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Old 06-30-2013, 08:52 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Default Random Speculation/Worldbuilding/Creativeness

Sometimes you get an idea in your head that you want to showcase, but where?

Here is mine - Quel'dor, the earliest polity of Dathremar's Quel'dorei post-Sundering.

Meaning "High house", the name was, to elves themselves, a toponym for what they presumed to be a large island, thus calling it in a manner similar to the usual Kaldorei naming conventions.

Keeping to the coastal regions, the Highborne studied, and filled with enchantments a pine forest that would later became known as Silverpine, and also created settlements along the most potent leylines they discovered: Kal'Aran, "the city of stars", related to its exceptional arcane potency resulting in star-like arcane anomalies filling the sky, and Belore'dor, "the home of sun", the easternmost point discovered by the elves. The latter later grew larger and became known as Belore'dor'Aran, signifying its city-level status.

After the exodus of the Highborne from that area, the cities were abandoned, and their ruins were soon occupied by various roaming tribes. Nevertheless, the ancient Highborne architecture was later recreated and modified by the architects of Dalaran and Capital City, so not everything was completely lost.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:37 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Yeah that makes sense, more so for Dalaran's predecessor perhaps, making both towns ex-HE settlements is stretching it imo, especially since Capital City doesn't even have that much HE architectural influence if you ask me.

Also since humanity couldn't expand from Strom, to create Lordaeron, before they defeated the trolls one would think that just about the entire Lordaeron subcontinent was held by the Amani, so I don't think there would be any space between Quel'dor and the Amani empire.

Now of course this goes beyond your idea and concerns canon lore too. Since there is nothing said of significant troll resistance to their initial landing I can only imagine that the further out one got from Zul'Aman the more sparsely populated the land became. Additionally it is probable that the Amani had become terribly decentralized and disorganized, lacking any real opposition for centuries.

But the humans still couldn't advance and take land like the elves did, hell the elves later took over the Amani's spiritual center. This tells me that for a long, long time elves were more powerful that the humans, even Arathor's Strom was probably weaker than the elves since it couldn't expand much on its own. But at least Strom was comparable to the elves.

It is very telling that it took the Amani some 5-7k years (!) to mount a serious reclamation effort capable of routing the elves. That is why I think the Amani lands of the time were a collection of independent city states, too strong and proud to believe elves and humans could be a match for them until it was too late. By the time they got their asses in gear they had already lost too much, they were not used to working together so there was mistrust that mired them down further.
Also it is clear trolls were in some sort of cultural slump after the Sundering, probably being beaten by the night elves before and then having some of their land sink beneath the waves. It is likely most resorted to mass sacrifices and other zealous religious activity to get out of this mess, but it only regressed their culture and power further. There could have also been sectarian conflict between those who thought the Loa abandoned them and those who though they are not doing enough for the Loa.
This racial apathy, overabundance of pride and social degeneration is why I believe the Amani fell so easily to elves and humans.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:50 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Yeah that makes sense, more so for Dalaran's predecessor perhaps, making both towns ex-HE settlements is stretching it imo, especially since Capital City doesn't even have that much HE architectural influence if you ask me.
I was mostly coming from the shots of Capital City in Human intro cinematic. Them towers.

As for Dalaran, I think more high elven culture was involved when it was actually build, the Kal'Aran ruins just made sense to be there, both because of the leyline thing and the general cultural impact on population.

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Also since humanity couldn't expand from Strom, to create Lordaeron, before they defeated the trolls one would think that just about the entire Lordaeron subcontinent was held by the Amani, so I don't think there would be any space between Quel'dor and the Amani empire.

Now of course this goes beyond your idea and concerns canon lore too. Since there is nothing said of significant troll resistance to their initial landing I can only imagine that the further out one got from Zul'Aman the more sparsely populated the land became. Additionally it is probable that the Amani had become terribly decentralized and disorganized, lacking any real opposition for centuries.
Yep, I thought something like this. I also took it into consideration that the weak-Vrykul ended up on the northern coasts of Lordaeron without trolls killing them right there, then somehow made the Southern Lordaeron their main area of habitat.

