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Old 04-21-2014, 01:41 PM
perr0 perr0 is offline

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Default Anduin Lothar - beginning of Tides of Darkness

I just started to read a little bit more about WoW lore and I'm currently reading Tides of Darkness. I just don't get one thing from the beginning of the book.

Anduin leaves Stormwind Kingdom after the First War with all the army and civilians he could gather and sail to Lordaeron to tell them about the Horde invasion. In the book they say that Anduin sailed across the Great Sea. Although, as I understand it, it's not really across and not that far either. From Stormwind (north of Elwynn Forest) to Loardaeron (currently Undercity, South of Tirisfal Glades), both in Eastern Kingdoms, it's not that far and certainly not "across the Great Sea. What am I missing here?
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:45 PM
Reignac Reignac is offline

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At the time Kalimdor was unknown to the Eastern Kigndoms. "Across the Great Sea" meant basically north through Baradin Bay.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:47 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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You're thinking with the WoW map in mind, but WoW actually changed a lot of the earlier geography. At the time of warcraft II, which Tides of Darkness novelizes, the Eastern Kingdoms looked like this:

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Old 04-21-2014, 01:48 PM
Reignac Reignac is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
You're thinking with the WoW map in mind, but WoW actually changed a lot of the earlier geography. At the time of warcraft II, which Tides of Darkness novelizes, the Eastern Kingdoms looked like this:
Well, the novel was written after WoW's release so I don't think the author had that map in mind.
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You know, when I put the "i hate all of you" tag in threads, I'm not trying to be funny or cute. With a handful of exceptions, I really do hate almost everybody here.

It's one thing to have problems and voice your concerns, but when you endlessly bitch day in and day out about the same tired old shit, it honestly makes me wonder why you are even here. Generally when somebody doesn't like something, they stop caring about it.

And on that note, SoL is a forum I no longer enjoy. So, I'm done here. And I genuinely think the people who have absolutely nothing at all positive to say about the game and, the people whose posts are composed entirely of whining, really consider leaving (or at least sticking to non-WoW sections). Because if you truly get no enjoyment out of WoW, then why are you here?

With that said, goodbye.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:17 PM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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The entirety of the sea to the east was just a giant whirlpool and thick magical mists at that point, human sailors ventured out and said "Fuck that shit".
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:48 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
You're thinking with the WoW map in mind, but WoW actually changed a lot of the earlier geography. At the time of warcraft II, which Tides of Darkness novelizes, the Eastern Kingdoms looked like this:

This map was so much better than the current one.
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:57 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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No it wasn't. The new map made Khaz Modan bigger.

omg blizz has dwarf bias they gave them more lands than stormwind!!!!!1111!!!
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:29 PM
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No it wasn't. The new map made Khaz Modan bigger.

omg blizz has dwarf bias they gave them more lands than stormwind!!!!!1111!!!
The WC3/WoW map changed Stratholme from a lake town to an ocean town. Alterac and Stromgarde ceased being geo-political neighbors, as they now had Hillsbrad between them. Baradin Bay became a puddle you could spit across. Dun Modr went south of the Thandol Span. Blackrock Spire was actually in a mountain range instead of being a spire surrounded by flat lands and crevices of ash and soot. Kul Tiras was actually on the map.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:53 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Dun Modr went south of the Thandol Span.
You know, I actually have mixed feelings about this change. Under the new geography, Alliance Mission 5 (Tol Barad and Dun Modr) makes an amphibious landing behind the Horde frontlines. It would make it even more pressing for the Horde to retreat back across Thandol in Alliance Mission 6, to avoid being surrounded and destroyed. A part of me likes that.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:45 PM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbraid View Post
No it wasn't. The new map made Khaz Modan bigger.

omg thunderbraid has dwarf bias he is happy they gave them more lands than stormwind!!!!!1111!!!
Fixed.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:13 AM
perr0 perr0 is offline

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Thanks, that cleared it out.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:28 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by perr0 View Post
Thanks, that cleared it out.
If you want, you can keep posting your opinions on Tides of Darkness as you continue reading. It's like Grackle crack.


Last edited by BaronGrackle; 04-22-2014 at 01:45 PM..
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  #13  
Old 04-22-2014, 02:36 PM
Dawnfeld Dawnfeld is offline

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Tides of Darkness has some good parts; Lothar's appearances and battle scenes are a highlight, as is Thoras Trollbane. Lothar dying in a duel against Doomhammer is also better than him going out like a punk. But neutering the Second War and later with the UVG making it the lesser war between it and the First War (Despite including many more nations and covering more ground)? That is a travesty.
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:54 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnfeld View Post
Tides of Darkness has some good parts; Lothar's appearances and battle scenes are a highlight, as is Thoras Trollbane. Lothar dying in a duel against Doomhammer is also better than him going out like a punk. But neutering the Second War
Fully agree with you here.

