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Old 09-22-2010, 01:51 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Default Ascension of Garrosh Hellscream

Screenies ninjaed from MMO-Champ. Tis on the PTR, and with no voice acting (yet?):





I didn't see them around. Sorry if its already been posted. ^^;
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Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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Old 09-22-2010, 02:19 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Awesome. Very awesome .

Thanks a lot for sharing .
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Old 09-22-2010, 02:28 PM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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Here's what I don't get.

There are other faction leaders who have held positions of great responsibility for a very long time.

Why does Garrosh get dibs on Warchief in Thrall's absence?

Why was Vol'jin, Cairne, or even Theron not selected?

I can sort of get why Sylvanas wouldn't be a candidate at the moment... but the Orc favoritism should piss off a lot of the other Horde races, IMO.
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Old 09-22-2010, 02:36 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Here's what I don't get.

There are other faction leaders who have held positions of great responsibility for a very long time.

Why does Garrosh get dibs on Warchief in Thrall's absence?

Why was Vol'jin, Cairne, or even Theron not selected?

I can sort of get why Sylvanas wouldn't be a candidate at the moment... but the Orc favoritism should piss off a lot of the other Horde races, IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-WKYIgGBbU

Edit: This is very old afaik, and can have been changed. Again, I'm sorry if its been posted elsewhere.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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Old 09-22-2010, 02:58 PM
CaptFalcon CaptFalcon is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Here's what I don't get.

There are other faction leaders who have held positions of great responsibility for a very long time.

Why does Garrosh get dibs on Warchief in Thrall's absence?

Why was Vol'jin, Cairne, or even Theron not selected?

I can sort of get why Sylvanas wouldn't be a candidate at the moment... but the Orc favoritism should piss off a lot of the other Horde races, IMO.
Orcs need a war hero. Garrosh can be that hero. Also, Saurfangs knowledge is starting to rub off on him.

Thrall explains to Vol'Jin why he didn't pick him.

Cairne is too old.

Lor'Themar would turn the Horde into ultra fabulous warriors with designer armor and of course the latest hair styles. Barber shops would be put in every horde village, town, city, base, etc.
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:04 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Who'themar?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:35 PM
Drz Drz is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
There are other faction leaders who have held positions of great responsibility for a very long time.
Yes the great responsibility of being advisors to the ruler.
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Why does Garrosh get dibs on Warchief in Thrall's absence?
Because the Horde looks up to the war hero of Northrend. The Orc who led ther Horde againts the Undead.

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Why was Vol'jin,
Because the guy who took years to recapture few scattered islands surely knows how to handle these things.

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Cairne
Because the guy who for years fled from the Centaurs until the Orcs came along surely knows how to handle the invading forces of Alliance.

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or even Theron not selected?
Because the guy who managed to recapture Silvermoon after the help of Knaak's characters surely knows how to handle these things.

Quote:
the Orc favoritism should piss off a lot of the other Horde races, IMO.
Troll: How dare they get a Orc who has accomplished so much become the Warchief!!!! Vol'jin for years has held the Brewfestival and took years to capture our homes! He surely knows what to do!!!!

Yeah......
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:40 PM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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Soooo.... basically, you guys agree that all the Horde races suck, and should just be the bitches of their Orc masters.


Got it. Sorry I asked.
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:42 PM
Drz Drz is offline