I also assumed that the Amani empire had a lotf of infighting, and ALSO didn't proceed much beyond the Darrowmere ("spear-lake"), or at least was halted right there. Then I left an area in QT uninhabited by the trolls, because the highborne somehow had to "found a land which was reminiscent of Kalimdor. Deep within the northern forests of the continent, they founded the kingdom of Quel'Thalas and vowed to create a mighty empire which would dwarf that of their Kaldorei cousins. Unfortunately they soon learned that Quel'Thalas was founded upon an ancient troll city that the trolls still held to be sacred."

Which means that there was enough area for the settlement before the conflict between QT and the Amani started.

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But the humans still couldn't advance and take land like the elves did, hell the elves later took over the Amani's spiritual center. This tells me that for a long, long time elves were more powerful that the humans, even Arathor's Strom was probably weaker than the elves since it couldn't expand much on its own. But at least Strom was comparable to the elves.

It is very telling that it took the Amani some 5-7k years (!) to mount a serious reclamation effort capable of routing the elves. That is why I think the Amani lands of the time were a collection of independent city states, too strong and proud to believe elves and humans could be a match for them until it was too late. By the time they got their asses in gear they had already lost too much, they were not used to working together so there was mistrust that mired them down further.
Also it is clear trolls were in some sort of cultural slump after the Sundering, probably being beaten by the night elves before and then having some of their land sink beneath the waves. It is likely most resorted to mass sacrifices and other zealous religious activity to get out of this mess, but it only regressed their culture and power further. There could have also been sectarian conflict between those who thought the Loa abandoned them and those who though they are not doing enough for the Loa.
This racial apathy, overabundance of pride and social degeneration is why I believe the Amani fell so easily to elves and humans.
Thank you for the imput. I definitely think the Amani Empire was not a single monarchy, but a fragile alliance of many different tribes and city-states under the strongest Chieftain-Witchdoctor.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:15 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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I forgot that the troll sacred city in question was abandoned, good find. Though even then I wouldn't discount a small troll presence in the general QT area, just like there were trolls in the territory that would become Lordaeron the Kingdom.

Also it is fun to consider that humans were once the gnolls of the Amani dominion, a nuisance to be culled here and there, not even worth the effort to wipe out. Perhaps humans should pay closer attention to gnolls, or murlocs!
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:22 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Yeah, I probably should have placed troll "dots" along the rest of QT. I wonder what made them abandon the sacred cities?

I'm also interested in just what kind of a nomadic culture was prevalent among the humans. I imagine it was something like the Ashlanders' from TES - developed enough to grew settled in some time, but light enough to allow resettlement.

Gilneas and southern Silverpine would probably be populated by many little Germanic-like tribes.

Still, it's kinda weird to imagine nomads creating Western European-like kingdoms without any prerequisite settled culture. Maybe "nomads" is just tongue-in-cheek for "primitive tribes"?
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:51 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Well, it is not like the idea didn't exist, Amani cities were all around them at the time.

Besides I don't think a sedentary lifestyle is such a huge idea anyway, it began as soon as humans figured out agriculture in Mesopotamia. It is likely the human nomads were not nomads due to lacking that knowledge but because staying in one place a was a dangerous prospect due to trolls and other enemies.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:59 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Well, it is not like the idea didn't exist, Amani cities were all around them at the time.

Besides I don't think a sedentary lifestyle is such a huge idea anyway, it began as soon as humans figured out agriculture in Mesopotamia. It is likely the human nomads were not nomads due to lacking that knowledge but because staying in one place a was a dangerous prospect due to trolls and other enemies.
This IS a huge idea, because a lot of societies stayed (and stay) nomad for quiiite a long time, while some jumped into sedentary right from the Neolithic Revolution.

