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  #5126  
Old 08-19-2016, 03:54 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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But... the fossils!




If they're not related to ogres, which creature, do you think, is their closest relative?
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  #5127  
Old 08-19-2016, 04:09 PM
Ratatosk Ratatosk is offline

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My gut says earth giants but I'd like them not to be titanic just for some variety.

Drogbar perhaps!
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  #5128  
Old 08-19-2016, 04:12 PM
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My gut says earth giants but I'd like them not to be titanic just for some variety.

Drogbar perhaps!
Those were the two options I considered too.

It would be great if they, drogbar, goblins and pygmies were all relatives.
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  #5129  
Old 08-19-2016, 05:43 PM
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I really like the drogbar and hope they aren't just forgotten after 110. Though of course I know they will be
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  #5130  
Old 08-19-2016, 07:03 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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I'm thinking ettins might be the trogg equivalent for vrykul or giants. Especially with how "off" their shape and movements are. Their oddly asymmetrical head placement, incredibly long arms without proportionate muscular bulk, and species-wide "limping" gait just give me the vibe of a damaged attempt at creating large humanoids that didn't quite come out right.
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  #5131  
Old 08-20-2016, 12:23 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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(oddly Azuremyst doesn't suffer from this and it's p much ready to fly around)
I'd say the fairly obvious reason is because Silvermoon was built very early in BC's dev cycle, while Azuremyst was built much later. Which is supported by the knowledge that blood elves were developed as an expansion race much earlier than the draenei were.

To a great extent, making Quel'thalas a part of the Eastern Kingdoms instance feels like the bigger problem, simply because it's currently on the Outland instance and porting it over might be a non-trivial amount of work.

I don't think there's really any value delivered in making Azuremyst part of the Kalimdor instance. Having it be flyable is a nice novelty, but there's no there there. Silvermoon is a slightly different beast because there's clearly more to the city, but I don't like the idea of them fleshing out the city just to flesh it out, like they did with the surface of Lordaeron's capital.
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  #5132  
Old 08-20-2016, 12:39 AM
Melorandor Melorandor is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
But... the fossils!




If they're not related to ogres, which creature, do you think, is their closest relative?
I'm pretty sure Ettin are something Azerothian. Their faces look almost akin to Stone Giants in some ways, so I'm guessing they're Mountain Giants that lived east of Zin-Azshari and the Well that were afflicted with the Curse of Flesh.

Either that or - Portals from Draenor have been known to open up on Azeroth.

Last edited by Melorandor; 08-20-2016 at 12:44 AM..
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  #5133  
Old 08-20-2016, 01:43 AM
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But... the fossils!




If they're not related to ogres, which creature, do you think, is their closest relative?
Are there any other two-headed humanoids native to Azeroth?
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  #5134  
Old 08-20-2016, 05:24 AM
Ratatosk Ratatosk is offline

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Theradras cheated on Zaetar and ettin are the centaurs' half-siblings!
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  #5135  
Old 08-20-2016, 11:05 AM
Melorandor Melorandor is offline

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Are there any other two-headed humanoids native to Azeroth?
I would love to think rifts opening between Draenor and Azeroth been going for centuries. It could be that, a few Rifts opened up in the Eastern most section of Azeroth, causing an un-evolved off branch of Ogrekind pouring through said rifts, with the native populations giving them the name, Ettin. Ettin are known to show some shred of intelligence too.

Could be the Gronn - Ogron - Ettin - Ogres. Or aforementioned off branch.

I'm inclined to think the Ettin are Azerothian Curse of Flesh mutated Mountain Giants, namely because Ettin are found in Mountainous regions. Like Gilneas, Redridge and now Highmountain. They could've been the Eastern Kingdoms Mountain Giants whom suffered a terrible fate. Even more so to believe this, the Ettin's brow ridge looks similar to that of the Mountain Giants.

Plus. I believe there were a few Earth Elementals shown with two heads in Deepholm / Stonecore.

Last edited by Melorandor; 08-20-2016 at 11:12 AM..
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  #5136  
Old 08-21-2016, 04:14 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Reading Chronicles and it turns out that the Hozen betrayed the Jinyu to the Thunder King thinking they'll be treated better. That's the cause of their feud.

Jinyu got screwed out of an empire.
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  #5137  
Old 08-21-2016, 04:16 PM
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Reading Chronicles and it turns out that the Hozen betrayed the Jinyu to the Thunder King thinking they'll be treated better. That's the cause of their feud.

Jinyu got screwed out of an empire.
That's one hell of a long time to hold a grudge.
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  #5138  
Old 08-21-2016, 04:18 PM
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Ooking dookers.
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  #5139  
Old 08-21-2016, 04:23 PM
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hmm considering leaking free 163 pages of Chronicles.... Found it on a free comics site.
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  #5140  
Old 08-21-2016, 04:28 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
That's one hell of a long time to hold a grudge.
If you were cucked out of an empire and enslaved, I wouldn't blame you.
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  #5141  
Old 08-21-2016, 04:47 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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If you were cucked out of an empire and enslaved, I wouldn't blame you.
Dude, we're talking about something like 14000 years here. I think that's about the length of the entirety of human civilization. And that's not even going into the fact that hozen have like the quarter of the lifespan of a human. That's like if I held you accountable because your *deep breath* Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Gr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betrayed my Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandparents.

And that's actually a conservative number for the number of Greats. It assumes the average Hozen reproduces halfway through his life, and the average Jinyu around the age of thirty.

