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  #26  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:13 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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As opposed to using Gilneas as a check on further Forsaken incursions?

Really, this 'retaking of Lordaeron' thing has been fetishisised to an absurd level.
Then maybe Blizzard shouldn't have dangled the proverbial carrot in front of our eyes since 2003.
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  #27  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:15 PM
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Then maybe Blizzard shouldn't have dangled the proverbial carrot in front of our eyes since 2003.
Blaming Blizzard for the overly dramatic reactions of their playerbase?

L.

O.

L.
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  #28  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:17 PM
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Surwich is neat. I want more like that :3
I want more of this post almost as much as I want more of Surwich.

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Then maybe Blizzard shouldn't have dangled the proverbial carrot in front of our eyes since 2003.
HA!
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  #29  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:19 PM
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I want more of this post almost as much as I want more of Surwich.
I want Ravenhill to be repaired and used by the Worgen there. If it can't be rebuilt in the Gilnean style for whatever reason, as least repair the buildings there and use them, there is no reason those worgen should be in tents and carriages, while they have a very real and long-term goal to carry out in Duskwood that will take a long time.
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  #30  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:27 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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The big issue with the forced "Worgen have Nightelf ties" thing is that they... kinda don't. Their curse may have Nightelven Origins, but THEY do not. Their culture, personality history all lack that. They ARE humans, with human lives, emotions and now wolf urges.

But they did not.

In their implimentation what you are given is simply an urge to run and hunt out in the forests... thats as close to the Nightelven ideals as you get without new indoctrination into their culture.
Yup, yup. That's one thing that Blizzard seemed to have rushed in order to get Cata out on time. The worgen get paperclipped directly in the night elf story as if the Gilnean worgen have the same exact concerns/history with the night elves. I just want some more Gilnean in the worgen. Show them trying to integrate their Gilnean traditions, putting their own spin on druidism rather than just being shoehorned into night elf culture. Have them put their own Gilneaness on the worgen trees since not every single Gilnean is a worgen.

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Surwich is neat. I want more like that :3
Me too. I love how it looks and the atmosphere of it. Very Lovecraftian.

I just wish that there was more to do with it and it wasn't such a ghost town, even though they explain why. I guess that it just confirmed what the CDevs said about Gilneas houses and their love of it, but have a very hard time fitting it outside of Gilneas.
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  #31  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:37 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Blaming Blizzard for the overly dramatic reactions of their playerbase?

L.

O.

L.
Blaming Blizzard for playing up the Scourge as the biggest threat to the world and the primary reason why Lordaeron is a cesspit and then making it even worse after the Scourge is removed? Yes.

If Blizzard intended for Lordaeron to be be purely undead territory from Warcraft 3 onward then they shouldn't have exhibited the Argent Crusade successfully cleansing the land and making farms there in Cataclysm. They should have emphasized that the continent simply cannot sustain life anymore, and wouldn't be able to for thousands of years.

I would've been fine giving it up to the Forsaken if that were the case, but instead Blizzard is saying "Look at what you'd be able to do with it if it was yours! But it will never be yours! Psych!"
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  #32  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:45 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Blaming Blizzard for playing up the Scourge as the biggest threat to the world and the primary reason why Lordaeron is a cesspit and then making it even worse after the Scourge is removed? Yes.

If Blizzard intended for Lordaeron to be be purely undead territory from Warcraft 3 onward then they shouldn't have exhibited the Argent Crusade successfully cleansing the land and making farms there in Cataclysm. They should have emphasized that the continent simply cannot sustain life anymore, and wouldn't be able to for thousands of years.

I would've been fine giving it up to the Forsaken if that were the case, but instead Blizzard is saying "Look at what you'd be able to do with it if it was yours! But it will never be yours! Psych!"
And we learned a valuable lesson, don't put a DK in charge of a human-only "expedition", who is BFF with a Horde DK, and who puts the safety of his BFF above the mission success.

Also, who was the genius that decided to have Westfall farmers go to WPL, which is directly next door to Forsaken/Horde territory and expect them not to get attacked? It's not like the AC are going to come to the rescue.

Also, you know that the Forsaken have val'kyr and Sylvanas ain't afraid to use them, so next time, why not use the guys who put her off her game and are immune to her val'kyr- the worgen... at least they won't play fair when it comes to the Forsaken...... I hope....
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  #33  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:49 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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The Alliance taking Lordaeron is like Wolverine dating Jean Grey. Its a divisive subject, there are raging debates over who 'rightfully' should have it but, ultimately, you know Wolverine isn't going to end up with Jeannie and that, honestly, that's probably for the better.
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  #34  
Old 11-22-2011, 01:53 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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My kinda thread... let's not derail it.

