Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Lore Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-19-2010, 05:47 PM
Taruun Taruun is offline

Hippogryph Rider
Taruun's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 210

Default The Shattering: spoiler-tastic summary

This is gonna be a basic summary of plot points. IMHO this is Christie Golden's best book yet, and you really owe it to yourself to read it. Golden has an excellent eye for both detail and characterization, and she has REALLY improved a character like Thrall over Lord of the Clains. I mean, the book is dedicated to Golden's readers. My summary can't do it justice, but if you want to know the basic details of what happens, here they are. (I don't see how all this can possibly included in the game, so this may be the only place we hear of it)

If the mods need this moved to another thread or deleted, that's fine. I apologize for any rules I'm breaking. Again, reading the book is far more interesting than my dull summary.

It opens with Drek'Thar, who is more and more senile and having worse and worse dreams ever since the Nightmare War. He has a vision of the cataclysm and says Thrall needs to know right away, but his aide decides not to pass on the word because Drek'Thar's visions are growing false. Once he envisioned orcs slaughtering a meeting of kaldorei and tauren druids, but nothing ended up happening.

Cairne arrives in Borean Tundra to bring Garrosh and the last few soldiers home (except for Saurfang and a few others who are staying). The Kvaldir attack, but Garrosh and Cairne and the warriors repel them (it turns out Garrosh hid a whole bundle of grenades right in the middle of Warsong Hold, just in case. This impressed Cairne because some orcs are too much into that "victory or death" thing to conceive of a worst-case scenario like that, although he still thinks Garrosh is hotheaded etc.). Garrosh is real popular, even if he didn't singlehandedly kill the Lich King like some stories say. But his bold gambles keep paying off.

On the way back a freak storm appears and tosses the ship around and randomly disappears. An Alliance ship was blown into Horde waters by the same storm, badly weakened, and despite raising a white flag Garrosh boards them and kills a lot of the soldiers. But not all, as he lets the captain and a few others go in Horde lifeboats with Horde rations, saying that he is both death and life to them.

There's a huge parade in Orgrimmar, although mainly orcs/tauren/trolls as the Forsaken and blood elves were doing their own campaigns. Thrall gives Garrosh Gorehowl, reminding him that it has killed both Mannoroth and Cenarius.

Later Thrall is talking with Cairne and Garrosh, talking about how they chose to settle in Durotar because it was a harsh place that only orcs could tame, but now with these weird droughts it's getting harder to live in. Plus the night elves are keeping the Horde completely out of Ashenvale after the Wrath Gate. (Also, both sides are so exhausted from the Northrend war that a general truce has been called, even in WSG and AB and AV.) Garrosh says they should just go and take what they need, but Cairne and Thrall decide to let Hamuul Runetotem speak to the kaldorei druid-to-druid to negotiate. Garrosh storms out and runs into Magatha Grimtotem. Turns out the Grimtotem were the only tauren tribe to never officially join the Horde, but Magatha is all creepy-approving to Garrosh. Cairne returns home to peaceful Mulgore.

Jaina attends a memorial service in Stormwind cathedral for the people lost in the war against the Scourge. The number of Alliance who died is up to 50,000, but at least 20,000, it's not given exactly. Two sentinels burst in to say that the Horde attacked an Ashenvale convoy, and methodically butchered the bodies. Lo'gosh takes over Varian and goes into a rage, but calms down later (his two halves have never really become one). Anduin (who's 13 now….old enough to be pretty smart) sees the whole thing. Varian and Jaina decide for Jaina to give him a hearthstone to Theramore so he can visit her when he wants (not like that, though ).

Thrall (with Eitrigg) and Jaina meet in secret. Thrall says that he cannot do everything Varian wants him to do about the treaty violation - he can apologize for the treaty being broken, but not for the violence and he can't turn those responsible over to the Alliance. It would be too submissive of a gesture for the Horde and its Warchief to make. Jaina is upset and they leave in disagreement. Thrall talks to Eitrigg and decides to go to Outland to learn from the shaman there about the weird behavior of the elementals (which is the root cause of everything).

