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  #51  
Old 05-16-2010, 08:38 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
Then tell us "guy x" told me to remove it, and depending on my opinion about him I'll be fine with the NDA or not.

If you weren't contacted by Blizzard, I wonder who made you take this decision. At least, you should inform the rest of the community better, just to avoid anyone feeling like if you sold us to some invisible man.

If we respect the one who asked you to do this, then why so much secrecy?
Lon, I respect you enough to be honest here, so take this as positively as possible. This is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard anyone write on this forum.

Our site policy should never, under any circumstance, be determined by a single outside individual's opinion, no matter their position in the world. If the President of the United States asked us to take down a thread I wouldn't unless it was an official order by the government. The point of this is that MMO and Blizzplanet took their leaks down because officials under the flag of Blizzard stated they needed to or consequences would ensue. At that point it's very obvious that continuing to break the NDA would only get us into a hell of a lot more trouble than a few months of silence. Whether or not people we respect asked us to drop the info, the Blizzard fansite community as a whole has to be aware of the status quo or their patron company will come down on them with a vengeance like any normal business would to protect their investments.

I know this is a change from years past, but frankly SoL wasn't (well) known to Blizz in that time and thus leaks here weren't going to get the site into any trouble. Now that we're on the radar we have to be a little bit wiser to the situation and act accordingly.
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  #52  
Old 05-16-2010, 08:42 AM
Zula Zula is offline

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Lon really, I am not happy with this either but you are really exageratting.
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  #53  
Old 05-16-2010, 09:22 AM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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I just fear this is only the start of a slippery slope, and reassurances to the contrary aren’t going to change that.
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  #54  
Old 05-16-2010, 10:32 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Originally Posted by Gurtogg_Bloodboil View Post
I just fear this is only the start of a slippery slope, and reassurances to the contrary aren’t going to change that.
We're not an official fansite, the slope you're talking about, where we can't speak our true minds for fear of reprisal, starts there. No in this case we're talking about keeping out of Blizzard's legal wrath, which is entirely based off of the NDA and related ToS agreements surrounding the alpha. Anything else, literally anything, is reasonable to discuss unless you're just spamming the forum.
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  #55  
Old 05-16-2010, 11:01 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Not only that, but I am NOT the only person who made this decision. I proposed this and waited for all admins to weigh in before I actually enacted it. Furthermore, I said I wasn't contacted by Blizzard, as a corporate entity. Interpret that as you will.
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  #56  
Old 05-17-2010, 09:46 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Seriously, I'm simply asking for who told you to do this.

If I consider that people deserves my respect, then I'll be completely ok with the new NDA.

If not, then things won't change for me an my whining .

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Lon, I respect you enough to be honest here, so take this as positively as possible. This is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard anyone write on this forum.
Ignorant? If accepting others' decisions without checking them is ignorance, then I'm an ignorant, yes. If letting others influence me and my freedom without me even asking for a real explained reason is ignorance, then yeah, I'm an ignorant.

A very big ignorant.

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Our site policy should never, under any circumstance, be determined by a single outside individual's opinion, no matter their position in the world. If the President of the United States asked us to take down a thread I wouldn't unless it was an official order by the government. The point of this is that MMO and Blizzplanet took their leaks down because officials under the flag of Blizzard stated they needed to or consequences would ensue. At that point it's very obvious that continuing to break the NDA would only get us into a hell of a lot more trouble than a few months of silence. Whether or not people we respect asked us to drop the info, the Blizzard fansite community as a whole has to be aware of the status quo or their patron company will come down on them with a vengeance like any normal business would to protect their investments.
Are you reading yourself?

Our site policy should never, under any circumstance, be determined by a single outside individual's opinion, no matter their position in the world.

Nice, so I guess your idea to write this NDA popped out of nowhere, and that when mysterious person asked you to apply it, you already had it in mind so no one influenced us. Awesome.

And please, don't compare MMO and Blizzplanet, news websites that receive thousand of visits, with Scrolls of Lore. Other minor websites, like Nihilum's, haven't been warned, and I don't think they will.

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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
I know this is a change from years past, but frankly SoL wasn't (well) known to Blizz in that time and thus leaks here weren't going to get the site into any trouble. Now that we're on the radar we have to be a little bit wiser to the situation and act accordingly.
I'm sick of the obsession with "being known by Blizzard". Seriously, give it up. They watch every single relevant site, it's not like we are their precious forum or something like that. We're not special to their eyes.

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Lon really, I am not happy with this either but you are really exageratting.
Gurtogg will answer you for me: I just fear this is only the start of a slippery slope.