I think the major crux of the issue with the Worgen and the Alliance is... what do they offer? Yes they're a race that adds a darker tint and a more ruthless and savage edge for the overall sophisticated and noble Alliance but do they really need that? I'd say they do for better diversity, but I'm sure a lot of players who often love the trope of being a hero and doing good things for their faction probably wouldn't like partnering up with a race of savage monsters that want to slaughter everything left and right. So that in itself is one problem, people can't handle an inherent darkness in their stark whiteness. They don't like a little black paint smeared on their bright canvas. That in itself, might be one of the race's downfalls at this point.

Another issue is, in comparison, you got the Goblins and their role in the Horde is obvious. They're a crafty race with cunning ingenuity and they fill the role of the race that helps the faction industrialize better while also helping them expand more. Why are the Horde so capable of expanding their territories in various different parts of Kalimdor? Goblins. Why are they so capable of taking up new studies such as Alchemy and the like? Goblins. Why are they so capable of traversing to different parts of Azeroth? Goblins. So in this view, the Goblins have been the major technological backbone of the Horde and their role in the faction is so easy to fill. When you have a race like Worgen... they haven't had any prior history with the Alliance other than Gilneas leaving them, as well as not having any pros to them that could really add something to the already well rounded Alliance.

I think a lot of suggestions have been thrown around pretty handily for what to do with the Worgen. I really don't know if they should either shack up with the Night Elves or the Humans at this point, I'm more worried that having them do either would mean they'd start to just act more like a furry version of that race instead of taking up a personality on their own. It took a good bit of outside media storytelling to really justify Worgen joining the Alliance and being a genuine race. I don't think that's a bad thing, but it means they're going to lag behind in development because the bulk of it went to justification for their existence. So while the Goblins are well developed because they've been around since WC2, the Worgen and Gilneas itself aren't so much because they've only been introduced in WC2 but have never made any further development after their separation from the Alliance and their isolation from the outside world.

Those are at least the biggest problems I think are the weakening the race. I'll think of more suggestions here soon.
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  #35  
Old 11-22-2011, 02:21 PM
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It's worth noting that the Alliance was so well-rounded (humans, dwarves, night elves, gnomes) even much prior to the worgen (and arguably the draenei, for that matter) such that there was next to no niche that could have been possibly filled by a new race.
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  #36  
Old 11-22-2011, 02:23 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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My kinda thread... let's not derail it.

I think the major crux of the issue with the Worgen and the Alliance is... what do they offer? Yes they're a race that adds a darker tint and a more ruthless and savage edge for the overall sophisticated and noble Alliance but do they really need that? I'd say they do for better diversity, but I'm sure a lot of players who often love the trope of being a hero and doing good things for their faction probably wouldn't like partnering up with a race of savage monsters that want to slaughter everything left and right. So that in itself is one problem, people can't handle an inherent darkness in their stark whiteness. They don't like a little black paint smeared on their bright canvas. That in itself, might be one of the race's downfalls at this point.

Another issue is, in comparison, you got the Goblins and their role in the Horde is obvious. They're a crafty race with cunning ingenuity and they fill the role of the race that helps the faction industrialize better while also helping them expand more. Why are the Horde so capable of expanding their territories in various different parts of Kalimdor? Goblins. Why are they so capable of taking up new studies such as Alchemy and the like? Goblins. Why are they so capable of traversing to different parts of Azeroth? Goblins. So in this view, the Goblins have been the major technological backbone of the Horde and their role in the faction is so easy to fill. When you have a race like Worgen... they haven't had any prior history with the Alliance other than Gilneas leaving them, as well as not having any pros to them that could really add something to the already well rounded Alliance.

I think a lot of suggestions have been thrown around pretty handily for what to do with the Worgen. I really don't know if they should either shack up with the Night Elves or the Humans at this point, I'm more worried that having them do either would mean they'd start to just act more like a furry version of that race instead of taking up a personality on their own. It took a good bit of outside media storytelling to really justify Worgen joining the Alliance and being a genuine race. I don't think that's a bad thing, but it means they're going to lag behind in development because the bulk of it went to justification for their existence. So while the Goblins are well developed because they've been around since WC2, the Worgen and Gilneas itself aren't so much because they've only been introduced in WC2 but have never made any further development after their separation from the Alliance and their isolation from the outside world.

