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  #76  
Old 05-14-2007, 08:32 AM
Vicious Vicious is offline

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Dude, even if the story of CoT´s situation seems to be something that came out of Satan´s cinnamon roll, it doesn´t make the actual gameplay and the environment of the instances bad, they were all pretty well made and were a nice experience, especially Old Hillsbrad with his easter eggs (It was fun to watch the little rotine they made for the town even if it was kinda cheap).

Don´t expect Blizzard to "fix" the storyline of the place it just because it´s story is crap, they would have fixed the Draenei storyline long ago instead of justifying it.


Like i said they wanted to make something cool out of the place and that´s what they did, like "Bad guys are messing with the timeline, go safe it, you bad ass hero!!"

You can complain and give out your opinion but that´s pretty much it, we´ve all done it before, we´ve been over this and it won´t go anywhere.

I know that Blizzard´s been whoring out her franchise since WoW came but i´m still trying to enjoy it as best as i can but it´s been pretty hard lately because the only thing we´ve been discussing lately is how this or that sucks.
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  #77  
Old 05-14-2007, 08:40 AM
Nephalim Nephalim is offline

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I know it's fun, it was a well done instance, but they didn't need to do it the way they did and because a cornerstone facet of it has been ignored, it IS bad. Like I said before, a fun, linear, story-driven instance doesn't demand that it be a story we've been told before.

I'm not expecting a fix, to this or any other of the gross oversights Blizzard has made lately, but if we all just start throwing up our hands, giving up, actually praising Blizzard for the lax job they've been doing, we are telling them that they can do it again and they will continue to get away with it.

If your fanbase was being solely negative for an extended period of time, wouldn't you start to think that maybe you should get your act together?
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  #78  
Old 05-14-2007, 02:41 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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I learned to accept alot of things with WoW and just hope that if they decied to make a Warcraft IV they can salvage something from it. Yes I'm pissed off that Illidan's, Kargath's, and Teron's storylines won't ever be continued now that we wtfpwnd them for phat lewt. But life goes on.

In the words of Teron himself "Hehehe....death....isn't so bad."
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  #79  
Old 05-14-2007, 03:40 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Illidan died by a character's hand.

Were Teron and Kargath's stories going to be continued if they weren't in BC anyway?
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  #80  
Old 05-14-2007, 04:25 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
Illidan died by a character's hand.

Were Teron and Kargath's stories going to be continued if they weren't in BC anyway?
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  #81  
Old 05-15-2007, 02:38 AM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
Illidan died by a character's hand.

Were Teron and Kargath's stories going to be continued if they weren't in BC anyway?
Well I'd rather have had Teron in Kharazan rather than Prince Big-in-the-pants waving his particular about at the top of the tower. The Dark Rider rumour was pretty awesome.

Overall I can't say I care all that much about how things turn out with Warcraft anymore. =P
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  #82  
Old 05-15-2007, 09:05 AM
Vicious Vicious is offline

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Quote:
Well I'd rather have had Teron in Kharazan rather than Prince Big-in-the-pants waving his particular about at the top of the tower. The Dark Rider rumour was pretty awesome.
AS much as i hated that "theory", it would make more sense than he just siding with Illidan out of nowhere.
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  #83  
Old 05-15-2007, 11:07 AM
Nephalim Nephalim is offline

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Ok, honestly the only major character kill I've been concerned with is Kael.

