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  #26  
Old 03-17-2014, 04:08 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
Isn't he suppose to have next to no role in WoD?

So why not send him out with a bang since he isn't suppose to be any kind of player in WoD?
Well, he just doesn't have a leading role. But he is the new "Prophet" of sorts.
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Originally Posted by Galka View Post
After reading "...are you afraid?" it hit me that Garrosh was such a wasted character as the stupid villain. He could have been so compelling as an intelligent and scheming villain who plays mind games. He's about to die, so naturally he becomes interesting now.
That was actually quite obvious from the beginning.

Personally, I feel Garrosh was always trying too hard to be the "Hit things with my Axe" guy. His successes were always when that wasn't his mentality.

I think this clever, manipulative side of Garrosh could work well as the Iron Horde's Prophet. The sort of Gul'dan of his faction.

I also thought it would be lovely if Garrosh's brief bond with Y'Shaarj was explored further, with it being revealed that it had left him with a certain affinity for magics of a Divine nature.

This could help allow Anduin's role to be even more hilarious, if Anduin tried to help redeem Garrosh by teaching him say... Meditation techniques, and the methods used for getting in touch with ones inner power, like the Light(or Void), and manifesting that power. You know.

Generally trying to teach him the Lights with techniques that could also be used for other sorts of powers, and Garrosh turning out to actually be surprisingly adept at it. In the end, Garrosh no longer necessarily needs an Axe, and has accepted that he's not quite his father and that he has other... Qualities.

Qualities like manipulative cunning and intelligence, at least when he chooses to use them rather than be a mere Axe Swinger.

I can dream...
  #27  
Old 03-17-2014, 04:37 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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...the first point goes to garrosh, anduin mused. “very well. I believe you can change because nothing ever stays the same. You were overthrown as warchief of the horde because the people you led changed from following your orders to questioning them, and finally rejecting them. You’ve changed from warchief to prisoner. You can change again.”


Future High King of the Alliance, ladies and gentlemen.
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  #28  
Old 03-17-2014, 04:47 PM
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Garrosh is a Naaru!!!1!
  #29  
Old 03-17-2014, 04:49 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
We already knew Anduin was going to fuck up. It's obvious his fuck up will be serious.

I'm just going to sit here and hope that his fuck up proves to be spectacular, by teaching Garrosh to do the magics.
  #30  
Old 03-17-2014, 04:52 PM
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Seemed a little bit fanficcy, but that's just me.
  #31  
Old 03-17-2014, 04:55 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
We already knew Anduin was going to fuck up. It's obvious his fuck up will be serious.

I'm just going to sit here and hope that his fuck up proves to be spectacular, by teaching Garrosh to do the magics.
Oh, we knew. But there comes a point when "Haha, called it!" stops being satisfying when you can predict every awful story plot point coming ten miles off.

Reposting for reasons.

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  #32  
Old 03-17-2014, 04:58 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Anduin was literally beaten to a pulp thanks to Garrosh.

You'd think he'd fucking learn.
He is naive and i think with the likes of Jaina changing completely he is more adamant that he needs to be the one to bring peace. He has a form of ego complex when it comes to this i think similar to Arthas (thought everything he was doing was for his people) since he knows he is the future leader against the Legion... It is going to be something a lot bigger than being beaten up i think for this guy to change his mindset.

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Originally Posted by Reignac View Post
Garrosh smiled oddly. “No, you are not,” he agreed. “But maybe . . . I am.”


Garrosh=Arthas isn't a connection I can really see, but dammit if that line doesn't sound awesome.
I am almost 100% sure he said it in a attempt to anger Anduin... Loving what i am hearing from Garrosh in this it is as if he knows he will get out or that is is doomed so he doesn't care.

