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View Poll Results: Should they have been playable?
Yes, glad they're playable 22 56.41%
No, they should have stayed a NPC race. 13 33.33%
Yes, because Panda butt. 4 10.26%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:06 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Your Pandaren musings remind me of my own fanboyistic Worgen musings.
Was going to ask if Anne was your sister/wife.
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  #27  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:21 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Yet the whole time, we had Taran Zhu saying "War and fighting is wrong, now if you'll excuse me I have some genocide to commit on my enemies."

In addition to the faction war being truly horribly written, the mogu had the reverse problem of the pandaren. The Mogu were purely evil without any culture or depth aside from oppressing pandaren and being allied with the Zandalar who Blizzard had likewise retconned into always having been pure evil.
I'm going to be needing some sourcing for all three of these, because they all sound silly.
-Taran Zhu never tried to commit genocide, even a localized one (his appearances were Jade Forest, trying to keep outlanders out of the vale, hunting down one sha, being possessed by another sha, leading a small strike team on Isle of Thunder and getting shanked by Garrosh).
-5.1 gave the mogu plenty of depth through the story of Lei Shen's struggle to reshape them into the new titanic guardians, and their fall from that grace into simple thugs.
-where exactly were the zandalari retconned into being 'always pure evil'?


Ignoring that, pandaren being an unlockable race sounds pretty sane to me. Just make 'em available after the east/westwind quests.
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  #28  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:40 PM
Anne_Neritas Anne_Neritas is offline

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Originally Posted by JorgeAxe View Post
Yet the whole time, we had Taran Zhu saying "War and fighting is wrong, now if you'll excuse me I have some genocide to commit on my enemies."

In addition to the faction war being truly horribly written, the mogu had the reverse problem of the pandaren. The Mogu were purely evil without any culture or depth aside from oppressing pandaren and being allied with the Zandalar who Blizzard had likewise retconned into always having been pure evil.
Taran Zhu didnt really do jack crap between 5.0 and 5.4. In 5.1, he was just a quest giver, in 5.4, he was quite justified.
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  #29  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:41 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Taran Zhu didnt really do jack crap between 5.0 and 5.4. In 5.1, he was just a quest giver, in 5.4, he was quite justified.
*stares at 5.2*

What?
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  #30  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:48 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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The way I see it is this: you can't look at the pandaren the same way you would look at the other races. Dwarves, tauren, trolls, elves, all of them have racial conflicts that pull them into the greater world (aight, maybe not tauren so much, but humor me). The Pandaren do not. When you play a pandaren you're not setting out to fight your racial foes or protect your homeland, you're setting out as an adventurer because that is what you want to be. Don't look towards Taran Zhu to be your racial exemplar, look to Chen. He's a guy who had a cushy, safe life on the Isle which he gave up because he wanted adventure, he wanted to see the world, and he wanted to reach what he saw as his full potential. That's what the pandaren are about: not a racial struggle, not an existential threat, but the logical extension of the culture's love of life as manifested in wanderlust and thrill-seeking.They're not soldiers, they're not crusaders, they're not militant ideologues, they''re adventurers in the purest possible sense, and personally that's what I like about them, and it's why Chen is my favorite character in WoW.
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  #31  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:52 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
I'm going to be needing some sourcing for all three of these, because they all sound silly.
-Taran Zhu never tried to commit genocide, even a localized one (his appearances were Jade Forest, trying to keep outlanders out of the vale, hunting down one sha, being possessed by another sha, leading a small strike team on Isle of Thunder and getting shanked by Garrosh).
-5.1 gave the mogu plenty of depth through the story of Lei Shen's struggle to reshape them into the new titanic guardians, and their fall from that grace into simple thugs.
-where exactly were the zandalari retconned into being 'always pure evil'?


Ignoring that, pandaren being an unlockable race sounds pretty sane to me. Just make 'em available after the east/westwind quests.
- Taran Zhu;
* He shows absolutely no mercy to the Mogu or Zandalar tribe. Nor does he even try to aim for a peaceful resolution. Genocide is a bit of an exaggeration, but regardless Zhu shows no second thoughts towards attacking his enemies. Thus when Taran Zhu tries to maintain a moral highg-round, he comes off as a hypocrite who doesn't practice what he preaches.
* Some Pandaren quests asks you to kill NPC's labeled "Zandalari Refugee" but its ok because Pandaren are GUD while the Zandalar are and have always been EVUL.
- They painted the Mogu with all the stereotypical evil traits, there are no good intentioned mogu in the game, ETC.
- The Zandalar were an "EVUL" race of creatures;
* they love to eat the flesh of their enemies to taste their suffering despite the troll compendium explicitly saying they're not cannibalistic.
*they've always had an ancient empire of EVUL which brutalized the Night Elves and GUD Pandaren, whats that about the Zandalar not creating an empire like the Amani and Gurubashi, preferring to remain in the shadows?
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  #32  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:58 PM
Afaslizo Afaslizo is offline

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I think Pandaren should have joined Alliance with Yaungol been absorbed by the Horde. Would have made Pandaria different and more interesting.
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  #33  
Old 11-29-2013, 05:16 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I think Pandaren should have joined Alliance with Yaungol been absorbed by the Horde. Would have made Pandaria different and more interesting.
Agreed 200%

Yaungol are better in every way, let the Alliance keep the pathetic dawnchaser and Baine the spineless.
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  #34  
Old 11-29-2013, 05:42 PM
Eterna Eterna is offline

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I think it as a good decision to make them playable. They really do nothing for me personally but I know plenty of people like them. I just wish they added more to their respective factions.

