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  #14176  
Old 10-25-2017, 04:56 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Wildhammer and Dark Iron are as much of a subrace as Grimtotem are a subrace of tauren or the difference between a Frostwolf and Shadowmoon orc. Things that are nothing more than something like tattoos would likely just be more customization. 'Sub race' is probably the wrong word to use if the Nightborne and other stuff ends up as being next expansion stuff. 'Alternate races' would be a better term.
Subrace is just a popular rule/gameplay term, I don't use it expecting to be biologically accurate. You can call them alt-races, alternative races, tribes, clans, whatever. The point of dividing them apart from "standard" race is just to separate the options associated with them (class availability, skins, faces and such).

Maybe in the end Blizzard does not even use "subrace", but a term that varies by race. Like, you choose "Dwarf" or "Orc", and you can then select "Clan". You choose "Troll", then can select "Tribe" (Darkspear, rather than Jungle Troll; Revantusk, rather than "Forest Troll") and so on.
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Old 10-25-2017, 05:30 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Jesus fucking christ you guys are fucking retarded. Why the fuck are you discussing fucking toe nails.
  #14178  
Old 10-25-2017, 06:20 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Subrace is just a popular rule/gameplay term, I don't use it expecting to be biologically accurate. You can call them alt-races, alternative races, tribes, clans, whatever. The point of dividing them apart from "standard" race is just to separate the options associated with them (class availability, skins, faces and such).

Maybe in the end Blizzard does not even use "subrace", but a term that varies by race. Like, you choose "Dwarf" or "Orc", and you can then select "Clan". You choose "Troll", then can select "Tribe" (Darkspear, rather than Jungle Troll; Revantusk, rather than "Forest Troll") and so on.
That sounds interesting but I doubt we'll see anything with that much customization.
  #14179  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:01 PM
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Jesus fucking christ you guys are fucking retarded. Why the fuck are you discussing fucking toe nails.
Gurzog, this is your first warning.
  #14180  
Old 10-26-2017, 03:35 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
That sounds interesting but I doubt we'll see anything with that much customization.
I wouldn't*. First of all, if we were to get alt-groups/sub-races/whatever as an expansion selling point in the place of your standard new races/classes, it couldn't be just some additional customization options, it would have to be something more impactful.

Second, this is Blizzard we are speaking of. They never use such things just like that, they utilize them to make something "grandeur". Which is why we do not have half these things (Mag'har skins, Wildhammer tattoos, Grimtotem skins) already, they specifically said in the past that they would like to add them in a meaningful way. Which in Blizzard's vocabulary often means blow it out of proportion and make it an expansion's selling point.

*Although it depends on what you mean with that much customization. Something I could see within the realms of possibility is, as it probably wouldn't take much more time and resources as making two completely new races together with starting zones and such;

1) An alt-group for each existing race (except perhaps the Pandaren), but no new or unique models, everything using pre-existing player models.
2) A starting experience somewhat longer than intro mini-zones (Northshire, Anvilmar), but not so long as whole 1-10 zones, utilizing pre-existing spaces instead of creating new ones completely. So, for example, the Nightborne experience would happen in a phased Suramar, not in a completely new place.
3) New voices (I don't think that would take Blizzard that much effort).

However, the moment you start expecting something like unique models, new models, completely new zones, whatever else, yes, this gets completely outside the realms of possibility.

PS: Not saying this will happen.
  #14181  
Old 10-26-2017, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
I wouldn't*. First of all, if we were to get alt-groups/sub-races/whatever as an expansion selling point in the place of your standard new races/classes, it couldn't be just some additional customization options, it would have to be something more impactful.

Second, this is Blizzard we are speaking of. They never use such things just like that, they utilize them to make something "grandeur". Which is why we do not have half these things (Mag'har skins, Wildhammer tattoos, Grimtotem skins) already, they specifically said in the past that they would like to add them in a meaningful way. Which in Blizzard's vocabulary often means blow it out of proportion and make it an expansion's selling point.