Jaina talks to Anduin and Anduin talks to Varian (who BTW totally knows that Jaina and Thrall have been meeting but trusts her anyway). The "death" of Bolvar hit Anduin pretty hard, because Bolvar basically was his father all through vanilla (and he thinks Bolvar is dead now). Varian decides to send Anduin to Ironforge to learn warrior things under Magni (though Anduin is more into the Explorer's League libraries).

Orgrimmar burns in a fire, and the elementals will not calm down at Thrall's command (this is where the scene in the preview is). Gazlowe can rebuild Orgrimmmar, but it's gonna cost a LOT (even after he lowers the price twice). Thrall realizes now more than ever that he needs to go to Nagrand, for the sake of the whole Horde, but who will lead when he is gone?
Cairne: some people think he's too old and out of touch. Plus not an orc.
Saurfang the elder: still reeling from son's death, plus too old as well. Same for Eitrigg.
Saurfang the younger: Best choice, but dead.
This leaves…..
Thrall actually realizes that he might have given the wrong impression of Grom to Garrosh and maybe helped to inflame his ego. But the Horde needs a strong leader, and if the elemental issue isn't solved nothing else matters.
Garrosh wants to serve the Horde more than anything but actually tells Thrall that he knows nothing of ruling. Thrall says that he'll have advisors to help him, and Garrosh agrees to do this for the Horde.

Anduin arrives and settles into Ironforge. He trains to be a warrior every day under a woman named Aerin, but never really enjoys it (although he and Aerin begin to bond). He loves spending time in the Hall of Explorers, and the Hall of Mysteries with High Priest Rohan. He really bonds with Magni as well. Then one day Magni summons him to show him a tablet from Ulduar, from the earthen, 10,000 years old. Magni thinks that a tablet like this could be the key to understanding the elemental weirdness, which is at the cause of everything.
Later on there are crazy earthquakes. Ironforge takes some damage but Kharanos is nearly destroyed. Anduin demands to go there and help, and he does (I guess he's been leveling his first aid). Aerin dies when the Thunderbrew Distillery collapses, which hits Anduin hard.
Magni tells Anduin that the tablet and the rituals on it, for "becoming one with the earth" have been translated, and he himself will carry them out. He's also noticed that Anduin really shined when helping to rescue and heal others, plus how much High Priest Rohan has taken to him, and maybe Anduin has a different path before him, a priest. He gives him a 1h mace, Fearbreaker, several hundred years old, and the weapon bonds to Anduin and glows with Light.
Anduin, Magni, and several others go into Old Ironforge (described exactly like those screenshots show) to perform the ritual. But oh snap, the tablet was literal and the Magni is now diamonds. (He heard all the voices of the earth before it happened, but then screamed in horror before he was transformed.)
All the Alliance leaders send representatives to the funeral, plus a tauren and blood elf from the Horde, and some goblins. But the dwarves are generally stunned at what happened.

Thrall signs off as warchief, but before he leaves, Cairne shows up and basically tears into him for making such a stupid choice, saying that the Thrall he knew would never have done this. Thrall stands by his decision because he knows there's no other option, and tells Cairne it's his choice whether he wants to aid Garrosh or be stubborn. Then he leaves Orgrimmar.

This is the last time Thrall and Cairne ever speak.

end of part 1
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-19-2010, 05:53 PM
Taruun Taruun is offline

Hippogryph Rider
Taruun's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 210

Default

Thrall arrives in Nagrand, but Greatmother Geyah says she's too old to give him in-the-field training. Aggra will help him instead, even though they both start bickering at each other pretty much instantly. Aggra keeps calling him Go'el instead of that "human slave name".

Before Muradin or Brann can come back from wherever they are to lead Ironforge, Moira shows up. She and Anduin go into a little political sniping word-dance, but the throne of Ironforge is legitimately hers. Moira quarantines all the gryphons of Ironforge for "sickness" and shuts down the Deeprun Tram for "repairs" and starts arresting all the mages with her Dark Iron guards. Basically the city is cut off and Anduin is inside. Ironforge is stable, barely, but civil war is imminent.

Garrosh is rebuilding Orgrimmar after the fire, but it's different from before….at least the new design won't allow another fire to happen.
Cairne has been around Garrosh but leaves when it's clear Garrosh isn't listening to him. He sends Hamuul off to meet with his Cenarion Circle buddies in Ashenvale (Remulos won't let an initial meeting take place in Moonglade because there is still a potential for violence).

