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  #26  
Old 04-02-2011, 05:32 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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I have question to americans.

Do you think what Andrew Jackson was a good president, and his effects on your country after he "Killed the Banks"?
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  #27  
Old 04-02-2011, 05:44 PM
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I have question to americans.

Do you think what Andrew Jackson was a good president, and his effects on your country after he "Killed the Banks"?
You're asking Americans about their history?! HAHAHAHAHA

We don't know our own history, otherwise we'd realize just how fucked up we really were/are and will be in the near future.

Overall the guy was wrong on just about everything. His stance on slavery/native american rights was abhorrent. His belief in "small limited government," was so contrast by how he applied things that honestly there's no room to even comment positively on the man. We do need a national bank, but one that has aggressive oversight, because you cannot have an economy as massive as today's and expect to run it properly via privatized banks.
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:46 PM
jjstraka jjstraka is offline

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Donald Trump has about as much chance of becoming President as Bolvar's left nut........
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  #29  
Old 04-02-2011, 05:58 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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You're asking Americans about their history?! HAHAHAHAHA

We don't know our own history, otherwise we'd realize just how fucked up we really were/are and will be in the near future.

Overall the guy was wrong on just about everything. His stance on slavery/native american rights was abhorrent. His belief in "small limited government," was so contrast by how he applied things that honestly there's no room to even comment positively on the man. We do need a national bank, but one that has aggressive oversight, because you cannot have an economy as massive as today's and expect to run it properly via privatized banks.
I saw a somewhat kinda of documentary(sand some other sorts sources) that said that andrew jackson presidency was followed with the biggest economic prosperity in the history of america and one of the few(if not the only) president that paid the debt of the country entirely
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Old 04-02-2011, 06:07 PM
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I saw a somewhat kinda of documentary(sand some other sorts sources) that said that andrew jackson presidency was followed with the biggest economic prosperity in the history of america and one of the few(if not the only) president that paid the debt of the country entirely
You're looking for the word "sans" not "sand." Two completely different meanings. What was the name of the documentary, I'd like to do some fact checking of their work.
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  #31  
Old 04-02-2011, 06:13 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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You're looking for the word "sans" not "sand." Two completely different meanings. What was the name of the documentary, I'd like to do some fact checking of their work.
Well First this is the thing that said what he did
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/1...illed-the-Bank
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In January 8th, 1835, Jackson paid off the final installment on the national debt, which had been necessitated by allowing the banks to issue currency for government bonds, rather than simply issuing treasury notes without such debt. He was the only President to ever pay off the debt.
The Documentary, which is more like a conspirationist cartoon filled with jokes
takes about half an hour so when you have free time see it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5...layer_embedded
At least everything made sense in context and with the information i have...
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  #32  
Old 04-02-2011, 06:24 PM
Vil'rexin Vil'rexin is offline

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In regards to Trump becoming the next President, I was ranting more so about how easily Americans (majority of the world really) are influenced and pertaining to the statement of our history, it doesn't bother me in the slightest in what we did since most other countries have blood on their hands in certain periods of time.
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  #33  
Old 04-03-2011, 10:03 AM
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Donald Trump has about as much chance of becoming President as Bolvar's left nut........
Funny you should say that... my left nut just formed a presidential exploratory committee last week.
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  #34  
Old 04-03-2011, 12:44 PM
SicilianNecktie SicilianNecktie is offline

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I have question to americans.

Do you think what Andrew Jackson was a good president, and his effects on your country after he "Killed the Banks"?
I personally don't like him. He completely shat on the Constitution by threatening states trying to invoke the 10th amendment, as well as completely ignoring Supreme Court decisions on the legality of his Indian policy. He didn't even try and give legal justification. He was also incredibly racist (although, most everyone back then was racist to an extent, so it's to be expected. He was just slightly more of a jerk) towards the indians with the Trail of Tears and Indian Removal Policy. The way he went about removing the U.S. bank was very shabby. The resulting chaos brought about hundreds of "wildcatter" banks trying to fill the power vacuum, most of which lasted for a few months before going under and losing all the money from the common guy who put his savings in there. He was also incredibly corrupt, and one of the first U.S. politicians to start the trend of getting Americans to vote not on issues, but entirely on image.
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  #35  
Old 04-03-2011, 09:08 PM
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I personally like Obama because his stance on public transportation and renewing America's infrastructure is less abhorrent than the other candidates.

It also has to do with me being a purist Democrat voter, because I disagree less with them than I do with the Republicans.

Obama may not be as far to the left as I am, but better voting for a centrist like him instead of hard rightists like Bachmann or Huckabee.