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The other races haven't really accomplished anything if it wasn't for Thrall's Horde to begin with, so yeah. :p Sylvanas is the only other faction leader who managed things by herself. Trolls, Blood Elves and Tauren have been underdogs that the Horde has helped out.
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:45 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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Could be that the Orcs make up such a big chunk of the Horde army that their leader pretty much gets to be Warchief automatically, since they control the majority of the Horde's forces regardless of whether they have the title or not.
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:21 PM
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The way the Horde is structured, it seems other states (Tauren tribes, Quel'thalas, Lordaeron, Echo Islands, and possibly some semi-independent orc clans like the Mag'har and Dragonmaw) are all directly under the Orcish state of Orgrimmar. The Warchief is the definite leader of BOTH the Horde in totality and the Orcish state in specific. As such, to be the Warchief you probably have to be a citizen of the Orc state. Putting, say, Cairne on the throne would be like electing a Puerto Rican citizen (as opposed to an American citizen with Puerto Rican ethnicity) as President of the US. Now, are there tauren, trolls and possibly goblins as citizens of the orcish state? Probably. But look how long it took Americans to elect a non-white to the presidency.
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:29 PM
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The way the Horde is structured, it seems other states (Tauren tribes, Quel'thalas, Lordaeron, Echo Islands, and possibly some semi-independent orc clans like the Mag'har and Dragonmaw) are all directly under the Orcish state of Orgrimmar. The Warchief is the definite leader of BOTH the Horde in totality and the Orcish state in specific. As such, to be the Warchief you probably have to be a citizen of the Orc state. Putting, say, Cairne on the throne would be like electing a Puerto Rican citizen (as opposed to an American citizen with Puerto Rican ethnicity) as President of the US. Now, are there tauren, trolls and possibly goblins as citizens of the orcish state? Probably. But look how long it took Americans to elect a non-white to the presidency.
So, what you're saying is Cairne being made Warchief would be like a Kenyan immigrant being elected President of the United States?
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Drz View Post
--Incoherent ramblings about other leaders "not being good enough"--
Because the guy that spent most of his life whining and crying about who he thought his dad was surely knows how to handle things?

The guy whose armies would've been massacred if it wasn't for Varok going behind his back to help surely knows how to handle things.

The guy who ends up pissing off every other racial leader of 'his' Horde surely knows how to handle things.

"You will have advisors: Cairne, Eitrigg and Vol'jin will help guide you" Dead, off to Searing Gorge and incredibly pissed off, he really is on a roll here, with probably his last advisor(sauranok) ending up being a traitor...


So the guy who barely managed to have his troops survive under his leadership in Northrend, who decided it was a good idea to attack the guys that were fighting a common enemy, who appointed tyrans as leaders,... he sure knows how to handle things...
Northrend would've been a complete and utter failure if the members of the Horde had done exactly what Garrosh and his generals wanted.



Anyways, we got enough stuff against Garrosh to last a lifetime, so... I have to ask, why on earth is the whole of the Alliance leaders at their random meeting about earthquakes, yet the passing of the Warchief title is only seen by a handful of people, with only 1 other racial leader being present? Do only orcs have a say in the Horde, when the most important meeting that the Horde has had for years, has 3 orcs present and 1 troll, leaving a whole part of the Horde in the dark about the guy who's going to command their armies.

I'm surprised they dug out Eitrigg to be the 3rd guy, you'ld figure they'd ask the guy whose been stuck with Garrosh for the last 2 years or so. Or atleast mention Saurfang as one of the advisors... The lack of talking about him makes me fear he might've bitten the dust.
I know his son died, which is really sad for him, but even if he's in a depression for months, he can still be done mourning by the time Cataclysm hits. Considering it would be weird that the events on top of ICC happen only a few weeks before the cataclysm, one would assume that they've already taken place lorewise, meaning Varok's gotten a lot of time to bury his son and mourn his death. Perhaps he could even use those experiences to fight for a better world or something.
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:52 PM
Drz Drz is offline

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Because the guy that spent most of his life whining and crying about who he thought his dad was surely knows how to handle things?
Garrosh spent his youth fightning under the Mag'har with Grandmother Geyah's leadership. How do you think Garrosh knows how to fight? He & Saurfang jr fought Ogres, Broken Ones among other threaths. Garrosh become unsecure when Grandmother Geyah fell ill, which isn't years or anything.

