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  #51  
Old 07-23-2011, 06:57 AM
Soldrethar Soldrethar is offline

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Originally Posted by Ku'ja View Post
I have a bad feeling about this honestly... It just makes no sense but niether did the latest Warcraft book till we read it and were amazed at how epic it was.

Im going to have to see how this pans out otherwise its going to make the Alliance look alot weaker with Thrall back in power unless he drops down as the Earthen Ring leader which would be almost a contradiction. I guess he could lead them with the feeling that he has to due to something Garrosh had done but yeah this is wierd.

Magni coming back would be epic but i dont want him taking lead of the Dwarves simply because of the Council and how much damn potential that has...

How about magni revives, and is now infused with powerful shamanistic powers and becomes the shaman king of ironforge?
  #52  
Old 07-23-2011, 06:59 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Problem is they don't have a future. It's either die to the Horde or die to Ragnaros.

The other worse alternative is that they get completely whitewashed instead of having some moral ambiguity like they did in WC3. All following Malfurion's example because you know... he's always right, about everything.
The Horde can be negotiated with.

I'm glad to see that you share my annoyance about some people's dislike of ambiguity, albeit from the other direction.
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  #53  
Old 07-23-2011, 06:59 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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No we're not. He stays neutral while we're beating up his wife who's right beside him the entire time.
...

Wish same happens with Thrall then. Let's slaughter Garrosh while he looks!

For some reason, Thrall looks better neutral in this stance than Malfurion .
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  #54  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:01 AM
WyrmKing WyrmKing is offline

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Magni coming back would be epic but i dont want him taking lead of the Dwarves simply because of the Council and how much damn potential that has...
Magni coming back wouldn't mean the dissolution of the reunified Three Hammers. He'll just take his brother's place on the council since he's the rightful ruler of Khaz Modan. Though if he does come back, it means the chances of the Dark Iron Empire and the Kingdom of Khaz Modan being ruled under a single throne would not be possible since Magni will probably do everything in his power to make sure his grandson doesn't inherit the throne.
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:02 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
...

Wish same happens with Thrall then. Let's slaughter Garrosh while he looks!

For some reason, Thrall looks better neutral in this stance than Malfurion .
So did Varimathras.

Which now makes me wish that if Varimathras had to leave the Forsaken, he'd become the leader of some neutral faction instead of just being disposed of. He was an interesting character, and in theory a nice departure from the hiveminded Legion loyalists.
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  #56  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:05 AM
Soldrethar Soldrethar is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
So did Varimathras.

Which now makes me wish that if Varimathras had to leave the Forsaken, he'd become the leader of some neutral faction instead of just being disposed of. He was an interesting character, and in theory a nice departure from the hiveminded Legion loyalists.
He was also evil.
  #57  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:05 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
The Horde can be negotiated with.

I'm glad to see that you share my annoyance about some people's dislike of ambiguity, albeit from the other direction.
They can be negotiated with, since Thrall is coming back. My problem is that it makes it feel pointless for Ashenvale to even have a war to begin with. What was the point of it? So many corpses strewn all throughout the forest only to end in a truce. What a waste of lives...

And yes, I want more morally ambiguous characters. I can list at least 3 characters I think were missed opportunities and those were Illidan, Ralaar Fangfire, and Fandral Staghelm. All hit with the retarded villain bat... but meh I wont' QQ too much about it.
  #58  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:05 AM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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Originally Posted by WyrmKing View Post
Magni coming back wouldn't mean the dissolution of the reunified Three Hammers. He'll just take his brother's place on the council since he's the rightful ruler of Khaz Modan. Though if he does come back, it means the chances of the Dark Iron Empire and the Kingdom of Khaz Modan being ruled under a single throne would not be possible since Magni will probably do everything in his power to make sure his grandson doesn't inherit the throne.
He is the King or was and honestly if he came back and wanted to take his seat back up then he could simply do it i would go as far to say that Varian enforced what he did because of the circumstances.
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  #59  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:09 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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They can be negotiated with, since Thrall is coming back. My problem is that it makes it feel pointless for Ashenvale to even have a war to begin with. What was the point of it? So many corpses strewn all throughout the forest only to end in a truce. What a waste of lives...
Peace is a waste of lives? What?
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  #60  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:12 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
Peace is a waste of lives? What?
No I'm saying people died for nothing in the long run, peace could have been attained before all this happened I think but both Malfurion and Thrall were ineffective at settling it before it went out of hand.
  #61  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:13 AM
Brohgshaman Brohgshaman is offline

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I have a bad feeling about this honestly... It just makes no sense but niether did the latest Warcraft book till we read it and were amazed at how epic it was.

Im going to have to see how this pans out otherwise its going to make the Alliance look alot weaker with Thrall back in power unless he drops down as the Earthen Ring leader which would be almost a contradiction. I guess he could lead them with the feeling that he has to due to something Garrosh had done but yeah this is wierd.