The kaldorei and tauren meet up in Ashenvale, and the meeting opens well, but orcs attack and kill them all. (They're working for Twilight's Hammer, but no one ever figures this out) Hamuul wakes up in a mass grave and manages to dig his way out and convince an owl to send a message to Cairne.

Garrosh is getting himself tattooed so that all can see he is not afraid of pain, by the apprentice to the orc who tattooed his father.
Cairne shows up and tears into Garrosh for the orc attack. Garrosh doesn't really know what this is about but rolls with it, and all the tension between the two of them comes out. Cairne challenges to a mak'gora, and Garrosh accepts but says it will be done the old way, the way that Thrall stopped: to the death. Cairne agrees gladly. They both get one weapon, blessed by one shaman, and no armor. Magatha offers to bless Gorehowl, saying that not all tauren stand against Garrosh….
It looks like Cairne might have won this, although we'll never know because at Garrosh's first blow Cairne falls and dies.
That night, Magatha puts a plan into effect that she's been planning for years - every tauren city or town from Sun Rock Retreat down to Camp Mojache is seized by Grimtotem. The slaughter at Thunder Bluff is almost indiscriminate, although every powerful shaman/druid/warrior is slain in their beds. Most of the Forsaken in the Pool of Vision support Magatha or just don't care. A shaman assigned to attack Bloodhoof Village and kill Baine helps him escape instead. They escape to Taurajo, but they can't go to Orgrimmar until they know if Garrosh was complicit with Magatha or not. Undercity is also full of orcs nowadays. Ultimately their only choice is to go to Theramore and Jaina.

Anduin and Moira have an awesome conversation full of political barbs. Anduin accuses Moira of having a father who never accepted her for what she was (speaking from experience, of course ). Moira drops down her guard and says that Thaurissan gave her respect, not any BS mind control spell. But she also says that now, she is in control of both the Dark Iron and Bronzebeard empires, making her an empress. And she's not letting Anduin go anywhere. Anduin decides he has to escape and hearths to Theramore…appearing right in front of Jaina and Baine.

Drek'Thar turns lucid briefly when he hears that his visions have come true after all and Cairne is dead. His aide starts taking his visions of cataclysm more seriously and sends a missive to find Thrall.

Thrall sheds the Doomhammer and black plate to become an initiate again, and has an incredible and moving vision quest with Aggra…I can't do it justice in a summary. Basically he realizes that the elements have been present with him in all his life's experiences (and when Water is linked to the speech Taretha gave him about tears in LotC )
He then goes to the Throne of the Elements to see the Furies there. They wish him well but don't really know what to do about totally different elements from a different planet that they've never met. Thrall does give a small stone from Azeroth to Gordawg, who tells him that the elementals are [i[]frightened[/i] of being wounded and destroyed, and are lashing out. And the last time he knew elementals to feel this way, Draenor was about to break apart. But what are they afraid of now?

Eitrigg helps Garrosh piece together how suspicious the duel was (Garrosh was too deep in the blood haze to notice himself). He realizes he has to silence suspicions before people start thinking he was involved. Oh yeah and the Grimtotem have taken over Thunder Bluff.

After the initial shock, Anduin and Baine actually start to get along a bit. Jaina gets word to Varian in secret that Anduin is okay. Talking over their respective problems, Baine eventually decides he cannot and should not attack Garrosh because the Horde would be torn apart (remember, he still doesn't know if Garrosh was in on the poisoning or not). Anduin gives Fearbreaker to Baine, and a blessing of the Light flows from him to Baine, and Baine speaks of An'she and Mu'sha.
(I know this sounds corny but Golden completely sells it. It's one of the better scenes in the book.)

Garrosh sends a beautiful insult of a letter to Magatha, tearing into her for depriving him of a righteous kill, and now he will never know who the true victor of the battle would have been. He says he will never stand with her.

Baine sends a representative to Gazlowe of Ratchet to buy some….supplies. Gazlowe actually lowers the price out of respect for who Cairne was!

