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  #26  
Old 05-16-2007, 05:50 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
Well he had the book of Medivh for a while. He probably read a thing or two about how to do the spell...
He still was a shaman, he had no formal training in the arts arcane. Which is probably why it failed on him as it did. I'm not saying he was stupid or that he wasn't powerful, I'm saying that he was a divine spellcaster not an arcane one. It's like a warrior trying to tame a beast or call thunder.
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  #27  
Old 05-16-2007, 05:53 PM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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If he had had all the artefacts, he could have succeeded.

Alas, he did not.
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  #28  
Old 05-16-2007, 06:03 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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He still was a shaman, he had no formal training in the arts arcane. Which is probably why it failed on him as it did. I'm not saying he was stupid or that he wasn't powerful, I'm saying that he was a divine spellcaster not an arcane one. It's like a warrior trying to tame a beast or call thunder.
Gul'dan was a Shaman too.
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  #29  
Old 05-16-2007, 06:19 PM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Gul'dan was a Shaman too.
Gul'Dan was thought the warlock magics by Kil'Jaeden, while Ner'Zhul never recieved any teaching whatsoever about the use of The Arcane.
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  #30  
Old 05-16-2007, 07:25 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Could have been self-taught. :p
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  #31  
Old 05-16-2007, 07:31 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Could have been self-taught. :p
Give it up Aldrius, sheesh.
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  #32  
Old 05-16-2007, 08:26 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Why? When I can piece together half-bit pieces of evidence to make a somewhat convincing argument!!
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  #33  
Old 05-17-2007, 01:22 AM
FreeLancer FreeLancer is offline

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Ner'zhul did something right, because he did create working portals, even if they did tear apart Draenor and he was captured by Kil'jaedin.

And he was no simple shaman when Kil'jaedin contacted him. He was one of the most powerful shaman on Draenor.
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  #34  
Old 05-17-2007, 03:34 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Ner'zhul did something right, because he did create working portals, even if they did tear apart Draenor and he was captured by Kil'jaedin.

And he was no simple shaman when Kil'jaedin contacted him. He was one of the most powerful shaman on Draenor.
A) He had at least one of the powerful magic items he had to look for in Azeroth, which helped considerably.

B) You can be the best warrior in the world, but it doesn't help you open portals either.
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  #35  
Old 05-17-2007, 11:38 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Eh. I still say the spell failed not because Ner'zhul was a shaman. (Make sense of THAT. o_O) But because of the artifacts he was (or wasn't) using.
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  #36  
Old 05-17-2007, 02:21 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Eh. I still say the spell failed not because Ner'zhul was a shaman. (Make sense of THAT. o_O) But because of the artifacts he was (or wasn't) using.
So in effect you're saying that Malfurion can spill his blood on the ground and start chanting and then a demon will appear and automatically serve him right?

I'm not descrediting Ner'zhul, all I'm saying is that he wasn't a master of the arcane which no doubt helped destroy the world. Remember he only wanted one portal to open I think, I may be wrong on that one though.
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  #37  
Old 05-17-2007, 02:40 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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So in effect you're saying that Malfurion can spill his blood on the ground and start chanting and then a demon will appear and automatically serve him right?
He'd never do it, but if he researched it for a decade I think it'd be conceivable that he could do it. Ner'zhul was planning to make portals for quite a while.

I'm just saying I don't feel it's Blizzard's intent to say that he failed just because he was a Shaman.

He had gone insane. I don't think he knew what he wanted at that point. He just wanted to escape before Kil'jaeden came down to claim his head.
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  #38  
Old 05-17-2007, 04:00 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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I don't think he went insane, he seemed pretty in control of his senses when he left the other clans stranded. His own Captain asked him if they were going to wait on the others.
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  #39  
Old 05-17-2007, 06:07 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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You can be crazy and still seem sane.

And that bit you're referring to is from the non-official ending. =P
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  #40  
Old 05-17-2007, 06:10 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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You can be crazy and still seem sane.

And that bit you're referring to is from the non-official ending. =P
Until it's retconned, it's official.
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  #41  
Old 05-17-2007, 06:46 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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How about the fact that Ner'zhul didn't enter the portal on Azeroth? >_>;
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  #42  
Old 05-17-2007, 06:53 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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How about the fact that Ner'zhul didn't enter the portal on Azeroth? >_>;
What do you mean?
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  #43  
Old 05-17-2007, 07:07 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Wait... what are you talking about? I thought you were talking about the orc ending in Beyond the Dark Portal which didn't happen.
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  #44  
Old 05-17-2007, 07:35 PM
Nephalim Nephalim is offline

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Didn't it? Ner'zhul entered the portal, the Warsong was left in Azeroth. That's part of the Warcraft III continuity as well.
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  #45  
Old 05-17-2007, 07:36 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Yeah, but Ner'zhul's Shadowmoon Clan didn't enter the portal through Azeroth after crushing the Alliance's armies based around the portal. =S

Besides that, the interpretation of Ner'zhul's character has been pretty different since Beyond the Dark Portal.
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  #46  
Old 05-17-2007, 08:10 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
Yeah, but Ner'zhul's Shadowmoon Clan didn't enter the portal through Azeroth after crushing the Alliance's armies based around the portal. =S

Besides that, the interpretation of Ner'zhul's character has been pretty different since Beyond the Dark Portal.
What are you talking about? They never went back into Azeroth when the planet was bursting apart.
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  #47  
Old 05-17-2007, 08:33 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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...what were you talking about?

I'm so confused.
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  #48  
Old 05-17-2007, 09:58 PM
Nephalim Nephalim is offline

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Aldrius, according to the orc's ending of Beyond the Dark Portal, Ner'zhul's not going to Azeroth, he's entering one of the NEW portals he just created and leaving for worlds unknown. This remained in the continuity. But instead of reaching new worlds, he was captured by Kil'jaeden and got his makeover.

Until we learned that Khadgar and folks had remained in Draenor after its destruction, both endings of Beyond the Dark Portal were legitimate. After Ner'zhul succeeds and leaves Draenor, the planet starts to break apart and Khadgar closes the portal to save Azeroth. Both endings work in conjunction.

Is this clearing anything up?
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  #49  
Old 05-17-2007, 10:22 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Sure. I was just under the impression that the Orc ending wasn't canon, but if you guys consider it as such then that makes sense.
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  #50  
Old 05-18-2007, 12:43 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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There was always one particular part of BtDP that seemed a bit silly to me. Why exactly was Ner'zhul so keen on opening a bunch of portals at once, rather than just one? Already the first invasion had failed on just one world. So...how does the next best course of action become opening a multitude of portals and engaging in several invasions that could feasibly lead to wars on many fronts on planets the orcs know nothing about and against foes potentially even stronger than the Azerothian races?

Unless I've forgotten some other motivation behind it, it just seems colossally stupid, since even if escape from Draenor and Kil'Jaeden was one of his reasons all along, then it seems like one portal would have sufficed and wouldn't have required the effort and risk involved in opening as many as he did.
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