Last edited by Kadifa; 04-03-2011 at 09:10 PM..
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  #36  
Old 04-03-2011, 09:41 PM
Orifiel Whitedeer Orifiel Whitedeer is offline

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Biggest problem with Christie is that they've already got dirt on him; he abuses gov't funds at hotels on big trips. He's also pretty chunky. As much as I love how hard-hitting he is against corruption in the teachers' unions, I doubt he'll get on the ballot
Not to mention he abuses the shit out of state workers, goes back on campaign promises, promises the moon to get your vote then denies he promised you anything in the first place.

People who aren't from NJ love him, people who have to live with him know better. Ask my mom, she makes crap for money and yet still gets a 4 day a month furlough. Oh and pensions for cops? gone.
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  #37  
Old 04-04-2011, 04:47 AM
Ded Chikn Ded Chikn is offline

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Not to mention he abuses the shit out of state workers, goes back on campaign promises, promises the moon to get your vote then denies he promised you anything in the first place.
So he is every politician ever? Got it.
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  #38  
Old 04-04-2011, 08:35 AM
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God damnit Bolvar.

I was ready to come in, fists blazing.

Then I realized, I love Bolvar, and this is why.

Love the vid.
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  #39  
Old 04-04-2011, 11:00 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by SicilianNecktie View Post
I personally don't like him. He completely shat on the Constitution by threatening states trying to invoke the 10th amendment, as well as completely ignoring Supreme Court decisions on the legality of his Indian policy. He didn't even try and give legal justification. He was also incredibly racist (although, most everyone back then was racist to an extent, so it's to be expected. He was just slightly more of a jerk) towards the indians with the Trail of Tears and Indian Removal Policy. The way he went about removing the U.S. bank was very shabby. The resulting chaos brought about hundreds of "wildcatter" banks trying to fill the power vacuum, most of which lasted for a few months before going under and losing all the money from the common guy who put his savings in there. He was also incredibly corrupt, and one of the first U.S. politicians to start the trend of getting Americans to vote not on issues, but entirely on image.
How about claims that him killing the bank brought the greatest economic boon in the US history

edit: Obama did announce his bid trough
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12957690
and he seems to be ahead in the polls
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  #40  
Old 04-04-2011, 03:29 PM
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God damnit Bolvar.

I was ready to come in, fists blazing.

Then I realized, I love Bolvar, and this is why.

Love the vid.

Bolvar is friend to purple-haired gnomes everywhere.

Also, I think it's so funny people saying Christie can't win because he's fat. We have a black president... we're way past that, you know.
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  #41  
Old 04-04-2011, 03:37 PM
SicilianNecktie SicilianNecktie is offline

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How about claims that him killing the bank brought the greatest economic boon in the US history
By no means the greatest economic boon, not to mention it was short term and followed by a terrible depression. He split up the bank into hundreds of smaller ones with the bankers decided simply as people who supported Jackson. These banks were not only having an inefficient and inexperienced leadership, but also ramped up speculation and use of credit beyond the reserves the US had at the time. After many of these banks began to fail, the paper money (realize you've got hundreds of different kinds of bills now, different kind from each different bank) just lost value. Completely, in an instant, became worthless, not simply a depression in value. Jackson overcompensated with the Coinage Act which made it imperative to buy land with hard money only, no bank notes. By doing that, hundreds of people had paper money the could no longer exchange for hard money, and you had the Panic of 1837, one of the worst depressions in American history.
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  #42  
Old 04-04-2011, 04:09 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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okay...

Guess that information was kinda wrong? i think
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  #43  
Old 04-04-2011, 04:25 PM
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okay...

Guess that information was kinda wrong? i think
Never trust a "documentary" until you know its source and their politics. And above all else, check your and their facts before making a judgment.
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  #44  
Old 04-04-2011, 04:28 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Never trust a "documentary" until you know its source and their politics. And above all else, check your and their facts before making a judgment.
I still think your Federal Reserve has major problems that should be solved first, and should be disbanded and reformed
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:15 PM
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I still think your Federal Reserve has major problems that should be solved first, and should be disbanded and reformed
Don't just state gut reactions, give empirical data, facts on the ground, & etc. Show me the reasons why I should take your side instead of telling me that your side is "simply better."
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:08 PM
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Don't just state gut reactions, give empirical data, facts on the ground, & etc. Show me the reasons why I should take your side instead of telling me that your side is "simply better."
His economic crisis was about to be resolved. That's why it's better.
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  #47  
Old 04-04-2011, 08:16 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Don't just state gut reactions, give empirical data, facts on the ground, & etc. Show me the reasons why I should take your side instead of telling me that your side is "simply better."
Well one example

Quote:
Vermont Senator: Why Did The Fed Bail Out the Bank of Libya?