Those are at least the biggest problems I think are the weakening the race. I'll think of more suggestions here soon.
You are on to something there in your first paragraph, but let me pull it a different way....

It's been said and linked what Blizzard previously, and going by J. Allen Brack interviews, about the "darkness" and "un-Alliance" they are suppose to be. And in way, just going by their look, excepting the female worgen, they have achieved that goal. The worgen stand out from the other Alliance races, just like the draenei stand out. Now here comes the crux- from a personalitywise, it's fallen rather flat because the Alliance can't have a dark race that actually acts dark around them, it's not the Alliance's kit. The Alliance is Paragon Shepard while the Horde is Renegade Shepard. Paragon Shepard is not going to act dark or selfisly and based upon how Blizzard presents both factions, if the Alliance races started to act like Horde races, and in a way Varian is the most Horde-like of the Alliance, people are going to get angry because that's not how the Alliance is suppose to act. Just look at how the forums are up in arms about the High King and saying that the Alliance is becoming just a pale copy of the Horde and the like. People play the Alliance for certain reasons and those reason can't allow the Worgen to be anywhere near "Forsaken/Horde-like" so the worgen, while acting different in Silverpine, act like night elves the rest of the time ebcause their "darkness" doesn't work in the Alliance.

But when you go into Silverpine, you are actually seeing the worgen in a different light that more matches what Blizzard had kept telling us. The Forsaken are afraid of the worgen, they don't act like Alliance and they certainly don't fight like Alliance. But who are the only players that see this? The Horde.

But that doesn't work for the Alliance. The Alliance doesn't fight like that. The Alliance isn't about sacrificing people just to blow up their enemies. So the worgen just have to slink off to the woods, or wherever else they are hiding because they can't act like want to.

Have the worgen be identified as Gilneas and bring that Gilnean industrial edge to the anture-centric society that they seem to be building. Human and worgen alike combining forces to move Gilneas forward isntead of the worgen and their love of nature overwriting everything while the human Gilneas get shoved further and further into irellevancy.

Worgen just need to break from the night elves and be treated as allies, rather then be pets, or underlings who can't do anything without a night elf minder nearby. While the night elves blame themselves for creating the worgen in the first place, it was Genn Greymane who unleashed the worgen on Gilneas. It's understandable that he feels thankful for the night elves rescuing his people, but he is still a Gilnean who udnerstand that they need to stand on their own without having to be so utterly dependant on the night elves for everything. The goblins are a refugee race as well, although you would never know it since they do such a good job of integrating into the Horde and standing on their own two feet.

Lastly, present being a worgen as a curse and not just a superpower. Solving the curse in the starting zone really prevented a lot of good storytelling and with it having no downsides, why not turn all of the humans into them as well? You'll be immune to being raised by the val'kyr and you will have superior strength and agility that puts you either on the same level as a orc/tauren and night elf or above.

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It's worth noting that the Alliance was so well-rounded (humans, dwarves, night elves, gnomes) even much prior to the worgen (and arguably the draenei, for that matter) such that there was next to no niche that could have been possibly filled by a new race.
I agree with that. Which is why I'd love to see the worgen create a technodruidic cutlture and integrate nature and technology.
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  #37  
Old 11-22-2011, 02:32 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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The whole issue with the Worgen curse not feeling like a curse and yet humans still don't want to take it is sort of reminiscent to how Blizzard deals with the Night Elves and their immortality problem. It's just "there" but it's never explained in a good light, just dangled over our heads or just placed in the background and only given offhand mention. It's sort of annoying but I'm guessing it's an attempt to keep ambiguity in the game. (Which is something they really need to fix up on.)

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It's worth noting that the Alliance was so well-rounded (humans, dwarves, night elves, gnomes) even much prior to the worgen (and arguably the draenei, for that matter) such that there was next to no niche that could have been possibly filled by a new race.
Exactly, which is an issue that I think should be addressed by giving each Alliance race a supposed specialty. Worgen Druidism should be different from Night Elf Druidism in a way. Dwarf Paladins should be different from Human Paladins. Gnomes should look at the Light differently from other Light worshiping races.