*Although it depends on what you mean with that much customization. Something I could see within the realms of possibility is, as it probably wouldn't take much more time and resources as making two completely new races together with starting zones and such;

1) An alt-group for each existing race (except perhaps the Pandaren), but no new or unique models, everything using pre-existing player models.
2) A starting experience somewhat longer than intro mini-zones (Northshire, Anvilmar), but not so long as whole 1-10 zones, utilizing pre-existing spaces instead of creating new ones completely. So, for example, the Nightborne experience would happen in a phased Suramar, not in a completely new place.
3) New voices (I don't think that would take Blizzard that much effort).

However, the moment you start expecting something like unique models, new models, completely new zones, whatever else, yes, this gets completely outside the realms of possibility.

PS: Not saying this will happen.
This is what I've been saying all along. They said in the past few years that they'd do it in an "awesome way", so I expect them to not do it half-assed. If it ends bad, it's because they will overdo it instead.

I don't expect any new models, but I do think they may go the extra mile of providing a few heavily altered ones (I'll wager broken and forest troll).

As for starting zones, I think that, instead of making a ton ot new mini-start areas, they should just revamp the existing start areas and put the sub-whatevers with the "parent" race, using the revamped story to explain why they are there and integrating them with the parent race. Example: nightborne start in a diplomatic mission at Sunstrider Island, and over the course of it and Eversong, we see how the blood elves and nightborne have stablished diplomatic relations.

This would cut the cost of making several introduction zones for races with more than one sub-group, while also updating the parent race current status. This could also double as the pre-expansion event.

Will they do it? We will find out in 8 days.
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  #14182  
Old 10-26-2017, 06:36 AM
Sakurako Sakurako is offline

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hey friendos is there anywhere I can go to read a summery of what happens in the new raid? please and thanks you<3
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  #14183  
Old 10-26-2017, 06:46 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Originally Posted by Sakurako View Post
hey friendos is there anywhere I can go to read a summery of what happens in the new raid? please and thanks you<3
Do you mean Tomb or Antorus?
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  #14184  
Old 10-26-2017, 06:56 AM
Sakurako Sakurako is offline

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Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
Do you mean Tomb or Antorus?
Antorus
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Sylvanas shook her head. Her locks had been pale blond in life, but appeared to be silver, and now they looked almost as white as her sisters. They were the moons, Alleria had teased, calling them Lady Moon and Little Moon, while she and Lirath the eldest and the youngest were the suns of the family, with their bright golden tresses. Alleria .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJe--CGatg
  #14185  
Old 10-26-2017, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I don't expect any new models, but I do think they may go the extra mile of providing a few heavily altered ones (I'll wager broken and forest troll.
I seem to remember that the broken use the female tauren model, but do the forest trolls share a model with anything else?
  #14186  
Old 10-26-2017, 08:07 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I seem to remember that the broken use the female tauren model, but do the forest trolls share a model with anything else?
They've been making updates to the broken
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  #14187  
Old 10-26-2017, 08:20 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Originally Posted by Sakurako View Post
Antorus
Nobody's seen the ending cutscene yet so nobody knows what comes out of it.
The individual encounters have their flavour text and voice acting already datamined or in the actual game, so it's easy to look up.
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  #14188  
Old 10-26-2017, 08:26 AM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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I'm really hoping if the Subraces are true that the rumors that 8.0 will have another Cataclysm-like revamp are also true. It'd be the best time to really add one. After Legion invasions, and if subraces coming, not only would the world be drastically different, but it gives the subraces a chance to be involved in the story of their parent races.

Aside from that we really just need another revamp. The Cataclysm story probably wasn't the best point, since it kicked off a war, and that specific war has long since ended.

