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Old 03-09-2011, 12:07 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Default J Allen Brack Interview

Little GDC interview with him. It seems originally the idea was for goblins to be on the Alliance and Worgen on the Horde.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...ew.html/page/1
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:22 PM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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Goblins and Gnomes on the same faction would be a bit redundant no?
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:22 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Little GDC interview with him. It seems originally the idea was for goblins to be on the Alliance and Worgen on the Horde.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...ew.html/page/1
No way LOL, that would be stupid as hell. Can't believe he ever thought of it >_<.

He must be lying, I can't believe he's that "off" from his own community.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:53 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Worgen are a race that has their own agenda? No. They are just edgy night elves.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:04 PM
Urth Urth is offline

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Goblins are dramatically different than Gnomes. Just because they are small and use technology does not make them equivalent.

Worgen... even I thought Worgen would've been a good fit on the Horde before we ever saw the Halloween masks. Of course, I was theorycrafting a situation wherein Scarlet Crusaders were bitten and then saved by Forsaken, and we'd end up with Worgen Paladins at the price of Worgen Warlocks. None of this Sunwalker business.

And while I am glad they made the choices they did, I am not surprised that "getting them there" was significantly easier for Goblins to the Horde. Having played a Goblin to level 35 now, I am shocked to admit that YES, "Horde" Goblins have an incredibly unbalanced presence with respect to Worgen. Yes, yes, Bilgewater Harbor is a bit obnoxious, but it's the questing hub for Azshara. You can't expect Sentinel Hill, Loch Modan, Blood Watch or Lor'Danel to be retrofit with all the Worgen class trainers and questgivers. Well, maybe Lor'Danel, as Genn could send his finest to assist in the reclamation of Darkshore...

And the depth to which Horde plays through un-instanced Gilneas is horrible. It was once thing when I understood it as a few fedex quests and more worgen killing, but you use the same Worgen quest hubs and even reach the capital and the southeast coast. I had hoped they could have fixed the Gilneas City Battleground idea, as a daily quest hub or even retrofit the zone for 85+ —but I can't see that kind of activity as compliant with little Hordes running all over the place.

How do you solve a problem like Gilneas, Brack?
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:09 PM
Nindoriel Nindoriel is offline

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
Worgen are a race that has their own agenda? No. They are just edgy night elves.
Actually, they're humans.

I can see the Worgen joining the Horde - if the Forsaken bonded with them instead of trying to annihilate them - yeah - they kind of share a similar fate. But Goblins in the Alliance, not really. Then on the other hand, there are always a bunch of goblins, that would join you if you offer them enough money.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:13 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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I could see worgen joining the Horde, yeah. But goblins and the Alliance? That just seems so...bizarre. They've always been Horde-leaning. Makes me curious as to what lore they'd come up with to work it.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:21 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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I do wonder that, if the Worgen were going to go Horde, if they would have been cursed humans, cursed orcs or cursed anything.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:22 PM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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Originally Posted by Arakiba View Post
I could see worgen joining the Horde, yeah. But goblins and the Alliance? That just seems so...bizarre. They've always been Horde-leaning. Makes me curious as to what lore they'd come up with to work it.
I don't remember where but I read that Goblins were planned as the the fourth Alliance race for vanilla, before they decided to go with Gnomes and Trolls.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:32 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Goblins are all over the Horde, from Gazlowe to the later Northrend mercenaries. Giving them to the Alliance wouldn't make any sense at all >_<.

Also, I doubt they didn't have gnomes in mind, when they date back to W2.
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~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:42 PM
Urth Urth is offline

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High Elves are all over the Alliance, and yet a bunch of them joined the Horde as Blood Elves. The precedent exists.

Goblins are a large enough population that they could support such a significant defection and not rock the boat.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:50 PM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
Goblins and Gnomes on the same faction would be a bit redundant no?
Agreed. Personally, I'm glad everything worked out the way it did though. It seems like there are no sympathetic survivalist factions in the Alliance lately, which is why Alliance players feel so apathetic to conflict with the Horde. The Alliance doesn't need another alliance of convenience. They need a noble cause or something to care about the conflict cause Varian's distrust of orcs just weren't cutting it.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:55 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Originally Posted by Urth View Post
High Elves are all over the Alliance, and yet a bunch of them joined the Horde as Blood Elves. The precedent exists.

Goblins are a large enough population that they could support such a significant defection and not rock the boat.
Yeah, because they're the same race and don't hate each other >_<.

And the population of high elves during vanilla was like, well, 20 in the entire world? there's no comparison.
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~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:01 PM
Urth Urth is offline

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How many vanilla Goblins are clearly affiliated with the Horde, and not seemingly Horde-leaning, as is the case with the Steamwheedle Cartel?

It's absolutely comparable. And the various Cartels should have ample reason to hate each other. With Helves v Belves, it was a philosophical schism. With Goblin Cartels, it's always about money.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:22 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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I suppose Worgen on the Horde could have worked, but I doubt Goblins on the Alliance would. Even to someone who's not interested that much in the lore, Goblins look and feel Horde-like. Would feel to alien to have them walking around with the Dwarves and Night Elves.
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:18 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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Yes, it was said somewhere (BlizzCon I think) that origianlly, Gnomes were not planned to be a race and Goblins were planned to be the fourth Alliance race.