I hope that at the least some Horde and Alliance NPC's will be Pandaren in WoD. Even if it is something small like guards.

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I play a Pandaren shaman, but I'm definitely race changing him after this expansion. I can't fathom the idea of being totally irrelevant in every expansion after this, having no purpose or reason to be anywhere.

I love Pandaren lore, but they shoved it under the boss in favour of the faction war. What a tragedy…and now the Pandaren are lost without a purpose.
I really don't get this sentiment. The Wandering Island Pandaren are part of either the Horde or Alliance now. Your purpose it to fight for the Alliance or Horde, Stormwind and Orgrimmar are your new homes.

That alone is the reason I never stopped playing Draenei despite their irrelevance. Alliance Lore is my lore because my character is more than just a Draenei, she is a soldier of the Alliance.

Last edited by Eterna; 11-29-2013 at 05:49 PM..
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  #35  
Old 11-29-2013, 05:45 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Agreed 200%

Yaungol are better in every way, let the Alliance keep the pathetic dawnchaser and Baine the spineless.
I don't want pathetic and spineless characters/races though.
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  #36  
Old 11-29-2013, 05:49 PM
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I don't want pathetic and spineless characters/races though.
You've already got them as Draenei c'mon.
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  #37  
Old 11-29-2013, 05:52 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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You've already got them as Draenei c'mon.
Well I don't want MORE.
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  #38  
Old 11-29-2013, 05:53 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Agreed 200%

Yaungol are better in every way, let the Alliance keep the pathetic dawnchaser and Baine the spineless.
Baine only became spineless with his poor leader story, though.

The Old Baine was willing to fight his enemies if they refused his warnings.
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  #39  
Old 11-29-2013, 06:04 PM
Eterna Eterna is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
You've already got them as Draenei c'mon.
How are Draenei Spineless? They've survived more hardship than most of the races and yet they still endure.
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  #40  
Old 11-29-2013, 06:08 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Baine only became spineless with his poor leader story, though.

The Old Baine was willing to fight his enemies if they refused his warnings.
He punished his people for fighting back against Bael'modan, gave a free pass to the Taurajo firebombing, and let Magatha get away.
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  #41  
Old 11-29-2013, 06:13 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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He punished his people for fighting back against Bael'modan, gave a free pass to the Taurajo firebombing, and let Magatha get away.
Yeah that was after his leaderstory wimpled him up.

Remember, the Baine in Vanilla WoW, who led attack on the Bael'Dun dwarves after they refused to stop driving the animals mad with their digging?
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  #42  
Old 11-29-2013, 06:27 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Yeah that was after his leaderstory wimpled him up.

Remember, the Baine in Vanilla WoW, who led attack on the Bael'Dun dwarves after they refused to stop driving the animals mad with their digging?
Elementals you mean, and he just had us kill Gnolls.

Dwarves he just had us steal their tools.
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  #43  
Old 11-29-2013, 06:32 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Elementals you mean, and he just had us kill Gnolls.

Dwarves he just had us steal their tools.
Well Baine did say in the quest "the dwarves' digging will enrage the kodos of Mulgore. This defilement must be stopped!"

And how did we get those tools, by beating up dwarves.

Anyway, that shows a clear difference from Baine's later portrayal.

Original Baine: You messed with the bull now you get the horns!
New Baine: Derp, lets try to reason with the quilboar who've been butchering my people.

Thats what happen you choose a poor fanfiction to make official.

Last edited by JorgeAxe; 11-29-2013 at 06:35 PM..
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  #44  
Old 11-29-2013, 06:49 PM
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Regardless, bad fanfiction baine is who we have as canon now.
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  #45  
Old 11-29-2013, 06:52 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
Regardless, bad fanfiction baine is who we have as canon now.
We also got Bad Fanfiction Garrosh for Mists Of Pandaria. Here's how I imagine Blizzard thought "Hmm everyone dislikes this Garrosh characters due to his wildly inconsistent characterization, I know lets make his personality even more wildly inconsistent as a generic raidboss in the new expansion!"

At least with Baine, there's still a chance of redemption.
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  #46  
Old 11-29-2013, 09:28 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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The pandaren we were given don't fit with any of the factions really in the way they were done. And even then Blizzard didn't show Aysa and Ji much since they felt players would complain about even the factions being dominated by pandas.
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  #47  
Old 11-29-2013, 09:34 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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The pandaren we were given don't fit with any of the factions really in the way they were done. And even then Blizzard didn't show Aysa and Ji much since they felt players would complain about even the factions being dominated by pandas.
Blizz always goes to far to the extremes with things like this.
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