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Future High King of the Alliance, ladies and gentlemen.
The guy is i think 16 here i think people seem to forget his age has a lot to do with his views .
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  #33  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:03 PM
Avon Avon is offline

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Originally Posted by Proshall View Post
Seemed a little bit fanficcy, but that's just me.
That's Golden for you.
  #34  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ku'ja View Post
The guy is i think 16 here i think people seem to forget his age has a lot to do with his views .
Then he shouldn't be allowed to have this much authority.
  #35  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:04 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
Oh, we knew. But there comes a point when "Haha, called it!" stops being satisfying when you can predict every awful story plot point coming ten miles off.
True.

But does it have to be such an awful plot point?

Many people seem to assume that Anduin's opinions are meant to be right, when he's clearly going to be responsible for some incredible feats of stupidity all in the name of peace.

Anduin's naivety is established, and this story will likely establish it as a flaw that Garrosh can exploit. This could be a major turning point for Anduin's character if it's managed well, especially if he has to face personal consequences for his overly trusting nature.

Maybe something like, say... Getting dragged away from the Alliance for three or so years, to serve as Garrosh's personal slave and powerlessly witness the creation of the Iron Horde firsthand.

Really, the worse Anduin fucks up, the better. That just makes it more likely to stick in his conscience.
  #36  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:14 PM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

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Originally Posted by Proshall View Post
Seemed a little bit fanficcy, but that's just me.
The sad part is that I think the fanfiction writers could probably do it better.
  #37  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:15 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
True.

But does it have to be such an awful plot point?

Many people seem to assume that Anduin's opinions are meant to be right, when he's clearly going to be responsible for some incredible feats of stupidity all in the name of peace.

Anduin's naivety is established, and this story will likely establish it as a flaw that Garrosh can exploit. This could be a major turning point for Anduin's character if it's managed well, especially if he has to face personal consequences for his overly trusting nature.

Maybe something like, say... Getting dragged away from the Alliance for three or so years, to serve as Garrosh's personal slave and powerlessly witness the creation of the Iron Horde firsthand.

Really, the worse Anduin fucks up, the better. That just makes it more likely to stick in his conscience.
The problem is that Anduin's naivety is never presented as a bad thing. Nobody calls him out on his bullshit, whilst New Jaina is for example. See also: Taran Zhu. Nobody goes "Oh shit Anduin! Why did you try to talk to Garrosh?!" during Shieldwall. Nobody ever points out "Hey, you know the Horde keep doing all this bad shit to us right?" aside from when Jaina snaps at him for one line in ToW which is when she's going off the deep end anyway.

With Metzen coming out and saying he likes Anduin, plus the Army of the Light implications- well, I think you're giving Blizzard's writing too much credit if you think Anduin being an insufferably self-righteous little shit is meant to be anything but seen as right. Hey look, Varian is his new role model now! The same role model who basically went "lol cya" after the Siege which is meant to be the 'good' thing to do. Add to that things like the Hearthstone article where he's repeatedly described as "wise".
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  #38  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:17 PM
Proshall Proshall is offline

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I don't think Golden's a bad author, she's just been given probably one of the shittiest topics to work off that any author working with licensed works could have, that being a court room drama based on a fantasy series.

I mean holy shit what are they thinking.

This is probably the only case where they need to put it as a quest because the original is just not compelling enough to sit through 300+ pages worth of.
  #39  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:18 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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Originally Posted by Avon View Post
That's Golden for you.
I thought most people loved her work i know i have... not sure if i am alone on that though.
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  #40  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:18 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
The problem is that Anduin's naivety is never presented as a bad thing. Nobody calls him out on his bullshit, whilst New Jaina is for example. See also: Taran Zhu.

With Metzen coming out and saying he likes Anduin, plus the Army of the Light implications- well, I think you're giving Blizzard's writing too much credit if you think Anduin being an insufferably self-righteous little shit is meant to be anything but seen as right. Hey look, Varian is his new role model now! The same role model who basically went "lol cya" after the Siege which is meant to be the 'good' thing to do.
Pretty much. Calling out Jaina for what she does, yet he's willing to forgive genocidal monsters. Pretty retarded character.
  #41  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:19 PM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

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Originally Posted by Proshall View Post
I mean holy shit what are they thinking.
That the only thing a plot needs is the Rule of Cool and nothing else.
  #42  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:20 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
The problem is that Anduin's naivety is never presented as a bad thing. Nobody calls him out on his bullshit, whilst New Jaina is for example. See also: Taran Zhu.