Other than that I'd also like if Bronze Flight NPCs introduced us to older expansion content from now on. It'd feel like less of a disconnect. It'd also help explain subraces in older expansion content either as a, 'People will see you as your parent race,' or a, 'No one will remember this anyways since you won't change anything.'
  #14189  
Old 10-26-2017, 08:32 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
I seem to remember that the broken use the female tauren model, but do the forest trolls share a model with anything else?
Original TBC Broken models were based on Tauren models with custom heads. If you use the Mark of the Ashtongue toy to turn into a broken, you'll notice their animations (including dance) and laugh sound files are the same as tauren's.

There's an unfinished female broken model in the files that use female tauren's, but headless.

Argus Broken models are based on standard Draenei's, however. The fact that they went the extra mile of redoing the model, instead of just updating the old one, makes me hopeful that these new models may be prototypes for playable ones. Unlike the old Broken model, the new ones can't equip gear, thought.

They could use the new Broken model as a prototype for a playable broken. Even the head animations are ready (you can see two of them "talking" in the Krokuun base, and the Argussian Caste quartermaster also react to your clicks), thought there are a few things that need fixing. A female Broken model could be based on female draenei as well.

As for trolls: TBC forest trolls and WotLK Ice Trolls are based on playable troll models. Their body proportions are warped so they appear buffier, and their heads are also changed (Forest Trolls and Ice Trolls have essentially the same body, but different heads; and ice trolls have better skin textures as well). They have animations (including dance) based on playable trolls.

I could see Blizzard taking the updated playable troll models and using them as a base to make new forest (maybe even ice) troll models.
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Last edited by Deicide; 10-26-2017 at 08:38 AM..
  #14190  
Old 10-26-2017, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Sakurako View Post
Antorus
Well the raid's not out yet, but we know it ends with Sargeras striking out at Azeroth but then imprisoned by the Pantheon before he can do anything more than stab Silithus (destroying the whole zone and causing Azeroth's blood to flow out), then Illidan becoming his warden.
  #14191  
Old 10-26-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
Well the raid's not out yet, but we know it ends with Sargeras striking out at Azeroth but then imprisoned by the Pantheon before he can do anything more than stab Silithus (destroying the whole zone and causing Azeroth's blood to flow out), then Illidan becoming his warden.
I thought the pantheon was dead? Also Irony of Illidan becoming a warden lol but cool that was what I was looking for thank you Astreisk!!
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Sylvanas shook her head. Her locks had been pale blond in life, but appeared to be silver, and now they looked almost as white as her sisters. They were the moons, Alleria had teased, calling them Lady Moon and Little Moon, while she and Lirath the eldest and the youngest were the suns of the family, with their bright golden tresses. Alleria .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJe--CGatg
  #14192  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Sakurako View Post
I thought the pantheon was dead? Also Irony of Illidan becoming a warden lol but cool that was what I was looking for thank you Astreisk!!
Their avatars were destroyed, but their spirits persisted. And apparently Sargy has been corrupting some and we fight some, free others during Antorus.
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  #14193  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Sakurako View Post
I thought the pantheon was dead? Also Irony of Illidan becoming a warden lol but cool that was what I was looking for thank you Astreisk!!
Their bodies were destroyed but their spirits still exist. On Argus Sargeras is trying to torture and brainwash them and put them into Avatars under the control of his Legion. He already succeeded with Aggramar whose avatar is the semifinal boss of the raid, he's trying to capture Eonar and a boss fight is protecting her soul, and the others' souls are actively being tortured by the shivarra boss.

And the last boss of the raid is the world-soul of Argus, which has been tortured by the Legion for thousands and thousands of years and its power allows them to resurrect on the planet Argus, even though they should be dying permanently because it's inside the Nether.

Last edited by Asterisk; 10-26-2017 at 10:21 AM..
  #14194  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:42 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Originally Posted by Sakurako View Post
Antorus
we kill demons and stuff and then we redeem by killing aggramars avatar, and then we kill/redeem argus and then the titans uses the power of love and friendship and rainbows to imprison sargeras.