Nomadic lifestyle is based on animal husbandry, sedentary on agriculture (or any other "settled" type of getting food - for example, the shores of China had settlements risen around, technically, gathering (of seafood)). Something must have made the humans to stop and shift to farming. Maybe some epidemy/war weakened the trolls in the South, leaving the area uncontrolled and available for settling - but then, a lot of nomad peoples had the same prerequisite (lotsa free available land to build), and still continued their nomadic ways despite all reasons for the contrary.
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:14 PM
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Kul'tiras was successful at sea early on because some Sea Giants still loyal to the titans took pity on the early humans and safeguarded their voyages from sea monsters up until the Naga destroyed the sunken titan-facility of Uldantis.
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:41 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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This IS a huge idea, because a lot of societies stayed (and stay) nomad for quiiite a long time, while some jumped into sedentary right from the Neolithic Revolution.

Nomadic lifestyle is based on animal husbandry, sedentary on agriculture (or any other "settled" type of getting food - for example, the shores of China had settlements risen around, technically, gathering (of seafood)). Something must have made the humans to stop and shift to farming. Maybe some epidemy/war weakened the trolls in the South, leaving the area uncontrolled and available for settling - but then, a lot of nomad peoples had the same prerequisite (lotsa free available land to build), and still continued their nomadic ways despite all reasons for the contrary.
Like which nomads?

I think even the most primitive humans, like those from Pacific islands had developed sedentary lifestyles even while remaining in the prehistoric era otherwise. African and Asian nomads were such due to living in unfavorable areas (deserts and such...).

Still actual history aside, do remember that humans are descendants of vrykul, who had a very advanced and developed society. I do not think the vrykul just dropped off their human babies in some wilderness. They had to stay with them until they were strong enough to live on their own, I'd expect the spark of civilization to be imparted to the children in the process.
Now of course, then it comes down to weather or not you believe knowledge can be totally lost through millennia. I personally don't and I loath such plots, since even though the actual techniques may be lost the idea would remain, and the idea is all that matters.

That is how I see it anyway.
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:52 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Like which nomads?
The Mongols, the Manchurians, the Cumans, especially.

I think even Temujin wanted his people to settle down at first (leading to a conflict with his blood-bound "brother" who wanted the tribe to migrate again), until finding himself a masterful tactician and deciding to spend his life in campaigns instead.

But the Pechenegs and Cumans are especially flabbergasting, given that the region they populated is one of the most potent for agriculture EVER.

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Still actual history aside, do remember that humans are descendants of vrykul, who had a very advanced and developed society. I do not think the vrykul just dropped off their human babies in some wilderness. They had to stay with them until they were strong enough to live on their own, I'd expect the spark of civilization to be imparted to the children in the process.
Now of course, then it comes down to weather or not you believe knowledge can be totally lost through millennia. I personally don't and I loath such plots, since even though the actual techniques may be lost the idea would remain, and the idea is all that matters.

That is how I see it anyway.
I... Kinda wanted the earliest human states to be not medieval from the start, but Roman-like instead, with the trolls and other races captured in wars used as slaves, until the Strom-centered empire intermingeld with the no-slavery tribes and polities of the north and south-west.
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Old 07-02-2013, 06:32 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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This stuff's over my head. (Not hard to do!)
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:48 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Quote:
Also since humanity couldn't expand from Strom, to create Lordaeron, before they defeated the trolls one would think that just about the entire Lordaeron subcontinent was held by the Amani, so I don't think there would be any space between Quel'dor and the Amani empire.
Remember, the sub-continent of Lordaeron didn't actually exist at the time (the first humans were born fifteen thousand years ago). There was a lot more land for humanity to occupy back in the day. They could just have moved around the amani.

And considering that humanity underwent the sundering, it's pretty easy to integrate a roman-like empire. Early humans would have lived much more like vrykul. However, when the sundering scattered the early human clans it forced them to adapt, and they developed a wide variety of cultures (including possibly a roman), which would finally be united by the league of arathor.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:07 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Remember, the sub-continent of Lordaeron didn't actually exist at the time (the first humans were born fifteen thousand years ago). There was a lot more land for humanity to occupy back in the day. They could just have moved around the amani.
I don't see how it would be possible for the humans to sail from the inward vrykul fjords and arrive to modern northern Lordaeron pre-Sundering.
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Old 07-02-2013, 06:20 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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I don't see how it would be possible for the humans to sail from the inward vrykul fjords and arrive to modern northern Lordaeron pre-Sundering.
I may be missing some lore here, but why assume they sailed?
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Old 07-14-2013, 05:34 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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The Founding of Quel'Thalas

"The Amani empire stretched across most of northern Lordaeron, and the trolls fought hard to keep unwanted strangers from their borders. The elves developed a deep loathing for the vicious trolls and killed them on sight whenever they were encountered.