Quote:
The guy whose armies would've been massacred if it wasn't for Varok going behind his back to help surely knows how to handle things.
See thats where you're wrong, but it's okay that you decide to ignore the lore simply because you find Garrosh as a whiner. It's quite common here, as rare as common sense actually is. Here lets see what Varok Saurfang has to say about Garrosh:

Quote:
<name>,

If you are reading this letter then you are alive and in one piece - or at least you still have your eyes.

I must apologize for the secrecy. Agmar demands that all mail is read before delivery - too many traitors and thieves there, as the wanted poster no doubt displays. There are delicate matters herein that could easily be misconstrued by the new guard.

For a soldier of the Horde, loss is absolute. Loss means death and there is no negotiation or interpretation with death. One can only hope that the manner of their death was honorable.But victory... Victory can mean many things. As you have probably noticed, the Kor'kron are there in full force. The Warchief has sent his elite guard to help secure victory in Northrend. They, along with you and other heroes, are pushing the Lich King and his forces towards an inevitable conclusion. With each challenge you overcome, we are one step closer to ridding our world of Arthas and the Scourge.

And therein lays the dilemma. For you see, our forces in Northrend work under the auspices of young Hellscream. Each victory bolsters the morale of the Horde forces here, which carries through to the rest of Azeroth.It is unfortunate, then, that Hellscream employs such savage tactics. As victory approaches, Hellscream gains further justification for his methods, which in turn brings us closer to a place we have not been in many years: a dark place.

I have sent my son to command our forces at the Wrathgate. I know that he will battle with honor and I remain hopeful that his courage and tenacity will be noticed and emulated by our forces. He is my heart and strength in a place that I cannot be... You will be my eyes and ears. Together, we will make it right.

Blood and Thunder... May your arrival bring them both.

Saurfang
As you can see Saurfang tells you, the very player that Garrosh' savage tactics are working and the Kor'Kron are on their full power, but ofcourse you probbaly ignored Saurfang's letter and just wanted your phawt loot. It's okay Reyson, i can forgive you.
Quote:
The guy who ends up pissing off every other racial leader of 'his' Horde surely knows how to handle things.
Vol'jin since Cataclysm has been shown as overdramatic little bitch. Sylvanas is a selffish power mad lietunant whom both Thrall and Garrosh are way too kind. Thrall and Garrosh both need to learn from Doomhammer's mistakes that *dangerous lietunants* must be killed off.

Quote:
"You will have advisors: Cairne, Eitrigg and Vol'jin will help guide you" Dead, off to Searing Gorge and incredibly pissed off, he really is on a roll here, with probably his last advisor(sauranok) ending up being a traitor...
Man i'm sure Thrall wouldn't regard Eitrigg that highly if he learned the shocking truth about Eitrigg's 3rd son. :p
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So the guy who barely managed to have his troops survive under his leadership in Northrend
Interesting where in the lore has it been said the Horde barely survived? Thrall certainly seems to be unaware of this, so whats your source?

,
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who decided it was a good idea to attack the guys that were fighting a common enemy
That was actually Korm Blackscar, but hey it seems you're clearly ignoring the lore here. You really shouldn't do that in Scrolls of Lore, bad reputation. ;(

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who appointed tyrans as leaders
Krenna? Yeah she went overboard, but she was taken care of. She didn't get to do that huge damage as someone like Varimathras did, so i don't see what your huge argument here is. :p


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... he sure knows how to handle things...
Yes and it has been shown on Cataclysm. Surely you must have read the beta threads, since you are responding to this one too while we're at it.

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Northrend would've been a complete and utter failure if the members of the Horde had done exactly what Garrosh and his generals wanted.
Oh can you actually prove this?
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:54 PM
Orifiel Whitedeer Orifiel Whitedeer is offline

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Thanks for posting this!

