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  #26  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:40 AM
Peger Peger is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
She'd be a good character if Blizzard actually played her straight. Unfortunately, she has too many rabid fans for the writers to ever get away with giving any of her actions their proper consequence.
Well, she did got shot in the head and doomed to Wow-hell, so...
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  #27  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:47 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Uhh... who *is* the replacement for Voljin? I honestly have no idea.
Unofficially? Rok'han. Near as I can tell, Blizzard figures they can just put up "generic shadowhunter with a recognizable name" and they've basically got a faction leader with the same characterization Vol'jin had.
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  #28  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:51 AM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Originally Posted by Almed View Post
That's just a side-effect of Varian dying and having to kill another faction leader for it to stay even. Vol'jin drew the short straw.

Sylvanas has repeatedly shown she's not better than Arthas in any way that's big enough. And she doesn't have the soul eating puppet sword excuse. Despite this, both the Alliance and Argent Crusade wear kid gloves aroujd the Forsaken.
She will have an excuse, sooner or later, though. Kerrigan, remember? Kerrigan was way more cruel than the Overmind, but in the end, the universe bent over backwards to excuse her of any meaningful responsibility.

That's what I meant. What's keeping Sylvannas untouchable it's not so much her faction leader status, as Varyan, Garrosh, Vol'jin and even Magni prove. It's her "fan-favorite cheesecake" status.

Or maybe I'm too cynical.
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  #29  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:55 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I'd rather have Vanira and perhaps Zen'tabra, if we ever get proper Loa priest druids. And proper Echo Isles, withh floating gardens, jungle and awesome predators to tame!
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  #30  
Old 04-22-2017, 07:09 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
I'd rather have Vanira and perhaps Zen'tabra, if we ever get proper Loa priest druids. And proper Echo Isles, withh floating gardens, jungle and awesome predators to tame!
THANK YOU

Rok'han's an easy, lazy choice, but it means not developing him one bit, since he's effectively identical to Vol'jin.

Vanira, maybe Master Gadrin, that's where it's at.
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  #31  
Old 04-22-2017, 07:21 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
THANK YOU

Rok'han's an easy, lazy choice, but it means not developing him one bit, since he's effectively identical to Vol'jin.

Vanira, maybe Master Gadrin, that's where it's at.
I'm still pissed cause he was supposed to be friendly, it was like his one line of characterization, but in Wotlk they made him a proud jerk and since then I don't think he's gotten any actual characterization.


Agreed Vanira would've been a better choice to develop and keep Rokhan as a scout or darkspear 'champion'
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  #32  
Old 04-22-2017, 07:59 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
I'd rather have Vanira and perhaps Zen'tabra, if we ever get proper Loa priest druids. And proper Echo Isles, withh floating gardens, jungle and awesome predators to tame!
It would require Blizzard to realize there can be more to Druidism than just how Night Elves use it.
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  #33  
Old 04-22-2017, 08:06 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
It would require Blizzard to realize there can be more to Druidism than just how Night Elves use it.
Truth be told, I don't care all that much for Zen'tabra.

At any rate, I can hardly believe I'm saying this, but could we stop talking about the Darskpear, and start talking about Sylvanas?
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  #34  
Old 04-22-2017, 08:26 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Like I mentioned in the short story's thread, I have no issues with Sylvanas not looking like the majority of her subjects. She wasn't a run of the mill zombie back when Arthas still held the reins, so why should she look worse than other Scourge commanders, like the Death Knights? In fact, I'd say that her body looking almost pristine is the entire point of Arthas's torture; he wanted to show her what she'd lost whenever she behaved well enough to earn some quality time with her body.

What the Forsaken need is more types of undead. They need more mindless undead who were too far gone to regain their free will. More Death Knights. More san'layn. More Nerubians.
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  #35  
Old 04-22-2017, 08:32 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Like I mentioned in the short story's thread, I have no issues with Sylvanas not looking like the majority of her subjects. She wasn't a run of the mill zombie back when Arthas still held the reins, so why should she look worse than other Scourge commanders, like the Death Knights? In fact, I'd say that her body looking almost pristine is the entire point of Arthas's torture; he wanted to show her what she'd lost whenever she behaved well enough to earn some quality time with her body.

What the Forsaken need is more types of undead. They need more mindless undead who were too far gone to regain their free will. More Death Knights. More san'layn. More Nerubians.
I've always felt the Forsaken should work with living Nerubians as a nice counterpart to the scourge using the crypt fiends and such.
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  #36  
Old 04-22-2017, 08:38 AM
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Vanira is literally who, come on now guys. She appeared, briefly, during Echo Isles event and at the Molton Front, that's it.

You can't seriously tell me she's even come close to being developed enough to be given the leadership of the Darkspears?

Rokhan doesn't have much, granted, but he's far and away the Darkspears most relevant named NPC left.
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  #37  
Old 04-22-2017, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Hammerbrew View Post
Vanira is literally who, come on now guys. She appeared, briefly, during Echo Isles event and at the Molton Front, that's it.

You can't seriously tell me she's even come close to being developed enough to be given the leadership of the Darkspears?

Rokhan doesn't have much, granted, but he's far and away the Darkspears most relevant named NPC left.
So we should be content with Blizzard taking the only Darkspear NPC with any development, and adding ", Darkspear Chieftain" to his name?

Or should we advocate for Blizzard to get off its ass and give just a little bit more screentime to the character who is, ostensibly, already the Darkspear second in command, helped lead the reclamation and defense of the Echo Isles, has shown a willingness to work with the Alliance to protect Azeroth's interests, and already has her own voice actress?
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  #38  
Old 04-22-2017, 09:00 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
So we should be content with Blizzard taking the only Darkspear NPC with any development, and adding ", Darkspear Chieftain" to his name?