After many long years, the high elves finally found a land which was reminiscent of Kalimdor. Deep within the northern forests of the continent, they founded the kingdom of Quel'Thalas and vowed to create a mighty empire which would dwarf that of their Kaldorei cousins. Unfortunately they soon learned that Quel'Thalas was founded upon an ancient troll city that the trolls still held to be sacred. Almost immediately, the trolls began to attack the elven settlements en masse.

The stubborn elves, unwilling to give up their new land, utilized the magics which they had gleaned from the Well of Eternity and kept the savage trolls at bay. Under Dath'Remar's leadership, they were able to defeat the Amani warbands that outnumbered them ten to one.
"

Said ancient troll city, Zul'Eh-Lune, was a shrine to what trolls perceived as the Loa of the Moon, the cult of which was later superseded by Ulatek, the Underlord Serpent. Ulatek gifted the forest trolls with many beasts to hunt and many crops to grow, and thus her city of Zul'Ulatek, built around the ancient Shrine of Ulatek, became the capital of the Amani. Nevertheless, Zul'Eh-Lune, while abandoned and "given to the wilds", was still considered sacred, even if the Loa of the Moon was not as widely worshiped as before - annual yearly "moon festivals" still commemorated the Loa Goddess for her mercy, with expressed prays for her to not drown the land with her "moon-sent" waves of the ocean.

On their way to the north through the mountains of Lordaeron the elves destroyed western watchposts of the Amani Empire and felt confident in their victory. To commemorate the first great victory over the forest trolls, elven commander Mirdoran Shalandar ordered to build the fortress that would strike fear into the hearts of all trolls - Talah'Aran, "the City of Death". Many battles would that city see, and many times would it be repurposed. At first the ground under the keep was filled with the troll corpses; during the Troll Wars it was completely ruined by the vengeful Amani; later it became a grand mausoleum for the fallen elven heroes; an after a yet another war that dawned upon the Golden Age of Quel'Thalas it was completely forgotten, a small ranger village of the Windrunner domain was constructed there instead. The original intention for the settlement, a dark fortress of terror, returned only after the Scourge Invasion, when Arthas teared down the village and built the dark castle of Deathholme atop of it, making good use of the bodies buried underground.

The northern suburb of Argelune (known in common as Silvermoon) was not always called Quel'Danas. When the elves decided to build a sacred grove there, they once again used the old Kaldorei name "Quel'Dor" - "the High Home/Isle", for its useful double meaning. As the centuries passed and the language of the Thalassians developed further, it resembled the elitist dialect of the ancient Highborne less and less. For example, the old "Aran", traditionally describing the grand cities of Highborne, became used so often that it was integrated with other word roots, with no need for apostrophe, and even with the ability to cut the word down to get a different meaning ("City of Stars" - Dalaran --- Dalar - "Star-touched"). Similarly, "dor" remained in use only for the ancient relics of old (like the runestone Shan'dor - "Home of the Teacher"), or for the hearth-related word roots (-dorei - "those who leave in homes; children", dorini - "compatriots; homies", doral - "to fare"). Meanwhile, "danei" and its variants became the main word to describe different geographic occurences, with "danil" being a peak and "danas" - a grove.

Surprised by the sudden invasion of the elves and the loss of their ancestral territories, the Amani warbands plotted in the forests of Quel'Thalas to strike the elves ever since, while their leaders in the great stone cities of Zul'Aman contemplated from where such invaders could come. Alarmed by the attack, the Amani sent great war parties to the west to scout and find from where did the elves come. In the west, they only found ruins of old cities and remains of seafaring vessels. Remembering the old tales about devious attackers from the Peaks of Vashjir, the Amani understood, that unless they take the problem with the "guests" seriously, they will lose much more.