They attack Thunder Bluff the only way possible….zeppelins. After a long and epicly written battle, Baine takes Magatha prisoner. He crushes all of her totems, which he knows will make the elements reluctant to help her for a long long while, offers mercy to any Grimtotem who will accept it, and banishes the rest of them to Stonetalon. He also says that if they ever plan ANYTHING against anyone again, he is coming for them with full Bloodhoof vengeance.

A freak storm floods Theramore - Jaina and Anduin help to fight back the waters. Jaina says that Anduin has to return to Stormwind now, but she accidentally lets slip that Varian is leading a crack SI:7 team through the Deeprun Tram to assassinate Moira and free Ironforge. Anduin (pretty nobly) states that Moira may be a tyrant but she is also the legitimate ruler of Ironforge and does not deserve death, but guidance. Jaina realizes that he's not a little kid anymore and ports him to Ironforge. He gets there just as Varian has his blades at Moira's throat.
Anduin gives a good speech where he points out that killing Moira will only lead to chaos and more bloodshed. He actually remembers and reuses some things Baine told him about how destruction is easy, but constructing is difficult and noble. Varian slowly agrees, and comes up with the idea for the Council of Three Hammers. He says that Moira has been given a second chance, but she'll be under close supervision, and not to screw it up.

Drek'Thar's message finally gets to Thrall, who realizes how much he might have screwed up by going to Nagrand when the Horde went through this crisis. But Aggra reminds him that what he's learned will allow him to save everything, and a warchief should not have made any other decision. And she says she's coming with him.

They get back to Thunder Bluff, where Thrall attends Cairne's funeral. He talks to Cairne/himself, saying how much he will miss him (he calls him and the tauren the "spiritual center" of the Horde), but he also realizes that, as much as he does not want it to be so, the right choice is beckoning him to the Maelstrom.

KABOOM CATACLYSM

And Drek'Thar has one final vision: "Someone is breaking down the door! Bar it! Do not let him in!"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-19-2010, 08:40 PM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

Eternal
Sports72Xtrm's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,688

Default

Good summary Taruun thanks for it.
__________________
Dis my Jam
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-19-2010, 08:46 PM
Twofootfury Twofootfury is offline

Arch-Druid
Twofootfury's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,232

Default

A tauren at Magni's funeral? Interesting.
__________________
Everything that is, is alive.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-19-2010, 08:51 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,532

PvP Symbol - Horde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twofootfury View Post
A tauren at Magni's funeral? Interesting.
AND a blood elf.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-19-2010, 08:56 PM
Jigsaw Complex Jigsaw Complex is offline

Sentinel Queen
Jigsaw Complex's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Stormwind
Posts: 871
Send a message via AIM to Jigsaw Complex Send a message via MSN to Jigsaw Complex Send a message via Yahoo to Jigsaw Complex

Default

@Twoft and Sky

I've always said that the Alliance's problem is with the Forsaken and the Orcs. The Tauren and Belfs really don't need to be enemies of the Alliance, so it's kind of a good showing of things to come imo. Either way, it's respectful.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
The thought of Genn and them entering Darnassus amuses me.

'Yea see that purple light? Just walk into that to enter the city. Just trust me you'll be fine!'.

We are Sex Bob-Omb! And we're here to make you think about death and get sad and stuff!

"By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth." - George Carlin
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-19-2010, 08:57 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,532

PvP Symbol - Horde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigsaw Complex View Post
@Twoft and Sky

I've always said that the Alliance's problem is with the Forsaken and the Orcs. The Tauren and Belfs really don't need to be enemies of the Alliance, so it's kind of a good showing of things to come imo. Either way, it's respectful.
I have no issue with it, i just mentioned it because i thought it might bug twofoot >.>


Personally belfs have gotten much to close to high elves imo XP
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-19-2010, 09:29 PM
Taruun Taruun is offline

Hippogryph Rider
Taruun's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 210

Default

The blood elf and tauren (who aren't named) are only mentioned in passing, but the guy who gives the funeral address says that Magni would be glad to have them there because they come with "good hearts an' plenty o' respect." It's implied that they're there directly from Thrall, before he hands over command.