Magni coming back would be epic but i dont want him taking lead of the Dwarves simply because of the Council and how much damn potential that has...
Thrall isn't leader of the earthen ring, thats been a fact from day one.
and it isn't so weird from a fantasy and fiction pov to have a character discover who he really is and how that can help his people, that is what wow is after all, a fiction.
  #62  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:15 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Grimtale View Post
No I'm saying people died for nothing in the long run, peace could have been attained before all this happened I think but both Malfurion and Thrall were ineffective at settling it before it went out of hand.
There were more pressing matters at the time, I feel.

In any case, nothing? What would you prefer? Ashenvale to be burned? The orcs living in it to be wiped out?
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  #63  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:17 AM
Soldrethar Soldrethar is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
There were more pressing matters at the time, I feel.

In any case, nothing? What would you prefer? Ashenvale to be burned? The orcs living in it to be wiped out?
I'd prefer the orcs just leave ashenvale alone.
  #64  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:17 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Soldrethar View Post
I'd prefer the orcs just leave ashenvale alone.
Wisp lumber. A shame no one had that idea.
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  #65  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:18 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
There were more pressing matters at the time, I feel.

In any case, nothing? What would you prefer? Ashenvale to be burned? The orcs living in it to be wiped out?
I would have liked to see the Night Elves take some action in getting back their bases before all of this would transpire. (Namely Silverwind)

I hate that it's Garrosh that gets to kill Krom'gar after he had his men kill civilians in Silverwind and bombed a Druid village. If anything I would have liked to see Tyrande take some action in making him pay.

I dunno, I just want something that shows the Alliance genuinely care about what's going on around them. Their people suffering, and them reacting in a way that's believable instead of being so unemotional about it.
  #66  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:21 AM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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Originally Posted by Brohgshaman View Post
Thrall isn't leader of the earthen ring, thats been a fact from day one.
and it isn't so weird from a fantasy and fiction pov to have a character discover who he really is and how that can help his people, that is what wow is after all, a fiction.
It makes no sense to go back to the Horde so early because he has become very Neutral with his involvement with Malfurion and what he put behind him in the Shattering... The there is Garrosh that was begining to actually grow as a leader which will simply be dropped if Thrall was to take over and ot looked like Thrall was going to be Neutral throughout Cataclysm at least in the last book sorting out the world. Its simply a very odd choice to do while we are still going through Cataclysm. You have to understand my point of view here .
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  #67  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:23 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Grimtale View Post
I would have liked to see the Night Elves take some action in getting back their bases before all of this would transpire. (Namely Silverwind)

I hate that it's Garrosh that gets to kill Krom'gar after he had his men kill civilians in Silverwind and bombed a Druid village. If anything I would have liked to see Tyrande take some action in making him pay.

I dunno, I just want something that shows the Alliance genuinely care about what's going on around them. Their people suffering, and them reacting in a way that's believable instead of being so unemotional about it.
I wonder if perhaps Malfurion acknowledges that the whole trouble with night elves and lumber was at least in part their own fault. As for others... the dwarves are caught up in internal political shenanigans, Mekkatorque is extremely focused on his own people, Velen's aren't suffering that much (if at all), and Varian is... well, I admit he's hard to peg.
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  #68  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:28 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
I wonder if perhaps Malfurion acknowledges that the whole trouble with night elves and lumber was at least in part their own fault. As for others... the dwarves are caught up in internal political shenanigans, Mekkatorque is extremely focused on his own people, Velen's aren't suffering that much (if at all), and Varian is... well, I admit he's hard to peg.
I don't think it should matter, he should be biased towards his own people regardless of that. He has expressed that he loves his people more than anything but has not shown it properly enough.

If by comparison you take someone like Sylvanas, I don't think she'd give a complete damn at all if her people started some kind of fight with another race. She'd defend them, because she loves them that much and wants to ensure their wellbeing. (Or un-being... heh)

Malfurion just can't compare, he doesn't care. I don't care what he says, he just doesn't care about his own people at the same level that other racial leaders do.

I hate using Sylvanas as an example, but she is a racial leader that has both expressed and openly shown her care for the race that she leads. Only one I could think of off the top of my head.
  #69  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:29 AM
Brohgshaman Brohgshaman is offline

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Originally Posted by Ku'ja View Post
It makes no sense to go back to the Horde so early because he has become very Neutral with his involvement with Malfurion and what he put behind him in the Shattering... The there is Garrosh that was begining to actually grow as a leader which will simply be dropped if Thrall was to take over and ot looked like Thrall was going to be Neutral throughout Cataclysm at least in the last book sorting out the world. Its simply a very odd choice to do while we are still going through Cataclysm. You have to understand my point of view here .
Garrosh beginning to grow? Thats a joke right, since its been put forward all over that he hasn't grown or learned anything, look at the recent event with the quillboar, or twilight highlands intro, people really seem to make stuff up on that.