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and later with the UVG making it the lesser war between it and the First War (Despite including many more nations and covering more ground)? That is a travesty.
I'm not sure what you mean here. If you're talking about the Timeline condensing the war within a single year, that crime was committed sometime between WCIII and WoW.

One neat thing about what the UVG did, is how it re-canonized the later battles in Khaz Modan by naming a "southern offense" that ended as "Alliance forces pushed the Horde back to the bridges of Thandol Span". That's pretty huge. There was nothing about that in ToD, and adding it back into the lore calls into question critical elements such as whether Doomhammer still retreated through Khaz Modan by land (could he still do it, if there was an Alliance frontline he had to pass through first?).

Yet it also said gnomes weren't part of the Alliance. I have mixed feelings on that.
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:52 PM
Dawnfeld Dawnfeld is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I'm not sure what you mean here. If you're talking about the Timeline condensing the war within a single year, that crime was committed sometime between WCIII and WoW.

One neat thing about what the UVG did, is how it re-canonized the later battles in Khaz Modan by naming a "southern offense" that ended as "Alliance forces pushed the Horde back to the bridges of Thandol Span". That's pretty huge. There was nothing about that in ToD, and adding it back into the lore calls into question critical elements such as whether Doomhammer still retreated through Khaz Modan by land (could he still do it, if there was an Alliance frontline he had to pass through first?).

Yet it also said gnomes weren't part of the Alliance. I have mixed feelings on that.
Yeah, I'm talking about the timeline condensing it, but at the same time I recall the UVG expanded the First War to lasting five years. That's where my objection lies. I don't mind the First War lasting five years in itself, but I mind the fact that the Second War is kept to one year in comparison. Granted, my memory of the UVG content is rather shoddy.

Neat that it re-canonized some of the other fronts of the Second War though, now if we could get more of the Second War stuff re-canonized that'd be good.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:01 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnfeld View Post
Yeah, I'm talking about the timeline condensing it, but at the same time I recall the UVG expanded the First War to lasting five years. That's where my objection lies. I don't mind the First War lasting five years in itself, but I mind the fact that the Second War is kept to one year in comparison.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:12 AM
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I wish that the timeline was extended such that it gave the orcs at least 15-20 years of living in Azeroth before beginning its organized assault on the Kingdom of Azeroth. The First War would still last five years. But it would mean that Garona could be a proper half-orc.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:35 AM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
I wish that the timeline was extended such that it gave the orcs at least 15-20 years of living in Azeroth before beginning its organized assault on the Kingdom of Azeroth. The First War would still last five years. But it would mean that Garona could be a proper half-orc.
Garona being a half draenei was absurd, not only does she look nothing like a Draenei, but the Old Horde already had a method to age children to adulthood.
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It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:56 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by JorgeAxe View Post
Garona being a half draenei was absurd, not only does she look nothing like a Draenei, but the Old Horde already had a method to age children to adulthood.
Because naturally we have hard precedents for which traits would be uniformly recessive when the genetics of orc and draenei are magically interbred...

Not to mention, magical aging was never indicated to mentally mature the orcs, and Garona was never portrayed as a physical adult with the mental development and life experience of a child.

Last edited by ARM3481; 04-23-2014 at 12:59 AM..
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:27 AM
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Because naturally we have hard precedents for which traits would be uniformly recessive when the genetics of orc and draenei are magically interbred...
Garona's parentage was a blatant retcon.

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Not to mention, magical aging was never indicated to mentally mature the orcs, and Garona was never portrayed as a physical adult with the mental development and life experience of a child.
That is absurd too.
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:38 AM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Not to mention, magical aging was never indicated to mentally mature the orcs, and Garona was never portrayed as a physical adult with the mental development and life experience of a child.


Except in the backstory for Garona given in the comic, she was still magically aged even though she was a draenei, and there was no need for it.

So yeah, she should've just been half human.
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It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:09 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by JorgeAxe View Post
Except in the backstory for Garona given in the comic, she was still magically aged even though she was a draenei, and there was no need for it.

So yeah, she should've just been half human.
Well not necessarily, because even with the magical aging, being a half-draenei gave her more time to have lived and learned things as it allowed for her to potentially exist for as far back as Gul'dan started using fel magic on Draenor.

Being half-human would have necessitated that she only have a comparatively very short amount of life and learning experience - basically since sometime after the opening of the Dark Portal - by the point when she met Khadgar and Medivh.

The magical aging explained how a half-human orc could physically be an adult at the time of TLG, but still left the glaring question of how she wasn't still a mental child with little to no life experience. Making her half-draenei at least justified her being portrayed as a reasonably knowledgeable and intelligent adult instead of a child in an adult's body, as she was able to have feasibly lived on Draenor for several years before going to Azeroth.
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