I'd be willing to answer other questions as well. But again, it's a good book! You should read it!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-19-2010, 09:48 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

Ethermancer - Admin
Cantus's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: DC, U.S.
Posts: 11,092
BattleTag: Cantus#1700

Default

Wait, a good warcraft novel...I...I can't believe it.

Thanks Taruun for the epic summary.
__________________

Rationalizing the irrational since 2005.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-19-2010, 09:50 PM
Twofootfury Twofootfury is offline

Arch-Druid
Twofootfury's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,232

Default

I find the tauren being there interesting because of all the hulabaloo between the tauren and dwarves in Vanilla.

It does kinda make sense a blood elf was there, considering blood elves were previously Alliance. I'm sure at least one or two of those degenerates respected Magni.
__________________
Everything that is, is alive.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-19-2010, 10:56 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,532

PvP Symbol - Horde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twofootfury View Post
I find the tauren being there interesting because of all the hulabaloo between the tauren and dwarves in Vanilla.

It does kinda make sense a blood elf was there, considering blood elves were previously Alliance. I'm sure at least one or two of those degenerates respected Magni.
Well magni 'died' in an attempt to heal the earth, the tauren would respect that.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-20-2010, 03:18 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

Elune
Lon-ami's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 12,552
BattleTag: Lonami#2916

Default

Various comments as I read your summary:

-Garrosh attacks humans because he wants, and then he saves them. He's just wtflol.

-Thrall's comment about Gorehowl having killed both Cenarius and Mannoroth is awesome.

-I don't like "guys who attacked night elves should be given to Varian". If something, they should be given to Tyrande. Wtf Varian isn't the warchief of the Alliance.

Overall, AWESOME.

Thanks a lot for the summary, probably the best book to date, with loads of references, characterization and further development on plots, locations and races.

And, best of it, it felt "realistic", unlike Stormrage that was like "woot a giant nightmare suddenly wants to kill everyone, popping out from nowhere!". That one felt too exaggerated.
__________________


Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter)

~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-20-2010, 04:19 AM
Drz Drz is offline

Elune
Drz's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,402

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taruun View Post

Jaina attends a memorial service in Stormwind cathedral for the people lost in the war against the Scourge. The number of Alliance who died is up to 50,000, but at least 20,000, it's not given exactly. Two sentinels burst in to say that the Horde attacked an Ashenvale convoy, and methodically butchered the bodies. Lo'gosh takes over Varian and goes into a rage, but calms down later (his two halves have never really become one). Anduin (who's 13 now….old enough to be pretty smart) sees the whole thing.
Are you telling me that Golden decided that when Simonson merged the two Varians, they're still inbalanced? The Warrior side of Varian was always the stronger one, thats why Onyxia even seperated them in the first place, but now you're telling me they still struggle on this persona thing, while its been obvious since the comic book that Varian became a whole, just much stronger and experienced then before.

Quote:
Saurfang the younger: Best choice, but dead.
Honestly this is disappointing fan-wank from Golden. Saurfang the Younger was truly an Youngling Orc, with practically no experience on anything whatsoever, yet Golden ignores this and wants to go with the flow on the whole Saurfang fan-praise? Am i the only one whos worried whats going to happen with Thura Saurfang? Will she be the one who unites the Horde and the Alliance? This Saurfang love is scaring me. :*(

Quote:
Anduin arrives and settles into Ironforge. He trains to be a warrior every day under a woman named Aerin
Dwarf Females, fuck yeah! <3




Quote:
and tells Cairne it's his choice whether he wants to aid Garrosh or be stubborn. Then he leaves Orgrimmar.
Am i the only one worried that Golden's book is going to clash againts what the game is going to show? Remember all the arguments who the Lich King was? Was it Arthas? Was it Ner'zhul? Who was it? Now we got the same problem with us ingame seeing Garrosh kindly wanting to listen to Eitrigg and Cairne, yet Golden is showing us that the relationship with Cairne and Garrosh went downhill due to their political differences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taruun View Post

Garrosh is getting himself tattooed so that all can see he is not afraid of pain
I was hoping those tattoos would be symbols. :p


Quote:
Anduin and Moira have an awesome conversation full of political barbs. Anduin accuses Moira of having a father who never accepted her for what she was (speaking from experience, of course ).
Are you implying that Anduin is a son that was never accepted for what he was? Did Golden really write that? Please tell me i read this wrong.