There's actually a good thread about it on the Story Forums as well: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3580919839
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  #38  
Old 11-22-2011, 02:42 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Lastly, present being a worgen as a curse and not just a superpower. Solving the curse in the starting zone really prevented a lot of good storytelling and with it having no downsides, why not turn all of the humans into them as well? You'll be immune to being raised by the val'kyr and you will have superior strength and agility that puts you either on the same level as a orc/tauren and night elf or above.
I can agree with the sentiment here about the curse being solved too soon. I remember before Cata released people kept making the comments about how its not a curse. I used to defend the worgen by making the comparison that Blizzard decided to be lazy with them, and used the Blood Elves as a comparison.

"Basically, if you want an idea of what they're doing with the worgen, just imagine if in the Blood Elves' starting zone, you cleansed the Sunwell, complete with M'uru's spark to reignite it, before getting off of Sunstrider Isle."

It really summed up my thoughts, and I'd rather we had gone an expansion searching for the Scythe of Elune and getting it from some Cultist or something at the end who was going to use it to try and turn all the worgen into Old-God-Worshiping beasts. Then it could have been used to cure the rage issues.


In any case, I persist in saying that the state of being is a curse, purely by social standards. Yeah, you're stronger, faster, more enduring, maybe even longer lived, etc... strange how -no- humans want it though, and how they're literally at a, "Die and be Forsaken, or become worgen," moment before they decide to become worgen. It speaks leagues about how worgen are perceived by the world.




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I agree with that. Which is why I'd love to see the worgen create a technodruidic cutlture and integrate nature and technology.
Ugh, no, keep your tech out of my nature, please. We don't need wolves in battle-suits with beams that make flowers bloom.
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  #39  
Old 11-22-2011, 03:07 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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It really summed up my thoughts, and I'd rather we had gone an expansion searching for the Scythe of Elune and getting it from some Cultist or something at the end who was going to use it to try and turn all the worgen into Old-God-Worshiping beasts. Then it could have been used to cure the rage issues.

In any case, I persist in saying that the state of being is a curse, purely by social standards. Yeah, you're stronger, faster, more enduring, maybe even longer lived, etc... strange how -no- humans want it though, and how they're literally at a, "Die and be Forsaken, or become worgen," moment before they decide to become worgen. It speaks leagues about how worgen are perceived by the world.
Precisly about the point on the blood elves. It would've been cool to see more downside to the whole fel energy drinking thing for the player rather then the boogeyman of the Wretched, but loved the wretched as a example of what happens when the magic goes away...

We know that the world hates the worgen pre-cata. Remember the worgen questlines in WotLK, didn't exactly speak of them with high regard and we know that Tobias Mistmantle has to stay human while in Darkshire because otherwise he would be killed on sight.

That Hillsbrand moment was really... interesting and part of me chalk it's up to have no prior experience with the Gilneas worgen and not knowing all of the good things that will happen to you when you take the blessing. They were literally squating on the front porch of UNdercity after having their homes turned into a plague filled swamp and a death camp, that would put anyone on edge.

But the rest of the Alliance seems to love the worgen and have no issues with them at all except for this I find it interesting that, if you go look at every single battle the Horde and Alliance are involved in, as in the armies fighting each other and outside of Gilneas and Silverpine, the worgen are not fighting alongside the Alliance. Ashenvale? Off dealing with the fire elemental while the night elves are fighting the Horde. STM? With the Horde practically on their doorstep, the night elves are fighting alongside the draenei and stormwind forces while the worgen sit in their night elf hut and hunt black dragons to feed their dogs. Ferelas? While the night elves are battling naga and Grimtotem, the worgen stand off to the side and just watch. TH? Alliance and Horde fighting all over the place and the worgen don't bother to show up. Southern Barrens? Just two or so show up and don't do anything while the Alliance is fist deep in fighting the Horde.

Personally I think that this shows some very interesting things: The Alliance doesn't fight alongside worgen, maybe because they don't want to be turned? Or the worgen need their hunting time so much that they can't leave the woods, or perhaps the losses in Gilneas were so much that there isn't much of a population left and more of them decided to fight for Gilneas rather then help the Alliance.

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Ugh, no, keep your tech out of my nature, please. We don't need wolves in battle-suits with beams that make flowers bloom.
Nah, the battlesuits are being build by the Dark Iron for the Alliance's war golems and battleborn.

If we can have technomages, then I want technodruids.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:12 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Precisly about the point on the blood elves. It would've been cool to see more downside to the whole fel energy drinking thing for the player rather then the boogeyman of the Wretched, but loved the wretched as a example of what happens when the magic goes away...