The disappearance of Quel'dor, with the relative lack of struggle from any other natives, has prompted the forest trolls to expand their empire further to the west and south. While they didn't construct any new cities, the Amani established many small communities all across the forests of Lordaeron, becoming a constant threat for elves and humans alike for thousands of year, always hidden when needed, always striking unexpectedly.

A separate forest troll country of Zul'Dare has meanwhile expanded to the coasts of modern Gilneas and Tol Barad, halted only by the sudden decisive battle with the humans in the central Gilneas. No troll has ever managed to enter the southern Lowlands of the peninsula.

With the disappearance of the elves and the sudden moves by the trolls, the human tribes further migrate. The people of Southern Lordaeron migrate to the north of Lordamere and to Gilneas in fear of troll attacks, founding new battles there either way. One group makes a desperate exodus to the highlands of today's Stromgarde and joins the local evergrowing human community that already starts to craft simple stone walls and better weapons to protect themselves against the trolls.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:44 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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I feel you are being overly detailed here Kir. 'Course while I might like more action I understand if this subtle and detailed worldbuilding appeals to you. It appeals to me too, though I feel it is wasted on fanfiction.

Also I can't help but recall this when I read elven fanfiction:




I mean it is kind of funny since I enjoy (blood) elves quite a bit but in fanfiction? I just find them terribly low on potential. I suppose since Blizzard has given them quite a bit of attention and history there is very little room for improvement in my mind.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:49 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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My only intention was to think of and fill in some maps in the early history of the Eastern Kingdoms. That's some thousands of years missing from the lore.

For me, it's more of an exercise in historical modeling and less of a definitive "story".
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:33 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Orb of Fire

The Amani Golden Age

Early elven victories against the trolls proved short-termed. What the children of the noble blood considered a minor struggle against a few primitives turned out to be the start of a new, bloody war. While their mages were greater than anything the Amani spellcasters had, elves found themselves ill-used to the forest warfare and the hit-and-run tactics of the troll warbands. Supported by the healing magics of their witch-doctors, the Amani always stayed vigilant in their battles with elves, slowly but intently slaying elven sorcerers who came to hunt them, opening the way for the mighty dire trolls and berserkers to slay the rest.

The heavily forested nature of the area also made it difficult for the elves to simply burn down the woods and leave the warbands without cover - the fire would catch on their own parts of the forest that way.

After a horde of berserkers took down Talah'Aran, banally climbing the dreaded fortress's walls, the western lordship was as good as lost. Its denizens escaped to the north as fast as they could. Lord Masophet Talahnar gathered his last household phalanx and magicians to stand and fight off the trolls, giving his people a chance to escape beyond the glades and rivers, into the Eversong Woods. He succeeded at that task, but fell in the ensuing Battle of Elrendar together with his forces.

Masophet's sacrifice, however, has given the elves the chance to prepare for the future great war against the trolls. Forest troll warbands were eager to continue fighting, but their chieftains judged it reckless to risk all of their fighting force on the takeover of Zul'Eh-Lune, considering just how numerous the elven mages were. Having reconquered most of there woods (and guarding the northern reaches of Zul'Aman with their small mountain keeps), the Amani started to repopulate the region, similarly preparing for the next battle to come, never stopping their raids to the north.