I want things clear from the very first moment. I already had enough with the lack of impartiality that threatened to ban various members just because the mods didn't like them.
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  #57  
Old 05-17-2010, 09:59 AM
Warlock Warlock is offline

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Lon, seriously, give it a rest. Oma is not going to tell you who asked him. I do know who it was, and I respect their opinion on the matter. Take that as you will.

In any case, that was not the only reason for doing it. And it was just as much my decision as it was Omacron's. Honestly I don't even see why this is a big deal. You guys all know where to find this info already. In a month or so the alpha will be over and this won't even matter.

And yes, in the future I would like to be an official fansite. Frankly I haven't applied before because what are we? A glorified message board? There is no way they would accept us. And in that regard, the recent host move was not *only* because of the bandwidth issues with the last one.
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  #58  
Old 05-17-2010, 10:06 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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My personal bet is Medievaldragon asked him, just because their latest relationship, and the fact SoL is linked from Blizzplanet. He "used" him to go through SoL moderation and send his petition more clearly.

Medievaldragon is, probably, the only non-Blizzard that I really respect from out of SoL. He's too awesome and so cool with us I would probably accept it if he did ask us to. Also, the linking thing.

I'm distrustful for nature, and "someone I won't mention told me" sounds just like "I made up an imaginary someone to apply my decision" thing.

And, uh, aside from distrustful, I'm very curious, too xDDD.

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the recent host move was not *only* because of the bandwidth issues with the last one.
*Suspicious* .
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~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~
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  #59  
Old 05-17-2010, 10:11 AM
Warlock Warlock is offline

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Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
*Suspicious* .
To be *slightly* less cryptic - the site is currently built in PHP. I do not know PHP. We moved to a Windows .NET server. I code in .NET all the time for my job.
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  #60  
Old 05-17-2010, 10:15 AM
Zula Zula is offline

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Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
To be *slightly* less cryptic - the site is currently built in PHP. I do not know PHP. We moved to a Windows .NET server. I code in .NET all the time for my job.
So it means you can know work the code of the site? Interesting.
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  #61  
Old 05-17-2010, 10:22 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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I've always been concerned with people freely saying "I found this via sandbox," or the like on the forum, because like anyone who cares for their community I don't want to see people slapped with a suit or their accounts banned. I'm not saying it's likely to happen, just that people need to understand their actions, especially when trumpeted in public, can bring serious consequences. The fact that anyone suggested that we close off topics for discussion is ancillary to the fact that the expanded Blizzard community as a whole was already told to do so by the company itself.

And the reason I cite Blizz's knowledge of us is that, even if we're a minor speck on their radar, that still means we're on their radar and thus shouldn't antagonize them when there can be actual physical (legal or account) consequences.

Edit: Keithjr has been fixing most of the site's bugs, and doing a damn good job at it considering the time frame he's had.
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  #62  
Old 05-17-2010, 10:24 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Well, beta is coming soon, so I don't care too much.

Also, StarCraft II *drools*.

What I'm not ok with is that we can't discuss the rumors around .

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To be *slightly* less cryptic - the site is currently built in PHP. I do not know PHP. We moved to a Windows .NET server. I code in .NET all the time for my job.
That's great, man. You'll now be able to modify everything to your pleasure without having to call Keithjr and co. (say hi to confirm you're still alive, guys! ).

There's nothing more annoying to have to depend on others for everything, so I guess you'll feel more free and secure with future administration. And that's just great for everyone .
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Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter)

~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~

Last edited by Lon-ami; 05-17-2010 at 10:26 AM..
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  #63  
Old 05-17-2010, 10:58 AM
Joshmaul Joshmaul is offline

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Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
Well, beta is coming soon, so I don't care too much.
YAY! Hallelujah, praise Jesus, cookies for everyone - you have seen the light! Nah, just joshin' you. *wince* Ooh. That was a bad one.
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  #64  
Old 05-17-2010, 11:36 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Multiple people were involved in this decision, both side admins and people from outside of the site, some who are attached to powerful or important companies but they themselves are independent, and I also sought the advice of a legal professional.


It's not like someone told me to do this and I said "okay". I was researching the pros and cons about this pretty much as soon as MMO-champ put up the info.
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  #65  
Old 05-17-2010, 12:53 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Originally Posted by Joshmaul View Post
YAY! Hallelujah, praise Jesus, cookies for everyone - you have seen the light! Nah, just joshin' you. *wince* Ooh. That was a bad one.
It's not the NDA what I care most about, but the factors in the decision to apply it .