- Balnazzar's revelation and quickly subsequent death were a major plot point and I think was handled pretty well. Plus we had all thought he was dead anyway.
- Kel'Thuzad's probably not dead. I'm not going to claim that Montoy was a Scourge agent, but he's obviously not the Dawn's, and it would be a weird cliffhanger to just forget about.
- As much as I liked her, Vashj's character was kind of floundering. Basically if she were going to betray Illidan for Azshara, she would have already, and therefore she's largely characterized by her loyalty for him. For her to die in his service seems as fitting an end as any. I'm more concerned with exploring her past; her reasons for joining Illidan in the first place, and of course, what Azshara has to say about the whole thing, and we can still do this with her gone.
- Kargath we had already assumed dead, even though nothing had strictly indicated that. I was glad to see him again so they could formally resolve his story rather than just leave it the loose end it had been before.
- Teron Gorefiend I was admittedly a little disappointed in. I thought the way they brought him back was superb, and when I heard he was a boss in the Black Temple, I thought it was a little weird. For one thing, why is he there? Why would he be loyal to Illidan? And for another, to go through all the trouble of bringing him back the way they did just to immediately kill him in a lore-light encounter seemed weird.
- Illidan's return seemed fairly tacked on anyway, since I had grown accustomed to the fact that he was dead after Frozen Throne, and this is his first real appearance since. Yes the transition from there to here could have been handled better, but again, there wasn't a lot more for his character to do. He's rejected too many chances at redemption, I do think it was time to put the whole affair to bed.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again. There's not really any ideological difference between Arthas sending a dozen nameless ghouls to kill Uther than Nazgrel and Danath sending their forces against Kargath, or the Argent Dawn sending theirs against Kel'Thuzad. I don't see why the latter is somehow a disservice to them.
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  #84  
Old 05-15-2007, 11:25 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Because then their deaths have no... poetry.

Whether Arthas sent his ghouls to kill Uther or not, he was the one who made the final blow, to Uther's heart (metaphorical ) and his body. That's why I think it's cool that Maiev kills Illidan... even if their whole exchange afterwards is lame. (SHOW the fact that Maiev has no direction in her life now, Blizzard! Don't go "oh no, my life has no more meaning!! *Runs off a cliff*")
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  #85  
Old 05-15-2007, 12:59 PM
Nephalim Nephalim is offline

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First, Uther can die without Arthas ever seeing him.

Second, why does everyone seem to think that sticking a named character into the mix gives a villain's death more meaning? Take, for examples, Kel'Thuzad and Vashj. Previously, they had no nemeses. I suppose you could say Tyrande for Vashj (as per The Sundering's account) but that was a tad contrived and for her to come all the way to Outland when there's still tons to do in Azeroth is a bit off. However there are no characters with whom these two have ongoing feuds, save the vague generic crusades NPCs undertake against them, but they seem mostly directed at their entire organization than any specific ire against any specific person. Who could they throw into the encounter to suddenly make it poignant?

My point is everyone's up in arms that a team of "nobodies" killing these guys when teams of nobodies killed tons of people in Warcraft III. And if you're giving philosophical credit to the heroes who commanded them there, why are you neglecting to do so here?
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  #86  
Old 05-15-2007, 01:26 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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I dunno. To me it feels like if all they go is "NO. MY EVIL PLAN WAS SO PERFECT!" and then they die... that's kind of... pathetic. Especially with the characters we already have so much invested in.
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  #87  
Old 05-15-2007, 03:26 PM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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*Adventurer pulls off the mask of Saiden Dathrohan to reveal Balnazzar's head.*
Bal: And I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you meddling kids!


Difference between having generic fighters killing characters and us is... well.. we're hearty adventurers with various different standings with various different groups. We are more random mercenaries than anything.
It's not exactly the forces of the Sha'tar and Ashtongue Deathsworn or whatever making the final strike. It's an assosciation of guys Revered with the Argent Dawn or whatever, Friendly or god knows what with the Timbermaw, this and that with everything else... and you get my point. All of us with varying gear and from an RP standpoint different motives.
While with 'Arthas' ghouls' taking swipes at Uther for example, those were genuine forces of the Scourge under Arthas' command, not Ghoulish Campers out for some gear. Who also happen to have ties to some other subgroup or two.
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  #88  
Old 05-15-2007, 10:51 PM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

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We've all already debated this issue to death anyway, but I do have one thing to say, regarding the motivations of players.

When you say it does a character disservice to be killed by players who just want loot, you're ignoring a rather blatant fact. Warcraft III players aren't necessarily any more dedicated to the lore than WoW players. Plenty of people played through Reign of Chaos and sent their ghouls to kill Uther not for the glory of the Scourge but so they could see shit get killed in the ensuing cinematics.

Canonically, Illidan dies because Maiev, Akama, and their allies kill him. The motivations of individual players are entirely irrelevant to the lore.
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