Quote:
Garrosh sends a beautiful insult of a letter to Magatha, tearing into her for depriving him of a righteous kill, and now he will never know who the true victor of the battle would have been. He says he will never stand with her.
I like how totally dedicated Garrosh is to his visions and beliefs or respect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
-Garrosh attacks humans because he wants, and then he saves them. He's just wtflol.
It's about spreading fear about the Horde under Garrosh. Stories will always work in Medieval times.

PS. Thanks Taruun!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-20-2010, 04:34 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

Elune
Lon-ami's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 12,552
BattleTag: Lonami#2916

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz View Post
Are you telling me that Golden decided that when Simonson merged the two Varians, they're still inbalanced? The Warrior side of Varian was always the stronger one, thats why Onyxia even seperated them in the first place, but now you're telling me they still struggle on this persona thing, while its been obvious since the comic book that Varian became a whole, just much stronger and experienced then before.
There were already "hints" of the split affecting Varian. I find it pretty logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz View Post
Honestly this is disappointing fan-wank from Golden. Saurfang the Younger was truly an Youngling Orc, with practically no experience on anything whatsoever, yet Golden ignores this and wants to go with the flow on the whole Saurfang fan-praise? Am i the only one whos worried whats going to happen with Thura Saurfang? Will she be the one who unites the Horde and the Alliance? This Saurfang love is scaring me. :*(
What? Dranosh Saurfang was 10 times better than Garrosh. When he was at outland, he kicked everyone's ass, while Garrosh hide in a corner and cried.

It's not fanwank from Golden, it's Garrosh fanboyism by your part.

Thura sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz View Post
Dwarf Females, fuck yeah! <3
QFT .
__________________


Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter)

~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-20-2010, 04:56 AM
Drz Drz is offline

Elune
Drz's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,402

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
There were already "hints" of the split affecting Varian. I find it pretty logic.
No there hasn't. Varian was his own self once he became full again. The only difference being that you could name his warrior side as Lo'gosh instead of saying "Aggressive" side.


Quote:
What? Dranosh Saurfang was 10 times better than Garrosh.
Saurfang was a younglish who was consumed by rage. Garrosh had been leading the Mag'har with Thrall's Grandmother againts Ogres, Murkbloods and other threaths. Things only went downhill when Grandmother got sick, but hey all leaders in Warcraft have had their bad eras, yet you don't see people going "Magni, Thrall, Tyrande and Varian" are shit leaders.


Quote:
it's Garrosh fanboyism by your part.
No fanboyism from me buddy. If you can't argue with actual lore, stop bothering with this forum.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-20-2010, 05:34 AM
tufy tufy is offline

Arch-Druid
tufy's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,652

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz View Post
Honestly this is disappointing fan-wank from Golden. Saurfang the Younger was truly an Youngling Orc, with practically no experience on anything whatsoever, yet Golden ignores this and wants to go with the flow on the whole Saurfang fan-praise?
You don't place a youngling at the head of one of your most important offensives ever. Even back in nagrand, he was ??Boss. Even prince Anduin doesn't have that.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-20-2010, 05:42 AM
Drz Drz is offline

Elune
Drz's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,402

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tufy View Post
You don't place a youngling at the head of one of your most important offensives ever.
Varok placed his own son at Wrathgate, because Draenosh understood honor, which is a moot point since Garrosh also became to understand what Varok meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tufy View Post
Even back in nagrand, he was ??Boss. Even prince Anduin doesn't have that.
Ofcourse he was a ?? Boss as they wanted to keep the whole Saurfang badassery humour. Does Anduin have any levels now that hes 14-16? Or is he still counted as a child and thus isn't killable.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-20-2010, 05:57 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

Elune
Lon-ami's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 12,552
BattleTag: Lonami#2916

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz View Post
No there hasn't. Varian was his own self once he became full again. The only difference being that you could name his warrior side as Lo'gosh instead of saying "Aggressive" side.
Depends on interpretation. I always saw that side of him as the dominant Lo'Gsh part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz View Post
GARROSH was a younglish who was consumed by rage. Garrosh had NOT been leading the Mag'har with Thrall's Grandmother againts Ogres, Murkbloods and other threaths. Things only went WORSE when Grandmother got sick, but hey NO leaders in Warcraft have had SUCH bad eras, SO you don't see people going "Magni, Thrall, Tyrande and Varian" are shit leaders.
Fixed for ya.