I does not suprise me at all that Worgen were considered as a Horde race, originally. In all my ideas about Worgen pre-Cata, I saw them as a Horde race and in my WC4 idea, I imagined an alliance between Forsaken, Worgen and more evul Blood elves.

This was back when the Worgen looked reaaaaaallly scary in vanilla and not cuddly at all (though blizzard made them look a bit ferocious now too, the original model for the Cata Worgen looked like teddy bears lol)
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RobLore View Post
Yes, it was said somewhere (BlizzCon I think) that origianlly, Gnomes were not planned to be a race and Goblins were planned to be the fourth Alliance race.
I thought it was that the Gnomes and Trolls were not originally going to be races, but in the alpha stage they were added anyway and that's why they shared starting zones with the other races?
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:55 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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Yeah, but before they had the Gnome idea, they thought of Goblins.

Lol I cant even imagine all the neutral cities being Gnomish and Goblins living with Dwarves in Dun Morogh. xDDD But I guess the Gnomish story REALLY fits the Goblins too, with them blowing and radiating their whole city up.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:36 PM
SicilianNecktie SicilianNecktie is offline

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Goblinregan doesn't seem to have the same ring to it...
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:30 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
Goblins are all over the Horde, from Gazlowe to the later Northrend mercenaries. Giving them to the Alliance wouldn't make any sense at all >_<.

Yeah, because they're the same race and don't hate each other >_<.

And the population of high elves during vanilla was like, well, 20 in the entire world? there's no comparison.
Gazlowe isn’t on the Horde, he’s neutral. Alliance can walk right up to him and get quests. Also, you said it yourself about Northrend. “Mercenaries.” That means they were with them because they were paid to be.

As for the High Elves and Blood Elves, yes they’re the same race – only with minor anatomical differences that came about primarily as a result of their political decisions. There were also very few Blood Elves in the vanilla as well.

Regardless of that debate, “hating each other” means very little. It’s well established that there are different cartels amongst goblins, and many of them compete with each other in brutal fashion. Being of the same race doesn’t really mean anything.

Now do goblins fit better with the Horde, all things considered? Yes, absolutely. Horde is the better choice for them. But that doesn’t mean goblins on the alliance “wouldn’t make any sense at all.”

A cartel could easily have gone over to the alliance. I mean, just reverse the situation leaving the goblin starting zone. Horde forces sink the Bilgewater ship while they’re going after a captive Varian or Tyrande or whoever. Blam, goblins go alliance.
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:41 PM
Vaeku Vaeku is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I do wonder that, if the Worgen were going to go Horde, if they would have been cursed humans, cursed orcs or cursed anything.
Well, it was very strongly implied that most of the worgen in Silverpine were cursed humans (with the residents of Pyrewood), but I bet if they went Horde they probably would have just been worgen... Nothing cursed, maybe kept the connection to the Emerald Dream, but just plain worgen with no human stuff.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:34 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
Actually, they're humans.
The Gilnean humans are humans
The Gilnean worgen are night elf wannabes.

Look at their questgivers and text and what they are accomplishing for the Alliance. Whatever the night elves want (i.e. save the trees/stop the drilling/save the land) the Gilnean worgen want as well.

You can pretty much pull all of the worgen questgivers and replace them with night elves and you wouldn't need to replace the quest text, unless it mentions Gilnean, or "cursed"

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Old 03-09-2011, 11:03 PM
Silverfang Silverfang is offline

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Originally Posted by KLRMNKY View Post
The Gilnean humans are humans
The Gilnean worgen are night elf wannabes.

Look at their questgivers and text and what they are accomplishing for the Alliance. Whatever the night elves want (i.e. save the trees/stop the drilling/save the land) the Gilnean worgen want as well.

You can pretty much pull all of the worgen questgivers and replace them with night elves and you wouldn't need to replace the quest text, unless it mentions Gilnean, or "cursed"

well its to be expected the worgen are truly indebted to the night elves for saving them from there curse id be prtty grateful if someone gave me back my sanity.
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:41 AM
AndyJP AndyJP is offline

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I'm really interested to hear how Goblins in the Alliance would have worked. A lot of the reasoning of Worgen with the Horde probably had to do with them being so close to Undercity, it would have made a smoother leveling progression for them instead of having to ship them off to another continent.

I'm still not sure what makes the Worgen darker than Humans or what their agenda is other than getting their homes back. More top hats?
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:25 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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I'm really interested to hear how Goblins in the Alliance would have worked. A lot of the reasoning of Worgen with the Horde probably had to do with them being so close to Undercity, it would have made a smoother leveling progression for them instead of having to ship them off to another continent.

I'm still not sure what makes the Worgen darker than Humans or what their agenda is other than getting their homes back. More top hats?
Yea, much smoother and actually have the leveling balanced out

3 Horde on Kalimdor and 3 Horde on EK instead of the current 4 Horde on Kalimdor and 2 on EK.

The goblins would have probably gone to Kalimdor as well so you would have 3 Alliance races leveling on each continent just as they have now. Although I doubt that they would've have given them Ashara because of the close proximity to Orgrimmar.

Considering how the Worgen were hyped as the darker race for the Alliance and the fact that they are anything but, could it just be that Blizz was in such a hurry to get Cata out on Dec 7 that they decided to push all of the darker aspects of the Worgen off the table until they could get to it?

Wasn't the goblins finished first and the worgen last?

That would explain a lot considering all of the zones that weren't updated and things like the Alliance cutscene to the Twilight Highlands wasn't put in and such.
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