The chance that the Quel'dorei got resulted in two new developments. The first one happened when the elven king ordered to build massive, long walls all over their territory, with watchers standing guard there at all times and an enchanted gate that could be opened only with Moonstone Key artifacts - thus creating the Inner Gates of Quel'Thalas. The second one was the development of new forms of warfare - the Highborne that came to Lordaeron were able to wield few weapons: ceremonial tridents and massive swords of the remaining Eternal Champions of Azshara. The rest depended on the art of magic, which often proved clumsy and uncontrollable and required years of research to master it to the potential elven sorcerers have now. Thus, the new royal military policies required all able-bodied townsfolk from the settlements around Argelune'Aran to train themselves in the art of war. As the battle mage training and traditional academies were closed for everyone not from the capital, the descendants of great houses and long lineages had to pick up the basic bow warfare as their specialty. Gritting their teeth the whole time - archery was always disregarded as something exclusive to the smallfolk, absolutely not befitting the high caste. But, of course, a civilization in which everybody is of noble caste couldn't survive forever. Thus started the great differentiation in the Thalassian people which survived to this day: between the magic-attuned snobs of Silvermoon and Sunstrider Isle, and the "bowfolk" of Eversong Woods. The first further researched the arcane, while the latter were forced to develop their own art of war against the encroaching forest trolls, separately from their night elven cousins developing the mastery of ranger warfare and slowly turning back to the nature-attuned life of Kaldorei before the Sundering.

This era heralded the change of several elven kings. The mighty Dath'Remar Sunstrider, thought to be their eternal leader, died from no sword and no spell - his great "last sacrifice" was a silent death in his bed, a frail and ill old person. Suddenly the aging and death of their masters horrified the Highborne and led to multiple cultural developments. The Quel'dorei en masse thought themselves cursed by their Kalimdor brethren and abandoned by all and any Ancients. This made the ground base for the elves' later joining of the Church of Holy Light, much further into the future. Some turned to utmost hedonism, fearing to lose their lives and wanting to live out the most of it. But the most of Silvermoon elves were now frantically searching for ways to stop aging and death, which led to new arcane developments, even if the search itself wasn't successful. At best, the elves managed to craft spells and alchemic ingridients that allowed to remove signs of old age from their skin and hair, but only a few achieved the secrets of longevity on the level of Braelyn Firehand or the late King Anasterian Sunstrider.

For the time being, the elves closed themselves from the outside world and kept to their relatively small enclave, bordering only the hostile trolls, the fights with whom never stopped. Silvermoon succumbed to glamour, hedonism and unstoppable use of magic, while the surrounding communities had to learn how to hunt, farm and fight without the aid of arcane. The image of a Highborne-led society from the times of Azshara started to resurface among the many, and little love did the bowfolk have for the "Kings of Hermitage" in their high halls under the silver moon and the blue sky.

If for the elves these times were the age of decadence, the Amani, on the other hand, started their golden age. Their ziggurates have covered the glades of today's Eastern Lordaeron and the abandoned ruins of Quel'dor also found their use in troll hands. The Amani Empire, ruled by its high priest, spreads metalworks and masonry all around the continent, trading metals for wool and cloth produced by vassalized human tribes. It is an age of relative peace: after their victory against the elves, the trolls had little to no threats to their rule, and preferred to subjugate other races rather than slaughter them. As such, the gnolls of Silverpine and Lordamere too became servants of the troll empire.

However, the Amani were cruel masters. While they let their servants to continue with their traditional way of life and economy, the trolls established their own superiority in a twisted way: all subjugated tribes were to send "the blood tax" to Jintha'Alor each season, consisting of one male and one female. These unfortunate souls were to be sacrificed on the altars of troll Loa, fueling the magic of their priests. Such a sacrifice was doable, but undoubtedly disgracing, worthy of slaves, not allies.

Not all tribes of the northern continent were content with such a fate. The humans of today's Southern Lordaeron organized together into a community called Bradhold, a host of archers and spearmen united around a wooden citadel near the Braddish mountain range. These humans refused to pay the blood tax and kept control over the southern shores, refusing entry to troll boats. The tribe of Arathi was also forced into building fortifications to protect themselves from trolls' wrath, but the Amani were content with their inaction, as the Arathi had a number of important goods for trade. The legendary chief Grey Mane established himself as a warchief of all human communities in the south and center of Gilnean peninsula and reconquered part of the eastern shore from Zul'Dare trolls. However, the trolls moved into the northern woods and established a foothold there. Zul'Dare tribal union also colonized the western islands of Barad, with its conquering chieftain naming himself the lord of all Zul-Baradarr and entering a conflict with Zul'Dare's priesthood, who felt that the chief was trying to usurp their authority over the Daradin society.