And, since you love sources so much, take your character to Nagrand and speak with Jorin Deadeye. There you have all you need about Outland Garrosh. Reading BtDP would be a good idea, too.

Now, give me a single source to confirm Garrosh wasn't a fucking douchebag before Thrall gave him a visit. Come on, I'm waiting for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz View Post
No fanboyism from me buddy. If you can't argue with actual lore, stop bothering with this forum.
Interesting that you say that, without giving any sources yourself, anyway.

And no, the "You're a Garrsoh hater!" argument won't work with me, because I like the progression he has followed. However, I hate people that modify his background like that.

As fro Dranosh, everything about him was awesome and cool, a guy that kicked asses like his father. If quests aren't enough, Golden provides an enough deep description of why Thrall favored him so much.
__________________


Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter)

~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-20-2010, 06:04 AM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

Elune
Gurtogg_Bloodboil's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,393

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz View Post
Saurfang was a younglish who was consumed by rage. Garrosh had been leading the Mag'har with Thrall's Grandmother againts Ogres, Murkbloods and other threaths.
To be fair, he wasn’t any younger than Garrosh. They both had to be alive before the Dark Portal closed and probably before their fathers left for war, so that makes Saurfang the Younger at least in his mid-20s. Saurfang the Younger also was leading successful assaults in Northrend and showed the ability to work in conjunction with the alliance against a common enemy, which is something Thrall would like.

Also, they both have nepotism going for them. If Varok was indeed Doomhammer’s second in command, he was a bigger deal then we’d originally thought. He does have a legacy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz View Post
you don't see people going "Magni, Thrall, Tyrande and Varian" are shit leaders.
We kind of do see people with those complaints, especially on SoL.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-20-2010, 06:37 AM
Urth Urth is offline

Eternal
Urth's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,914

Default

A couple things:

1. I'll be disappointed if this book, as epic as it is, is the only explanation of events on Thunder Bluff and Ironforge. I was looking forward to playing through a siege of TB and IF, taking part in the liberations there. But it seems the only pre-Cataclysm events we'll see/feel is the Elemental Invasions and the various re-tuned dungeon bosses. Still, I can understand the hesitancy to do another Undercity quest, with as many bugs as I've experienced when playing through it. Plus we've never seen it on the PTR.

2. It seems obvious that they are pushing for Anduin to class Priest. I'm not sure how I feel about that. It shows light at the end of the tunnel, especially in light of his obvious skills in diplomacy toward Moira and Baine. But it's awfully strange that a significant protagonist is shown to class in a way that's not drenched in rage and testosterone. Plus he gave away a Dwarven heirloom to a Hordie. I actually would have preferred Anduin to eschew ALL current classes, or seek to learn bits of all of them the hard way.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-20-2010, 06:42 AM
Curll Curll is offline

Arch-Druid
Curll's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,491

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
Depends on interpretation. I always saw that side of him as the dominant Lo'Gsh part.



Fixed for ya.

And, since you love sources so much, take your character to Nagrand and speak with Jorin Deadeye. There you have all you need about Outland Garrosh. Reading BtDP would be a good idea, too.

Now, give me a single source to confirm Garrosh wasn't a fucking douchebag before Thrall gave him a visit. Come on, I'm waiting for them.



Interesting that you say that, without giving any sources yourself, anyway.

And no, the "You're a Garrsoh hater!" argument won't work with me, because I like the progression he has followed. However, I hate people that modify his background like that.

As fro Dranosh, everything about him was awesome and cool, a guy that kicked asses like his father. If quests aren't enough, Golden provides an enough deep description of why Thrall favored him so much.
I couldn't agree with you anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-20-2010, 06:59 AM
Drz Drz is offline

Elune
Drz's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,402

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
Depends on interpretation. I always saw that side of him as the dominant Lo'Gsh part.
Thats exactly why they were split in the first place..... Lo'Gosh is always the dominant one, but this review is like showing that the two Varians are having a inner conflict inside their head.