Also, given that that time period spans pretty much the entirety of human civilization, chances are 99% that my ancestors were backstabbed out of an empire somewhere during that time period.
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  #5142  
Old 08-21-2016, 04:58 PM
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It's probably not just a matter of a one-off grudge. It's likely that the incident established the first assumptions by the jinyu that hozen weren't trustworthy, and that perception was consistently backed up by the hozen continuing to be violently erratic and unpredictable maniacs to this day.

A hozen betrayal doesn't really strike me as some dark, sinister, calculated machination on their part. They're more likely to have made a spur-of-the-moment heel turn when they got scared by the mogu.

The Horde quests in the Jade Forest established that when someone bigger and badder kills their leaders, the hozen are pretty quick to panic and suck up to the victorious new guy to protect themselves. The mogu would probably assert dominance by killing stubborn leaders among the other races, so turning on the jinyu to appease the mogu wouldn't be some one-time precedent contrary to the usual attitudes of the hozen. It's just how the hozen generally operate.

Last edited by ARM3481; 08-21-2016 at 05:04 PM..
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  #5143  
Old 08-21-2016, 05:02 PM
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By the way, it's not just hozen that they've become unwilling to trust. The Alliance are the first faction, since the betrayal, that they've even given a chance.
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  #5144  
Old 08-21-2016, 05:12 PM
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By the way, it's not just hozen that they've become unwilling to trust. The Alliance are the first faction, since the betrayal, that they've even given a chance.
Not exactly. They allied with the other slave races during the revolt that overthrew the mogu (the pandaren, hozen, yaungol and grummles, that is; the saurok were still MIA since independently rebelling in Krasarang) and remained allied to the pandaren by way of providing new pandaren emperors with visions of the future and sharing associations with the pandaren monk orders via the Celestials and their temples.

Last edited by ARM3481; 08-21-2016 at 05:14 PM..
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  #5145  
Old 08-21-2016, 05:38 PM
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Not exactly. They allied with the other slave races during the revolt that overthrew the mogu (the pandaren, hozen, yaungol and grummles, that is; the saurok were still MIA since independently rebelling in Krasarang) and remained allied to the pandaren by way of providing new pandaren emperors with visions of the future and sharing associations with the pandaren monk orders via the Celestials and their temples.
I should probably have said that they're the only new faction. The pandaren they already knew from the time before their enslavement and were likely loosely allied with, so their trustworthiness was a known quantity. They also worked with the other races, but given that the pandaren were at the center of it all and coordinated the rebellion, it's not really like they had to interact much with the other races.

I've also got to wonder how close they and the pandaren actually are. The hozen don't really seem to be allies of the pandaren anymore, so why haven't the pandaren given the jinyu more aid, or why haven't the jinyu requested it? Could it be that the jinyu even distrust the pandaren and are unwilling to seek their aid, leading to the destruction of most of their villages?
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  #5146  
Old 08-21-2016, 05:47 PM
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I should probably have said that they're the only new faction. The pandaren they already knew from the time before their enslavement and were likely loosely allied with, so their trustworthiness was a known quantity. They also worked with the other races, but given that the pandaren were at the center of it all and coordinated the rebellion, it's not really like they had to interact much with the other races.

I've also got to wonder how close they and the pandaren actually are. The hozen don't really seem to be allies of the pandaren anymore, so why haven't the pandaren given the jinyu more aid, or why haven't the jinyu requested it? Could it be that the jinyu even distrust the pandaren and are unwilling to seek their aid, leading to the destruction of most of their villages?
Well, the jinyu villages that actually got destroyed were wrecked because of the resurgent sha, which was the same thing keeping the pandaren monk orders and Shado-pan occupied all over the continent at the same time through the mantid swarm, the rampaging yaungol and the eruptions of literal sha manifestations.
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Old 08-21-2016, 05:50 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Well, the jinyu villages that actually got destroyed were wrecked because of the resurgent sha, which was the same thing keeping the pandaren monk orders and Shado-pan occupied all over the continent at the same time through the mantid swarm, the rampaging yaungol and the eruptions of literal sha manifestations.
Don't the JF jinyu claim that theirs is one of the last villages left due to the hozen? That would mean that the sha just finished them off.
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Old 08-21-2016, 05:56 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Don't the JF jinyu claim that theirs is one of the last villages left due to the hozen? That would mean that the sha just finished them off.
It's honestly kind of hard to peg the timing on the other Jade Forest jinyu villages' destruction. Technically the Horde was showing up at the same time the Alliance did, and so were probably already egging the hozen on at the same time the Alliance showed up to help the jinyu.

Cho even notes that he's never seen the hozen and jinyu as worked up as they've been since the player factions showed up. When each faction ran into and began urging their respective native allies, it was as the other side was also meeting theirs and driving them to be even more aggressive. There was a general sense that the wrecked jinyu villages around Pearlfin were a result of things generally having gotten worse only recently - i.e. with the Alliance and Horde showing up and facilitating an escalation of the fighting from on-and-off raids and skirmishes to full-blown assaults meant to wipe out the other side.
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Old 08-21-2016, 06:07 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I've got to admit that I don't remember Pandaria half as well as I should, so you're probably right. You don't forget as easily.
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Old 08-21-2016, 06:19 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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The increased Hozen aggression doesn't seem to have anything to do with the horde. When the player first gets sent to Grookin' Hill, there's already jinyu captives referring to the alliance with the alliance, and one of the very earliest quests has you deal with alliance paratroopers deploying near the hozen village. That would indicate the alliance/jinyu questline happens before you even start the horde/hozen questline.
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