Written by indiekim on April 1st, 2011. Posted in Corporations, Libya, US Gov

This release is copied word-for-word from US Senator for Vermont, Bernie(Bernard) Sanders government pageI would recommend also reading Sen. Sanders letter which is in the release

March 31, 2011

How do Gadhafis Bankers Avoid U.S. Sanctions?
WASHINGTON, March 31 Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today questioned why the Federal Reserve provided more than $26 billion in credit to an Arab intermediary for the Central Bank of Libya.

The total includes at least $3.2 billion in loans that the Fed was forced to make public today in addition to earlier revelations under a Sanders provision in the Wall Street reform law.

Sanders also asked why the Libyan-owned bank and two of its branches in New York, N.Y., were exempted from sanctions that the United States this month slapped on other Libyan businesses to pressure Col. Moammar Gadhafis government.

It is incomprehensible to me that while creditworthy small businesses in Vermont and throughout the country could not receive affordable loans, the Federal Reserve was providing tens of billions of dollars in credit to a bank that is substantially owned by the Central Bank of Libya, Sanders said.

In a letter to Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and others, Sanders asked why the central bank made at least 46 emergency, low-interest loans to the Arab Banking Corp., in which the Central Bank of Libya owns a 59 percent stake.

In the same letter, Sanders asked Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner why the Treasury Department on March 4 let the Libya-controlled bank skirt the economic sanctions against Libya.

The senator also questioned why the Bahrain-based Arab Banking Corp. is even allowed to operate branches inside United States. Why would the U.S. government allow a bank that is predominantly owned by the Central Bank of Libya an institution on which the U.S. has imposed strict economic sanctions to operate two banking branches within our own borders? Sanders asked.

The Fed transactions were made public earlier this year as a result of a Sanders provision in the Wall Street reform law that forced the U.S. central bank to reveal which financial institutions it bailed out during the financial crisis from 2007 to 2010.

In another dubious twist, the Fed loans, at interest rates as low as 0.25 percent, relied on U.S. Treasury securities as collateral. In other words, at the same time that the Arab Banking Corp. was borrowing money at almost zero interest from one arm of the government, the Fed, it was lending money at a higher interest rate to another arm of the U.S. government, the Treasury Department.
I think Obama had the right idea force them to be transparent
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  #48  
Old 04-04-2011, 09:55 PM
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That's an example of a corrupted system, not an example of why the Fed itself is a bad thing. Why do you believe it needs a complete restart as opposed to an overhaul or just a government watchdog group overseeing its actions? I suggest looking at it from an economic and political perspective.
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  #49  
Old 04-05-2011, 03:43 AM
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  #50  
Old 04-05-2011, 02:04 PM
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In respect of some domestic policies, but they're the same on foreign policy.

I'm just wondering when we'll get more than just two parties.

We will never have more than two major parties while we use a winner-takes-all plurality voting system.

With our current system, you either win your seat or you don't. If two parties face off, one on the Left and one on the Right, they race to the middle to win the largest percentage of Moderate voters, while of course trying to appease their base to keep them energized and going to the polls. This creates a neatly divided electorate (assuming a one-dimensional axis of voter sympathies, which I know is very simplified) where just over 50% support the winner, and just under 50% on average support the losing party.

Throw another party into the system. If it is a minor party on the fringes of left or right (think Greens or Constitution Party), they shave a percentage point here or there and just force the bigger parties to move in a more moderate direction to make up for it. No change likely to the status quo, although some minor parties make insurgencies that can sway very close elections such as Reform in 2000 with Nader. Believe what you will about hanging chads, recounts, and Supreme Court decisions, the simple matter remains that if Nader had not run we likely are talking about President Gore ignoring intelligence about imminent 9/11 attacks

If a third party comes along that can claim a more substantial chunk, this is where our winner takes all system really swings into play. Let's say an insurgent party on the Right garners enough support to win 20% of the electorate. It is unlikely that all of those losses can be made up by moving to the center, so the previous Rightist party will need to become very centrist AND possibly even begin co-opting some Leftist ideas. In effect, the center of the electorate changes for that election, and you might see a result (from Left to Right) of 45%-35%-20%. In this case, a full 55% of the electorate are disapproving of the ideas of the Left party, and yet the Left gets the seat and the "voter mandate" to implement their ideas. This forces the supporters of Old Right and New Right to assess their situation in subsequent elections, and either Old Right will die off and New Right will take over, or New Right will get absorbed into Old Right. Two major parties restored, status quo returns.

I know this is extremely simplified, any political science doctorates out there can feel free to correct me or further educate me! The solution that allows multi-party systems is more similar to parliamentary government, which allows representation based on the percentage of the electorate supporting a given party. In the situation described above, New Right and Old Right would then combined have 55% of the seats, and be able to form a coalition that more accurately reflects the sentiments of the electorate.
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