With Metzen coming out and saying he likes Anduin, plus the Army of the Light implications- well, I think you're giving Blizzard's writing too much credit if you think Anduin being an insufferably self-righteous little shit is meant to be anything but seen as right. Hey look, Varian is his new role model now! The same role model who basically went "lol cya" after the Siege which is meant to be the 'good' thing to do.
The last time Anduin got harmed for stupidity, it also came with a success. Regardless of his naivety before, it never had a purely negative result.

There's no way this will result in a success. This will be pure terribleness resulting from stupid behavior.

A good reason to learn a lesson, and get him out of his pompous douchebag attire by giving him a three-year vacation on the Planet of the Savages.
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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
Pretty much. Calling out Jaina for what she does, yet he's willing to forgive genocidal monsters. Pretty retarded character.
He never said he was unable to forgive Jaina either. These are two separate situations with these characters.

He did "call out" Garrosh just fine.
  #43  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
It reads like a burgeoning trashy harlequin romance novel, which seems to be increasingly the case for Christie Golden's writing style.

I'm surprised we didn't see "This is the skin of a killer" anywhere in that excerpt.
  #44  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:26 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by Ku'ja View Post
I thought most people loved her work i know i have... not sure if i am alone on that though.
I don't mind Golden. I mean I'm in no rush to read her work, but I don't dislike her either. I respect that chances are she has to work very strictly to the confines Blizzard make her which can make it come across as if it's HER idea for this-and-that plot point.

She's good. Not bad, not amazing. I don't have any issue with reading her stuff.
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  #45  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:54 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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For people who keep blaming his age for his naivety, Vanessa Vancleef is probably a teenager. So is Me'dan, technically Valeera, Thrall during his escape and the 3rd War, and Li Li is younger than him.

Garrosh is supposed to be his progression that not everyone can or should be saved. How can anyone forgive him for releasing a literal war criminal against the world? If people do, then it's because of either his status as a prince, or his destiny as a leader. Neither of which are strong developments of his character.
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
  #46  
Old 03-17-2014, 06:02 PM
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That's it.

I called this shit weeks ago and I did it in jest more than anything; hoping I'd be proven wrong, but lo and behold, Anduin-LOLDERPDERPDERP-Sue is trading banter with Garrosh, leading up to him letting him out, and giving us WoD.

I'm done with the Lore for the time being. This is beyond stupid.
  #47  
Old 03-17-2014, 06:04 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
For people who keep blaming his age for his naivety, Vanessa Vancleef is probably a teenager. So is Me'dan, technically Valeera, Thrall during his escape and the 3rd War, and Li Li is younger than him.

Garrosh is supposed to be his progression that not everyone can or should be saved. How can anyone forgive him for releasing a literal war criminal against the world? If people do, then it's because of either his status as a prince, or his destiny as a leader. Neither of which are strong developments of his character.
Characters have done worse and still managed to find redemption in some form or another.
  #48  
Old 03-17-2014, 06:13 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
Characters have done worse and still managed to find redemption in some form or another.
Who in this setting? Screwing up = death.
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
  #49  
Old 03-17-2014, 06:17 PM
Blayze Blayze is offline

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Who in this setting? Screwing up = death.
Screwing up = death, but death = redemption, so screwing up = redemption.

...which means the act of needing redemption in the first place also grants it to you. Now that's efficiency.
  #50  
Old 03-17-2014, 06:19 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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But who will redeem redemption? I ask you, who will do such a thing?
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expected bad but damn, garracism, genocide, he wuz mean 2 jaina, horrible whining, i despise all of you, intolerable forums, literature, the miserable diplomat, war=peace freedom=slavery, world of warcraft

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