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Multiple people were involved in this decision, both side admins and people from outside of the site, some who are attached to powerful or important companies but they themselves are independent, and I also sought the advice of a legal professional.
What are you talking about? Tell what that people was and that's all. Don't play Spy-kid with me :S.
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Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter)

~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~
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  #66  
Old 05-17-2010, 01:34 PM
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What if the people he contacted want to remain anonymous? Don't they have the right to their privacy? From what I gather, nobody told Omacron to follow the NDA - he contacted a few people he trusts and, along with the other admins/mods, the decided that following the NDA was our best option given the info they received.

Hey, I'm not happy with losing some of our freedom of speech either, but you're really really making a storm in a glass of water.
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  #67  
Old 05-17-2010, 07:18 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
And yes, in the future I would like to be an official fansite. Frankly I haven't applied before because what are we? A glorified message board? There is no way they would accept us. And in that regard, the recent host move was not *only* because of the bandwidth issues with the last one.
I saw an "official fansite" which I believe just is about achievements.
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  #68  
Old 05-17-2010, 07:42 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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I saw an "official fansite" which I believe just is about achievements.
It's still far more informative and popular than a simple lore forum.
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  #69  
Old 05-18-2010, 01:23 PM
Rowan Seven Rowan Seven is offline

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Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
And yes, in the future I would like to be an official fansite. Frankly I haven't applied before because what are we? A glorified message board? There is no way they would accept us. And in that regard, the recent host move was not *only* because of the bandwidth issues with the last one.
Out of curiosity, what would you like to see added to Scrolls of Lore for it to "qualify" in your opinion as an official fansite? You already have a fairly thorough image gallery, and I think there are or were tentative plans for some "lore" articles or entries at one point.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowan Seven View Post
Out of curiosity, what would you like to see added to Scrolls of Lore for it to "qualify" in your opinion as an official fansite? You already have a fairly thorough image gallery, and I think there are or were tentative plans for some "lore" articles or entries at one point.
Yeah, when I Google "Scrolls of Lore" this pops up:

Scrolls of Lore features a massive library of WarCraft lore, from famous heroes to ancient legends.

And on the front page, it says:

Welcome to Scrolls of Lore. This site will soon feature a massive library of WarCraft lore. While we are still working to get the site ready, both the Gallery and Forums can be accessed from the bookmarks in the upper-right corner. In the coming months look for more content relating to the History of Azeroth, Legendary Heroes and Villians, and much more.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

Years.
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  #71  
Old 05-18-2010, 01:36 PM
SicilianNecktie SicilianNecktie is offline

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And don't forget that PMs are in no way restricted. If you want to talk about the lore of Cataclysm, you can do it through that. Oh, and you can avoid Rolandius derailing it.
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I'm giving you hope. Whether or not it's false hope is irrelevant.
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  #72  
Old 05-18-2010, 01:46 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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And don't forget that PMs are in no way restricted. If you want to talk about the lore of Cataclysm, you can do it through that. Oh, and you can avoid Rolandius derailing it.
Glorious. Now, who cares what I have to say...?
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

Years.
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  #73  
Old 05-18-2010, 03:47 PM
SicilianNecktie SicilianNecktie is offline

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Glorious. Now, who cares what I have to say...?
Yeah, I think it's been stuck that way for over a year. No idea if any progress has ever been made on it. Although, if we ever plan on becoming a fansite, I'm almost positive we'd need a lore library such as that.
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  #74  
Old 05-18-2010, 06:06 PM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
Yeah, when I Google "Scrolls of Lore" this pops up:

Scrolls of Lore features a massive library of WarCraft lore, from famous heroes to ancient legends.

And on the front page, it says:

Welcome to Scrolls of Lore. This site will soon feature a massive library of WarCraft lore. While we are still working to get the site ready, both the Gallery and Forums can be accessed from the bookmarks in the upper-right corner. In the coming months look for more content relating to the History of Azeroth, Legendary Heroes and Villians, and much more.
Pfffft, that's been up since 05.
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  #75  
Old 05-18-2010, 06:09 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Originally Posted by SicilianNecktie View Post
Yeah, I think it's been stuck that way for over a year. No idea if any progress has ever been made on it. Although, if we ever plan on becoming a fansite, I'm almost positive we'd need a lore library such as that.
Er... My last comment was me musing to myself about what specific people I might PM, but the comment worked regardless.

Here is an important question: If Scrolls of Lore were to add a library of Warcraft lore alongside its forums and image gallery, how would the library be run in order to not share the flaws of WoWWiki?
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

Years.
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