It isn't an odd choice to have a character develop to become a stronger character, when things like doubts and fears set them back. Suppsoe if at the end of all this, Thrall returns, and now puts the smackdown on Varian for what he does?

Buts its more complicated then that to, it seems a case that the reason Varian is doing what he's doing is because he's possessed by the spirit of Lo'gosh, the wolf god, and this has caused this duel persona. So I imagine once his lo'gosh side is beat, he'll be Varian again, and he would gladly allow for a truce with Thrall, and finally settle all these events.

Characters develop and become stronger, thats how it works in these kind of stories. So it makes perfect sense in the long run.
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:32 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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I don't think it should matter, he should be biased towards his own people regardless of that. He has expressed that he loves his people more than anything but has not shown it properly enough.
Has it ever been shown at all? To me, he's always seemed much more concerned about Azeroth and the bigger picture. He has a much wider view than Sylvanas, for whom there's almost nothing at all beyond Her own people.
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  #71  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:35 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
Has it ever been shown at all? To me, he's always seemed much more concerned about Azeroth and the bigger picture. He has a much wider view than Sylvanas, for whom there's almost nothing at all beyond Her own people.
It was in the RPG book that he was described as someone that loved his people more than anything. And those are non-canon.

So nevermind...

I just hate that he's touted as leader of the Night Elves. Please just incinerate his name from the Night Elf racial page and make Tyrande more prominent in Ashenvale.

Last edited by Lord Grimtale; 07-23-2011 at 07:40 AM..
  #72  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:42 AM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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Originally Posted by Brohgshaman View Post
Garrosh beginning to grow? Thats a joke right, since its been put forward all over that he hasn't grown or learned anything, look at the recent event with the quillboar, or twilight highlands intro, people really seem to make stuff up on that.

It isn't an odd choice to have a character develop to become a stronger character, when things like doubts and fears set them back. Suppsoe if at the end of all this, Thrall returns, and now puts the smackdown on Varian for what he does?

Buts its more complicated then that to, it seems a case that the reason Varian is doing what he's doing is because he's possessed by the spirit of Lo'gosh, the wolf god, and this has caused this duel persona. So I imagine once his lo'gosh side is beat, he'll be Varian again, and he would gladly allow for a truce with Thrall, and finally settle all these events.

Characters develop and become stronger, thats how it works in these kind of stories. So it makes perfect sense in the long run.
Garrosh hasn't grown erm what are you talking about.... He has been successful left right and centre even if he isn't level headed. The entire Krom'gar situation along with how he handled taking back Thunder Bluff and we annoyingly will only see the tip of the iceberg here if Thrall takes over.

Honestly the entire beginning of Twilight Highlands intro shouted out to me as a Badass moment to try and get the Horde fans to like him which it kind of did.

Thrall becoming the Horde leader again is fine to me if its at the end of Cataclysm when his single story has finished since I see him carrying on aiding against Deathwing and more so Nozdormu (Infinte Flight) since they are also scared of what he is going to do in the future.
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  #73  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:44 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Grimtale View Post
I just hate that he's touted as leader of the Night Elves. Please just incinerate his name from the Night Elf racial page and make Tyrande more prominent in Ashenvale.
They just need to redo the website for that, if they get around to it. I agree that he's not much of a night elf racial leader.
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  #74  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:46 AM
Soldrethar Soldrethar is offline

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Well, I'm just glad metzen makes it clear in that video that he does care about alliance and is listening to us alliance fan's plight. He says the wolfheart novel, the jaina novel, and the alliance novel after that, should really be awesome for alliance fans. It makes people saying he hates alliance and only loves the horde look childish. Fortunately, I only accused him of unintentional bias towards horde, not malicious hate for alliance.


I'm gonna buy all these novels.
  #75  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:47 AM
WyrmKing WyrmKing is offline

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Originally Posted by Ku'ja View Post
Garrosh hasn't grown erm what are you talking about.... He has been successful left right and centre even if he isn't level headed. The entire Krom'gar situation along with how he handled taking back Thunder Bluff and we annoyingly will only see the tip of the iceberg here if Thrall takes over.
His successes in Northrend and Cataclysm was because he had some level-headed generals to keep him in check. He himself is a fucking dumbass.

Quote:
Honestly the entire beginning of Twilight Highlands intro shouted out to me as a Badass moment to try and get the Horde fans to like him which it kind of did.
That was just gratuitous fan service to satisfy idiots that like to scream, "For the Horde!" IRL. Those of us who are not Horde fanboys but play some Horde characters, it was a display of idiocy. He had his planes attack the Alliance for no reason and in turn left his fleet unprotected.
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