We know that the world hates the worgen pre-cata. Remember the worgen questlines in WotLK, didn't exactly speak of them with high regard and we know that Tobias Mistmantle has to stay human while in Darkshire because otherwise he would be killed on sight.

That Hillsbrand moment was really... interesting and part of me chalk it's up to have no prior experience with the Gilneas worgen and not knowing all of the good things that will happen to you when you take the blessing. They were literally squating on the front porch of UNdercity after having their homes turned into a plague filled swamp and a death camp, that would put anyone on edge.

But the rest of the Alliance seems to love the worgen and have no issues with them at all except for this I find it interesting that, if you go look at every single battle the Horde and Alliance are involved in, as in the armies fighting each other and outside of Gilneas and Silverpine, the worgen are not fighting alongside the Alliance. Ashenvale? Off dealing with the fire elemental while the night elves are fighting the Horde. STM? With the Horde practically on their doorstep, the night elves are fighting alongside the draenei and stormwind forces while the worgen sit in their night elf hut and hunt black dragons to feed their dogs. Ferelas? While the night elves are battling naga and Grimtotem, the worgen stand off to the side and just watch. TH? Alliance and Horde fighting all over the place and the worgen don't bother to show up. Southern Barrens? Just two or so show up and don't do anything while the Alliance is fist deep in fighting the Horde.

Personally I think that this shows some very interesting things: The Alliance doesn't fight alongside worgen, maybe because they don't want to be turned? Or the worgen need their hunting time so much that they can't leave the woods, or perhaps the losses in Gilneas were so much that there isn't much of a population left and more of them decided to fight for Gilneas rather then help the Alliance.



Nah, the battlesuits are being build by the Dark Iron for the Alliance's war golems and battleborn.

If we can have technomages, then I want technodruids.
I'm honestly not happy about technomages either. I'm less happy about technodruids.


And this whole, 'The hunt,' business is in my opinion, the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It sounds like a rehash of the same old, same old. Blood Elves and Addiction, Death Knights and their Hungering, now Worgen and the need to Hunt? Just no... I cringed reading that in Wolfheart. If you want the Hunt to mean something to the worgen, to be a spiritual thing, fine, but don't make it act like they -need- to hunt every day ending in Y or turn feral, its just ungodly retarded, you've see entire forests devoid of game in a matter of days.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:13 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Alliance should specialize more in robotics and hijack some of those Iron Dwarves, Vrykul, and Giants, imo.

As for Gilnean Druidism, I've wanted it to take on a more horrific appearance while still being incredibly natural. The Lore for it could be that the Worgen simply channel their Druidism differently from the Night Elves, so it comes out more wicked and strange looking. They could emphasize more carnivorous forms of plantlife, such as Venus Flytraps and have more of a Blackwald theme to their summons. I can just imagine them summoning treants that take on the shape of twisted wolves or Ancients that are more spiky and emphasize a sort of horror aesthetic in that they're twisted and warped beyond beauty. The Thorn Sprites from early concept art would have also made great looking summoned creatures for these type of Druids. (Perhaps they would be as terrifying as maybe even Demons.)

It's been more my idea that Worgen should be more of a horror monster race in the same way that Forsaken emit that feeling when they're out and about. Let's see a more horror twist of Druidism, making it more fearsome and horrifying while still keeping it overall natural due to its magic source. I think it would work out fine in the end.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:16 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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I rather liked the Celtic undertone Gilnean Druids had in the beginning of their starter zone, and wish we could have seen that elaborated on heavily.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:22 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
I'm honestly not happy about technomages either. I'm less happy about technodruids.

And this whole, 'The hunt,' business is in my opinion, the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It sounds like a rehash of the same old, same old. Blood Elves and Addiction, Death Knights and their Hungering, now Worgen and the need to Hunt? Just no... I cringed reading that in Wolfheart. If you want the Hunt to mean something to the worgen, to be a spiritual thing, fine, but don't make it act like they -need- to hunt every day ending in Y or turn feral, its just ungodly retarded, you've see entire forests devoid of game in a matter of days.
And when I read that in Wolfheart, I thought that Blizzard was finally telling us exactly why the worgen had been such a nonfactor for the Alliance outside of their starting zone- they are all off in the woods hunting!