Or should we advocate for Blizzard to get off its ass and give just a little bit more screentime to the character who is, ostensibly, already the Darkspear second in command, helped lead the reclamation and defense of the Echo Isles, has shown a willingness to work with the Alliance to protect Azeroth's interests, and already has her own voice actress?
Advocate all you like, they ain't gonna do shit.

You'll get your Sylvanas and Blood Elves over and over, and you'll fucking LIKE it.


We've known this for years, we've been calling them on the same shit for years, and nothings changed. Accept it.
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  #39  
Old 04-22-2017, 09:01 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Please post future, troll related replies on this thread.

I've heard it's pretty great.
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  #40  
Old 04-22-2017, 09:45 AM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
I don't understand how 'play her straight' equates to 'karma'. Karma is not a necessity of good or reasonable storytelling.

Bad people get away with shit sometimes and sometimes things just go badly. That's not even a new concept to WoW. In fact it's kind of WoW's magnus operandi at times.

I think the story would make more sense if Sylvanas were an out and out villainous character, but they literally just did that story with Garrosh pretty much.



The weird thing is, while many, many people (including people on staff) have a pretty rosy view of Sylvanas and her morality, Kosak doesn't seem to be one of them. Silverpine is full of her doing awful crap and people calling her on it. Same with Hillsbrad. And he was primarily responsible for the former at least.
The problem isn't karma so much as it is the other factions don't react to her in a believable way. You can't do the sort of shit she does and not have people declare war on you.

They could declare war on her, and she could win. That'd be okay as storytelling. But having everyone just ignore her defies believability.
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  #41  
Old 04-22-2017, 11:02 AM
Almed Almed is offline

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Originally Posted by Patrick_C View Post
Was it for parity though? Blizzard have never felt the need to make things 'equal' when it comes to the Alliance (except for the Anduin cinematic so maybe they've changed their attitude), not to mention that the Horde technically had Garrosh dragged through the mud and then killed pretty recently. If anything it was Varian's death alone that would've balanced the books rather than Vol'jin's.

No, I'm putting this down to fanservice in what has thus far been the fan service expansion (Illidan anybody?). We all saw the applause she got when she appeared on the cinematic reveal, as well as the months of crying about Vol'jin being a crap Warchief. Most importantly, we all know who the story lead was at the time.
Garrosh was the villain of the Faction War. And you're acting like we weren't told that the Alliance would get a fist bump situation during Pandaria.

Vol'jin being a failed Warchief who gets out for Sylvanas doesn't require him to die. That's the thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_C View Post
She will have an excuse, sooner or later, though. Kerrigan, remember? Kerrigan was way more cruel than the Overmind, but in the end, the universe bent over backwards to excuse her of any meaningful responsibility.

That's what I meant. What's keeping Sylvannas untouchable it's not so much her faction leader status, as Varyan, Garrosh, Vol'jin and even Magni prove. It's her "fan-favorite cheesecake" status.

Or maybe I'm too cynical.
Eh, Starcraft established early on that Kerrigan wasn't really herself anymore post-Zerging. And even after breaking free from the Overmind it's not like she did go back to herself, at least so soon. Not that it excuses SC2 being such a train wreck.

Sylvanas is a bit different. Apparently breaking free from Lich King restored her (to a point anyway).

As for faction leaders, Varian, Magni, even Zol'jin have heirs or otherwise replacements who can step in for them. Garrosh was the villain of his arc (see Arthas or Deathwing). Sylvanas being apparently more iconic than all of them except for maybe Varian just makes her even more beyond replacing.
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  #42  
Old 04-22-2017, 12:08 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Please post future, troll related replies on this thread.

I've heard it's pretty great.
I disagree with this moderating decision.

If the discussion is about Sylvanas and we're talking about the leader of the Darkspear, it's pretty clear to me that the matter isn't about races anymore, rather it's about the Horde and it's representing characters - mainly because Sylvanas, the original subject, is the Warchief.

You could:

a -- optimal) keep the discussion in a Horde thread, which can support both Sylvanas and Darkspear debates;

b -- not so optimal) keep the discussion in this thread, while making sure that the Darkspear are always mentioned with an addendum on how that specific mention relates to Sylvanas and her Horde;

c -- suboptimal) move the discussion to a separate Darkspear thread, cutting loose all epistemological connections built around Sylvanas, the Warchief role and the Horde

You literally picked the worst decision, IMO.
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  #43  
Old 04-22-2017, 12:28 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I disagree with this moderating decision.
You're free to open up a new thread if you think that one is needed.

A new thread or the troll thread, it's all the same to me. But you're right, I should have been more specific; I meant posts related only to trolls and not to Sylvanas and the Forsaken.
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  #44  
Old 04-22-2017, 02:09 PM
Mending Mending is offline

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If there is one thing that breathes life into a WoW forum, it's Sylvanas.
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  #45  
Old 04-22-2017, 02:26 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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If there is one thing that breathes life into a WoW forum, it's Salt and Trolls.
Fixed.
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  #46  
Old 04-22-2017, 05:59 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Given how Nathanos morals improved a bit by having a decent body, I wonder if the reason why Sylvanas became such a sociopathic bitch is because technically she isnt even corporeal, she is a ghost (to be exact a ghost raised to be a weeping bitter witch) possessing a body
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  #47  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:15 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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She wasn't the nicest gal even before her death.
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  #48  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:27 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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She was vain and considered her soldiers tools but thats far from the sociopathic-unless-i-care-about-you bitch she is now.
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  #49  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:37 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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That's what undeath does to you.
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  #50  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:54 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Reread the post you originally quoted
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