Quote:
And, since you love sources so much, take your character to Nagrand and speak with Jorin Deadeye.
Yes Jorin is being pissed because it was a dire situation when the players come in, is this your way of arguing that Thrall as a whole is also a shit leader, because during the start of a novel things are going bad? Is 1 situation truly the answer to say the whole leadership run has been bad?

Quote:
Now, give me a single source to confirm Garrosh wasn't a fucking douchebag before Thrall gave him a visit. Come on, I'm waiting for them.
Why do i need to say anything about how he behaved? I'm talking about him being a leader, not whenever or not he was a douche to some. Garrosh has always been shown pro-Strong races, anti-weaklings.

Quote:
Interesting that you say that, without giving any sources yourself, anyway.
Oh sure, what do you need me to relink for the 10th time again? Ask away and i'll answer.
Quote:
I hate people that modify his background like that.
What did i modify? He's referred as the Chieftain, hes been there and so much. Do i really need to waste my time giving you wowhead links because of your stubborness?
Quote:

As fro Dranosh, everything about him was awesome and cool, a guy that kicked asses like his father. If quests aren't enough
The quests where i either kill for him or act as an diplomat are enough to appoint him as the Warchief? Well holy heck, that means any Orc is avaiable as a Warchief by your logic, they just need a badass father that the fanbase likes! Surely this isn't anyway fan wanking at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurtogg_Bloodboil View Post
To be fair, he wasn’t any younger than Garrosh.
He's referred as a Youngling which either indicates his young age or his experience in life.
Quote:
which is something Thrall would like.
Oh certainly, but is it something that the Horde needs right now? I don't believe so, and the Orcs do end up happy in Cataclysm when they start receiving more wood and other materials.

Quote:
We kind of do see people with those complaints, especially on SoL.
Pfft screw them, then!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-20-2010, 07:21 AM
Joshmaul Joshmaul is offline

Arch-Druid
Joshmaul's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lowell, Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 1,093
Send a message via Yahoo to Joshmaul

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz View Post
Thats exactly why they were split in the first place..... Lo'Gosh is always the dominant one, but this review is like showing that the two Varians are having a inner conflict inside their head.
One of Varian's "pissed" quotes in WoW is "I'm of...two minds about all this." A hint, perhaps?

Quote:
Why do i need to say anything about how he behaved? I'm talking about him being a leader, not whenever or not he was a douche to some. Garrosh has always been shown pro-Strong races, anti-weaklings.
This blood elf player would like to show him who's the weakling, he who sat downstairs in Icecrown Citadel while I fought the fucking Lich King. (Haven't KILLED him - yet - but still...)

Quote:
He's referred as a Youngling which either indicates his young age or his experience in life.
Did they actually establish Garrosh's age? BtDP implies that Garrosh is actually older than Thrall, but Thrall refers to him as "young Hellscream" at least once.
__________________


Horde: Eaglespear - Joshmaul - Sekhesmet - Malkus - Kitrik - Suzl
Alliance: Devaneaux - Jaedenlaek - Vendross - Zherron
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bornakk
…the ritual came to a close and a demon of untold power (but limited stature) was pulled through the void, kicking and biting and gnashing its teeth, forcibly bound to the mortal world. The warlock, a quizzical expression on his face, regarded his familiar, who was in fact now quite unfamiliar, and inquired, "Who in the hell are you?"
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-20-2010, 07:35 AM
Thekar Thekar is offline

Ranger
Thekar's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 345

Default

Garrosh acts like an angry, headstrong kid for a lot of his appearances where he's not moping. So even if he's older than Thrall he acts younger.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-20-2010, 07:42 AM
Rashid Rashid is offline

Arch-Druid
Rashid's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,448

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshmaul View Post
but Thrall refers to him as "young Hellscream" at least once.
Well he's not the old Hellscream, certainly.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Thank goodness Golden handled Rise of the Horde, or it might have started with the tale of the Eredar leaders Archie and Jay being seduced by the power of the Dark Titan Gary while their close friend Lenny fled Argus to escape the corruption.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.