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  #101  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:44 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
So it's because you dislike the Twilight's Hammer in particular. Why so?
They should have stayed a small mysterious and creepy faction who wanted the end of the world. Not a massive army capable of dealing huge blows to the factions.

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To me, it just seems as if some of Xil's ideas aren't accepted just on basis of being hers, and not because they are actually biased.
Im ready to accept her ideas when ill like them.

And @Smoke, when did I say she didn't have the right to express them?
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  #102  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:44 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Why doesn't Ralaar Fangfire work? I'm still sure the Night Elves would find some interest about this cursed form, and perhaps there could be more weight to why it's forbidden rather than just "Grrr I kill everything!"
Oh, I forgot he existed. If he was in the game itself and not killed off prior, he'd actually fit perfectly. So that works out. We don't even need to retcon Ivar, then!

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They should have stayed a small mysterious and creepy faction who wanted the end of the world. Not a massive army capable of dealing huge blows to the factions.
That more or less is what they are in Gilneas; what they pull off is the creation of the Twilight's Scythe overpack.
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  #103  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:45 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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If Forsaken aren't involved at all and there are other monstrosities that are a bigger threat to Gilneas, then there could be enough to fit some screen time for Ralaar.
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  #104  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:47 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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That more or less is what they are in Gilneas; what they pull off is the creation of the Twilight's Scythe overpack.
Still not liking it but whatever. We jst spent to much time fighting theses guys in general.
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  #105  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:48 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
If Forsaken aren't involved at all and there are other monstrosities that are a bigger threat to Gilneas, then there could be enough to fit some screen time for Ralaar.
Excellent, we have an accord.

Oddly, I can actually see, in this plotline, the Forsaken and worgen having a sort of kinship if they don't wind up fighting each other; Silverpine Forest in this version is heavily Twilight-focused as well, with the Hammer trying to target Forsaken for recruitment specifically because of the lack of direction that the fall of the Lich King might have left them with. I had in mind a version of Silverpine that would be relatively heavy on psychological themes, finding one's place in the world when seemingly severed from it, and ultimately a reaffirmation of loyalty to the Horde... a story that the worgen could well be involved with as well in their own way, elsewhere. I can see them finding a fair bit of common ground.

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Still not liking it but whatever. We jst spent to much time fighting theses guys in general.
I think the qiraji should come back. If there were enough survivors, them joining might make Twilight armies more plausible.
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  #106  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:48 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by WhinyAlly View Post
And @Smoke, when did I say she didn't have the right to express them?
I was talking about Fojar...
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  #107  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:50 AM
Pixy Pixy is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
I was talking about Fojar...
A person who has such biased views and ideas cannot say what constitutes a good arc.
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  #108  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:52 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
Excellent, we have an accord.

Oddly, I can actually see, in this plotline, the Forsaken and worgen having a sort of kinship if they don't wind up fighting each other; Silverpine Forest in this version is heavily Twilight-focused as well, with the Hammer trying to target Forsaken for recruitment specifically because of the lack of direction that the fall of the Lich King might have left them with. I had in mind a version of Silverpine that would be relatively heavy on psychological themes, finding one's place in the world when seemingly severed from it, and ultimately a reaffirmation of loyalty to the Horde... a story that the worgen could well be involved with as well in their own way, elsewhere. I can see them finding a fair bit of common ground.
Maybe, though I more prefer them to retain a sense of rivalry without it being as ridiculous as it is. (No one killing other people's important characters. *grumble grumble*)
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  #109  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:52 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
I was talking about Fojar...
Talked you talked to me since I was the one quoted. Sorry 'bout that.

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I think the qiraji should come back. If there were enough survivors, them joining might make Twilight armies more plausible.
That would make that Ahn'Qiraj zone useful I guess. But please, no more than one Twilight ambassador present when this happens. They should go back to the shadows they ruled over.
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  #110  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:53 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Maybe, though I more prefer them to retain a sense of rivalry without it being as ridiculous as it is. (No one killing other people's important characters. *grumble grumble*)
Fair enough. It'd probably vary, with rivalry between some and odd friendships between others (Lady Cozwynn meeting Lord Crowley... hmmm).

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That would make that Ahn'Qiraj zone useful I guess. But please, no more than one Twilight ambassador present when this happens. They should go back to the shadows they ruled over.
Perhaps the gaps can be filled by the Black Dragonflight, and possibly Blackrock orcs.
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  #111  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:00 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Perhaps the gaps can be filled by the Black Dragonflight, and possibly Blackrock orcs.
I like the Blackrocks joinging the Horde, and I feel the same about the Black Dragonflight as I do about the Twilight's Hammer. The are manipulators, not front line guys.

It should only be an ambassador with a totally credible and spooky name. Let's say the Hammer sends Ambassord Sorrowgrave to Emperor Vek'Larash, the new Quiraji ruler. This ambassador is not that much involved but it's heavily implied that he's the one who caused the Quiraji to attack again. And when they start losing, he suddently vanishes, as if he was never there.
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  #112  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:01 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by WhinyAlly View Post
I like the Blackrocks joinging the Horde, and I feel the same about the Black Dragonflight as I do about the Twilight's Hammer. The are manipulators, not front line guys.

It should only be an ambassador with a totally credible and spooky name. Let's say the Hammer sends Ambassord Sorrowgrave to Emperor Vek'Larash, the new Quiraji ruler. This ambassador is not that much involved but it's heavily implied that he's the one who caused the Quiraji to attack again. And when they start losing, he suddently vanishes, as if he was never there.
But the black drakonids and dragonspawn are less about manipulation than the actual dragons, and might be able to show up more often. And the Twilight's Hammer does need to show up often enough to be a credible threat in and of itself; it really no longer needs to hide when the Cataclysm is in full force. We should get to see more of their recruitment, however.