I will admit that I am on the fence about it. While it does make sense for worgen, being corrupted wolves, to have a strong need for the hunt, it really does take way from their participation and integration into the Alliance and the game as a whole. It's like telling the players that were are going to give you werewolves, but you'll never see them because they will either stay in human form or are out in the woods off camera.

If they were to integrate them better and try to have the worgen aspect of themselves not so overwhelming to their personality and actually have balance instead of what appears to be their worgen side taking over, at least in the books, it's not really explained or elaborated on in game, then having the "hunt" aspect would be keeping with their new character...

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As for Gilnean Druidism, I've wanted it to take on a more horrific appearance while still being incredibly natural. The Lore for it could be that the Worgen simply channel their Druidism differently from the Night Elves, so it comes out more wicked and strange looking. They could emphasize more carnivorous forms of plantlife, such as Venus Flytraps and have more of a Blackwald theme to their summons. I can just imagine them summoning treants that take on the shape of twisted wolves or Ancients that are more spiky and emphasize a sort of horror aesthetic in that they're twisted and warped beyond beauty. The Thorn Sprites from early concept art would have also made great looking summoned creatures for these type of Druids. (Perhaps they would be as terrifying as maybe even Demons.)
Glad that we are on the same page. I've had the same thoughts and posted similar wishes. The worgen are a corruption of a natural form. They aren't natural, they are abherations that don't belong in nature. Look at the Blackwald, and the othe worgen trees. They have a very definite evil/creepy presence. They have fluid leaking out and pieces of night elf structures, wrapped and crushed, sticking out. Even how the "blessing" is spread, through blood and violence that corrupts a person and transforms them into a feral nightmare that attacks both friend and foe.

Their druidism should be a reflection of that corruption. The night elves should be scared of the horrors that they have unleashed and watch as the corrupting influcene of the worgen basically turns the areas around them into these dark and nightmarish places that fit the mood of the worgen and the night elves are going to be forced to figure out how to cure this or stop this from turning the nature they love into a dark and twisted Felwood like place.

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
I'd honestly just rather the Hunt was a spiritual thing, a way to connect to Varian, honor the Wolf God, etc...
Fixed that for ya
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:26 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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I'd honestly just rather the Hunt was a spiritual thing, a way to connect to Goldrinn, honor the Wolf God, etc...

Let's not make it the latest, "Do this or else," racial drawback. You want to make the worgen curse an actual curse, fine, just do so in a different way.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:27 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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They should be allowed to hunt Orcs, not just game.

Then it'd be a useful tool for the Alliance, and not just "Oh look, the forest is depopulated of stags. Darn."
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:21 PM
FeralHeart FeralHeart is offline

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There is a line in wolfheart where malfurion tells the alliance representatives at the banquet to vote the worgen into the alliance that "the gilneans have tamed their curse, and the worgen are now forever a force of good in the world". Infer from that what you will.

After reading wolfheart, it's clear to me that the more wolverine anti hero trope they were originally planning for the worgen was dropped like a hot coal. It seems that they have opted for another route, making the worgen the nature affiliated, primal, savage animal folk, who, deep down, are still human in their emotions. I got a mean vibe from them, but that was only to jarod, maeiv, and nera when they went to interogate the worgen for the highborne murders, but that was only because nera and maeive had been constantly accusing them of the murders, they were, rightfully, pissed.

It makes more sense of course, when you think about it. Worgen were originally going to be horde, and goblins alliance, which is probably the reason they were going to opt for a dark, morally ambiguous personality. While the goblins would've been brighter in their tone. When adding them to the alliance, I guess they just didn't think it made sense, so they gave up on that idea.

The other reason I think is because, well, simply look at the worgen. Their anthropomorphic wolves, anthro animals, who are in control of their minds and emotions. I have a very hard time picturing a race of anthropomorphic wolves, or any other mammalian anthro, being dark anti heroes. What makes more sense to me, is for such a race to be nature loving, savage, loners who simply prefer to be away from civilization and hunt and be one with nature, acting like the animals that they resemble, only their minds are that of sane humans.


I really just have a hard time picturing certain anthropomorphic animal races being, er, morally questionable. I think them being more simplistic, savage, animalistic nature folk who hunt and live in the woods makes more sense, they are animal people after all.

Maybe if they were, like, snake people........hmm, snake people......


Well, I like this route they're taking with the worgen, but I only want blizzard to explain one thing: where the hell did the scythe of elune go after the worgen starting area? Do the druids have it in their possestion? Did they destroy it?