Although I hate Garrosh, with a passion. He's no Thrall or even Grom. I personally can't wait to kill him
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:56 PM
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Interesting where in the lore has it been said the Horde barely survived? Thrall certainly seems to be unaware of this, so whats your source?
Everyone only survived because of Dues Ex Machina.
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:02 PM
Orifiel Whitedeer Orifiel Whitedeer is offline

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Everyone only survived because of Dues Ex Machina.
So let me get this straight... you joined a celibate order to...get chicks?
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:08 PM
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So let me get this straight... you joined a celibate order to...get chicks?
People want what they can't have.
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:19 PM
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Reading the letter Drz posted I really can't say I get the impression that Saurfang is endorsing Garrosh for Warchief. Quite the opposite in fact.

That being said there really aren't any better candidates, which says something about the Horde's leadership beyond Thrall.

Cairne comes the closest but he's an old man.

If Sylvanas wasn't bat-shit insane and genocidal she'd be the correct choice, she's got experience and she's got brains (usually) and unlike Garrosh she almost never blows her top. I get the impression from Garrosh that he'd be on a victory parade through Orgrimmar and one voice in the crowd would heckle him and he'd stop the parade and proceed to run through the crowd in search of the heckler while his attendants shuffle awkwardly and wait for the incident to pass. But that being said...Sylvanas is bat-shit insane and genocidal.
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:22 PM
Drz Drz is offline

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Reading the letter Drz posted I really can't say I get the impression that Saurfang is endorsing Garrosh for Warchief. Quite the opposite in fact.
Yeah because he thought Garrosh would go all old-school Horde, but we know Garrosh learned honor.

Quote:
If Sylvanas wasn't bat-shit insane and genocidal she'd be the correct choice, she's got experience and she's got brains (usually) and unlike Garrosh she almost never blows her top. I get the impression from Garrosh that he'd be on a victory parade through Orgrimmar and one voice in the crowd would heckle him and he'd stop the parade and proceed to run through the crowd in search of the heckler while his attendants shuffle awkwardly and wait for the incident to pass.
You just saw an screenshot that show Garrosh caring what the civillians would think if they just massacred all potential cultist subjects. C'mon now. Uncool move there. :p
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:25 PM
Thekar Thekar is offline

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Yeah because he thought Garrosh would go all old-school Horde, but we know Garrosh learned honor.



You just saw an screenshot that show Garrosh caring what the civillians would think if they just massacred all potential cultist subjects. C'mon now. Uncool move there. :p
Yeah but you never know how someone will react until you throw a shoe at them and call them a dick during their moment of triumph.
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:42 PM
CaptFalcon CaptFalcon is offline

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"I spent a very long time in Northrend, Krom'gar. I learned much about the Horde at that time. While there, a wise old war hero (Saurfang) told me something that I would carry with me forever... "Honor," Krom'gar, "No matter how dire the battle... Never forsake it."
- Garrosh "Get off my ship!" Hellscream

This is before he goes "YOU ARE DISMISSED!" on Krom'Gar's ass.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:24 PM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Seriously dudes, SoL's already been through this argument weeks ago.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:01 PM
Rowan Seven Rowan Seven is offline

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Seriously dudes, SoL's already been through this argument weeks ago.
And weeks before that too.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:28 PM
Themiskan Themiskan is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Here's what I don't get.

There are other faction leaders who have held positions of great responsibility for a very long time.

Why does Garrosh get dibs on Warchief in Thrall's absence?

Why was Vol'jin, Cairne, or even Theron not selected?

I can sort of get why Sylvanas wouldn't be a candidate at the moment... but the Orc favoritism should piss off a lot of the other Horde races, IMO.
In my opinion, Lor'thremar is too close to Sylvanas to be trusted, she obviously is on probation, Cairne is just too old and is likely already having trouble with the Grimtotems. When it comes to Vol'jin he'd clearly be the most logical choice, but Thrall may not want to appoint him because of the reconstruction of the Echo Isles, it would spread Vol'jin out too far.
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