Perhaps the way the Amani Empire dealt with its tributaries - letting them live, giving them metals and technology, yet antagonizing their pride and sense of unity became its undoing many decades later, when the Troll Wars put an end to it.
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Last edited by Kir the Wizard; 02-20-2014 at 02:00 PM..
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:17 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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I greatly approve of this thread. It shall receive the Exalted Seal of Approval.
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:52 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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High elves not being used to forest warfare and hit-and-run tactics and needing to develop it again rather than rely solely on arcane magic sounds a bit out of place to me. Their ancestors would have lived among the post-sundering night elves for quite a while, didn't they?

Otherwise, very lovely. Your handling of the amani empire is quite an unusual one, but could definitely work in-universe and leads to an interesting setting.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:05 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
High elves not being used to forest warfare and hit-and-run tactics and needing to develop it again rather than rely solely on arcane magic sounds a bit out of place to me. Their ancestors would have lived among the post-sundering night elves for quite a while, didn't they?
Well, I'd think that Dath'Remar's toadies would never really get used to no-magic lifestyle and try to evade it and cling to stay in the upper-class as soon as possible. And the whole "accidentally caused moonsoon by their magic" seems to suggest exactly that.

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Otherwise, very lovely. Your handling of the amani empire is quite an unusual one, but could definitely work in-universe and leads to an interesting setting.
What do you consider unusual?
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:14 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Well, I'd think that Dath'Remar's toadies would never really get used to no-magic lifestyle and try to evade it and cling to stay in the upper-class as soon as possible. And the whole "accidentally caused moonsoon by their magic" seems to suggest exactly that.
Wasn't it also canon that usage of arcane magic was punishable by death? There's nothing to suggest there was any exception to this rule before the mass banishment (in fact, the exception was only made because it was so many people at once), so I don't quite see how it was even possible to live in a non no-magic lifestyle.

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What do you consider unusual?
In this case, that you handled the amani as a fairly realistic empire, with them not being troll-exclusive, and having several member states that keep a bit of their old culture. Sometimes, realism is unusual

On that topic, you mention humans and gnolls, were any other species (like, say, wildkin, murloc, kobolds or yeti) members as well?
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:24 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Wasn't it also canon that usage of arcane magic was punishable by death? There's nothing to suggest there was any exception to this rule before the mass banishment (in fact, the exception was only made because it was so many people at once), so I don't quite see how it was even possible to live in a non no-magic lifestyle.
*shrugs* Maybe I'm wrong. I always guessed that they continued to try living like nobles and practiced arcane in secret. Imagine trying to put off the arcane weed for some thousands years and then SNAPPING COLLECTIVELY ALL AT ONCE! Unrealistic, methinks!


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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
In this case, that you handled the amani as a fairly realistic empire, with them not being troll-exclusive, and having several member states that keep a bit of their old culture. Sometimes, realism is unusual
Ah, thanks. And here I feared that the whole bloody sacrifices thing would be too unrealistic.

To be honest, I was trying to think of a way for the Amani to simultaneously dominate the continent AND not wipe out any other race, and decided to make other races into their servants.

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
On that topic, you mention humans and gnolls, were any other species (like, say, wildkin, murloc, kobolds or yeti) members as well?
Oh, I thought to include more, but lore-checking made me worry.

Murlocs are described in WC3 manual as "being new to Lordaeron", so I guessed that they stayed hidden underwater along with the Naga for the most part.

Kobolds I wanted to include at first, but then I remembered about "degraded from troggs" backstory. I REALLY hate that backstory (and would instead make them come from the Rat ancient), but unfortunately it's the most canon we have right now, so I guess they wouldn't come around just yet.

Yeti Secret Society must have stayed independent of anyone.

And the owlbears... I kind of forgotten about them, but weren't the Lordaeronian ones wild and aggressive at first place? I'd think they would be on "huntable animal" status.
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