Sargeras Stabs azeroth, but it barely does any more damage than the cataclysm (deathwing did more damage than him)
  #14195  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:16 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
This is what I've been saying all along. They said in the past few years that they'd do it in an "awesome way", so I expect them to not do it half-assed. If it ends bad, it's because they will overdo it instead.

I don't expect any new models, but I do think they may go the extra mile of providing a few heavily altered ones (I'll wager broken and forest troll).

As for starting zones, I think that, instead of making a ton ot new mini-start areas, they should just revamp the existing start areas and put the sub-whatevers with the "parent" race, using the revamped story to explain why they are there and integrating them with the parent race. Example: nightborne start in a diplomatic mission at Sunstrider Island, and over the course of it and Eversong, we see how the blood elves and nightborne have stablished diplomatic relations.

This would cut the cost of making several introduction zones for races with more than one sub-group, while also updating the parent race current status. This could also double as the pre-expansion event.

Will they do it? We will find out in 8 days.
I don't expect anything that'd involve heavily editing a model or making a completely new model such as any race with no female model such as broken, forest trolls, zandalar, and taunka. Now in the end I'd be fine with being wrong but if I've learned anything over 12 years it's that it's best to not get overly hyped especially about something that's not even remotely confirmed. I already know that if Blizzard announces the expac next week with no alternate races and just much more customization and new worgen/goblin models you'll have people freaking out and calling Blizzard out for something that they just assumed was coming and pretending like that's Blizzards fault.

Last edited by Leviathon; 10-26-2017 at 11:19 AM..
  #14196  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:37 AM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
I already know that if Blizzard announces the expac next week with no alternate races and just much more customization and new worgen/goblin models you'll have people freaking out and calling Blizzard out for something that they just assumed was coming and pretending like that's Blizzards fault.
Of course they'll call Blizzard out, and they have a right too. If Blizzard wants to avoid negative PR and backlash from players misinterpreting the data, then they should've come out immediately and explained the data that was uncovered was not an indication of subraces or new races at all, but just a different method of categorizing data for non-playable races.
  #14197  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:39 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
Of course they'll call Blizzard out, and they have a right too. If Blizzard wants to avoid negative PR and backlash from players misinterpreting the data, then they should've come out immediately and explained the data that was uncovered was not an indication of subraces or new races at all, but just a different method of categorizing data for non-playable races.
They are under no obligation to explain to players what internal data is. If people were to freak out about something they just think's going to happen based on datamining the correct response in my eyes would just be to further encrypt the files. The way people can be about datamining is why companies like Square and ANet use so much encryption/don't allow datamining on the scale Blizzard does.

Last edited by Leviathon; 10-26-2017 at 11:44 AM..
  #14198  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:43 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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I don't expect anything that'd involve heavily editing a model or making a completely new model such as any race with no female model such as broken, forest trolls, zandalar, and taunka.
Yeah, I know I may be wrong, but I've been disappointed so many times due to expectations that I'm used to it. I think speculating is fun, which is why do it often.

But, about females, they can be based on the female models of the respective base race. I see no problem with a female broken just be made out of the female draenei.

And I don't expect female forest trolls to be much different from female jungle trolls. All their models so far in game are just like playable trolls but with different skins. I could see them being getting slightly more muscular or with unique tusks, but not much beyond it. Trolls would require work mostly on males. Would it be cheap? Yeah, a little, but it's not like anyone expects big differences for female trolls.

(Zandalari are something I really don't expect to be playable. Some people want it, sure, but, if they are going to spend work on subraces, it will be on the ones that are already well-stablished in lore. Exceptions would be the ones introduced in Legion. I don't think they'll add something completely new at this turn.)
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  #14200  
Old 10-26-2017, 12:08 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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I'd like them using the physics on player models as well. The new female Eredar models use physics for their tails for example.
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