Also, since the Blackrock Clan is beholden to the Black Dragonflight, they're logical muscle here. Perhaps ironically alongside their former Dark Iron adversaries.
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  #113  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:17 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Well, that ended badly.
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  #114  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:18 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Well, that ended badly.
Fear not, we've recovered. And I won't continue the debate.
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  #115  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:27 AM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Personally I think retcons in general are stupid. Get it right the first time or GTFO.
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  #116  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:35 AM
EdWunclerIII EdWunclerIII is offline

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Amongst other things, probably the fucking cancer called the faction war.

If not that, than either the Forsaken joining the Horde or the revelation that the Eastern Kingdoms were mostly fine and dandy after WC3.

Last edited by EdWunclerIII; 08-06-2013 at 09:38 AM..
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  #117  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:35 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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I feel like I should have set some rules from the beginning... This basically turned into Worst Moments Thread 2.0.

Let's add them now:

1) You can change one piece of Warcraft lore, any piece. Here we classify a 'piece' as an event or a development (a character dying or going crazy, a faction taking over some region, a battle happening, a nation changing allegiances, someone's origins being changed, a race getting more aggressive or peaceful etc.)

2) You can't retcon a whole work out of existence (so just saying "WoW never happens" or "TOD novel is completely non-canon) is a no-no). However, you can retcon some pivotal moments of this work (the Second War lasted longer, the faction war never happened, Stormwind was destroyed by the demons, Forsaken never joined the Horde etc.)

3) You can retcon other retcons (like, "The Draenei retcon never happened, Eredar are a completely different race!")

4) If you've done some really AU retcon (like, "Lothar wasn't killed by Doomhammer"), please give us an overview of how at affected the rest of the timeline (for example, "The rest of the timeline goes as usual, but that goddamn Turalyon is out and Lothar leads the Alliance Expedition like a true SAC!")

5) Have fun and try not to flame the others!
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  #118  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:37 AM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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You people probably all know so instead ill leave this here

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Skids taps Megatron's Autobot badge.

Skids: Right. There. What does that badge even mean to you? How has wearing it forced you to modify your behaviour? I'm serious! How has being an Autobot in any way prevented you from doing exactly what you want? Because if the answer is "it hasn't"—then nothing you've said or done in the last six months counts for anything.
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  #119  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:40 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Would it have been more plausible if the Draenei origin had been changed from being uncorrupted Eredar, to instead have been corrupted Eredar that became repentant for their ways and redeemed by the Naaru?
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  #120  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:44 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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The other thing I would retcon is the existence of the factions at the start of WoW.
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  #121  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:47 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
I feel like I should have set some rules from the beginning... This basically turned into Worst Moments Thread 2.0.

Let's add them now:

1) You can change one piece of Warcraft lore, any piece. Here we classify a 'piece' as an event or a development (a character dying or going crazy, a faction taking over some region, a battle happening, a nation changing allegiances, someone's origins being changed, a race getting more aggressive or peaceful etc.)

2) You can't retcon a whole work out of existence (so just saying "WoW never happens" or "TOD novel is completely non-canon) is a no-no). However, you can retcon some pivotal moments of this work (the Second War lasted longer, the faction war never happened, Stormwind was destroyed by the demons, Forsaken never joined the Horde etc.)

3) You can retcon other retcons (like, "The Draenei retcon never happened, Eredar are a completely different race!")

4) If you've done some really AU retcon (like, "Lothar wasn't killed by Doomhammer"), please give us an overview of how at affected the rest of the timeline (for example, "The rest of the timeline goes as usual, but that goddamn Turalyon is out and Lothar leads the Alliance Expedition like a true SAC!")

5) Have fun and try not to flame the others!
I choose. . .

I choose. . .

During the Second War, the Horde had warships.



If I can only choose one of those, then the Troll Destroyer.
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  #122  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:00 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I choose. . .

I choose. . .

During the Second War, the Horde had warships.

Your choice is clear!

The Horde had warships constructed in Khaz Modan. However, they were still defeated by Daelin Proudmoore's fleet.
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  #123  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:00 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
The other thing I would retcon is the existence of the factions at the start of WoW.
I don't think that makes sense.

I get you mean player factions, but they'd still require a name for themselves in some form or another. Thrall set out to recreate the Horde in WC3 and that still has to be showcased, I don't see why Alliance can't exist as long as neither faction becomes overly aggressive towards each other again.
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  #124  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:01 AM
Andrettin Andrettin is offline

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I would retcon the later portrayal of Doomhammer. It would have made more sense if they portrayed him as a decent leader who cares for his people, but who will do dirty work if it gets things done. That would be much more fitting with him using Ogre-Mages and Death Knights in his horde, and it would have rendered unnecessary the retcon of Lothar's ambush becoming a duel between him and Doomhammer.
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  #125  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:05 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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If I could retcon a single thing with the Warcraft setting, it'd probably be to make this current iteration of the faction conflict never happen, because it's been the single most toxic thing to the setting's story, the factions' likability and enjoyability, and even what little bit of basic decency there was to be found in the game's community.

Even if the Troll fanboy in me would like to like to retcon Zul'jin's absolutely atrociously managed death in the most ignominious and asinine of circumstances.
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