Last edited by FeralHeart; 11-22-2011 at 04:26 PM..
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:22 PM
Kadifa Kadifa is offline

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
I want Ravenhill to be repaired and used by the Worgen there. If it can't be rebuilt in the Gilnean style for whatever reason, as least repair the buildings there and use them, there is no reason those worgen should be in tents and carriages, while they have a very real and long-term goal to carry out in Duskwood that will take a long time.
I second this. Plus, allow the Night Watch to have some involvement (more on that in a future thread that I'll be making).
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:28 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by FeralHeart View Post
I really just have a hard time picturing certain anthropomorphic animal races being, er, morally questionable. I think them being more simplistic, savage, animalistic nature folk who hunt and live in the woods makes more sense, they are animal people after all.
The thing is, the Worgen weren't always Worgen. They were once human, and those identities, and the moral systems included in those moralities, never went away. If a wolf acted like a wolf, that's his nature, it's not morally questionable. If a HUMAN acts like a wolf, then that's morally questionable. See the difference?
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:29 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by FeralHeart View Post
There is a line in wolfheart where malfurion tells the alliance representatives at the banquet to vote the worgen into the alliance that "the gilneans have tamed their curse, and the worgen are now forever a force of good in the world". Infer from that what you will.

After reading wolfheart, it's clear to me that the more wolverine anti hero trope they were originally planning for the worgen was dropped like a hot coal. It seems that they have opted for another route, making the worgen the nature affiliated, primal, savage animal folk, who, deep down, are still human in their emotions. I got a mean vibe from them, but that was only to jarod, maeiv, and nera when they went to interogate the worgen for the highborne murders, but that was only because nera and maeive had been constantly accusing them of the murders, they were, rightfully, pissed.

It makes more sense of course, when you think about it. Worgen were originally going to be horde, and goblins alliance, which is probably the reason they were going to opt for a dark, morally ambiguous personality. While the goblins would've been brighter in their tone. When adding them to the alliance, I guess they just didn't think it made sense, so they gave up on that idea.

The other reason I think is because, well, simply look at the worgen. Their anthropomorphic wolves, anthro animals, who are in control of their minds and emotions. I have a very hard time picturing a race of anthropomorphic wolves, or any other mammalian anthro, being dark anti heroes. What makes more sense to me, is for such a race to be nature loving, savage, loners who simply prefer to be away from civilization and hunt and be one with nature, acting like the animals that they resemble, only their minds are that of sane humans.

I really just have a hard time picturing certain anthropomorphic animal races being, er, morally questionable. I think them being more simplistic, savage, animalistic nature folk who hunt and live in the woods makes more sense, they are animal people after all.

Maybe if they were, like, snake people........hmm, snake people......

Well, I like this route they're taking with the worgen, but I only want blizzard to explain one thing: where the hell did the scythe of elune go after the worgen starting area? Do the druids have it in their possestion? Did they destroy it?
You remind me a lot of another poster from here named Soldrethar...
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:33 PM
FeralHeart FeralHeart is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
The thing is, the Worgen weren't always Worgen. They were once human, and those identities, and the moral systems included in those moralities, never went away. If a wolf acted like a wolf, that's his nature, it's not morally questionable. If a HUMAN acts like a wolf, then that's morally questionable. See the difference?
I dunno, after reading wolfheart, they're more like wolves than human, even genn greymane, who I thought prefered his human form, apparently prefers to be in worgen form and hunts "for the hunt". A good example of this is when, after varian told the gilneans to fuck off and spat at genn, eadrik angrily steps toward varian, but then genn grabs eadrik. The two growl at eachother, then genn growls more ferociously at eadrik, which causes him to back away in fear.

It was like a male wolf challenging it's packleader, and losing. If they were still more human-like, there's no way in hell eadrik would've had the balls to growl at his king, nor would genn react the same. I'm surprised by this because genn is always standing around in human form in game and only in worgen form in combat. Hopefully they remedy this by updating his worgen form to look like the Glowei art, and have him in worgen form at all times.

I always thought they were more human like in their personality, until reading wolfheart and seeing that they have literally become walking talking wolves. Not that that's a bad thing. I was also surprised by the dark iron not being, well, dark. They seemed like douchebags, but they were shockingly lacking in dark persona. I'm still wondering why that is, I thought the dark irons were supposed to be, well, dark? Oh well, moira is still dark.

Last edited by FeralHeart; 11-22-2011 at 04:37 PM..
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