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Old 07-25-2015, 08:59 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Orb of Lightning Your opinion on the Draenei as of WoD

So during my daily ranting about the ending of HFC, I've realized something. We complain that forgiving the orcs is dumb, that forgiving your enemy is dumb because it's inconsistent with the Draenei of BC and WoW. But when you think about it, BC never made sense for them either.

We're told in books that the Draenei are a people who endured a brutal war with the Orcs, yet years later, only the Broken are the ones who seem to hold a grudge. That one quest in HFP where you're sent to avenge a dead Draenei by killing orcs, that was the Broken. The Draenei who lost his brother didn't want to jump to conclusions. But when it came to the Blood Elves, they weren't above holding grudges. It took a while to mend their differences and fight together. In WoD, despite never seeing them, the AU Draenei didn't trust the elves because of what the alliance said. Despite that, there's virtually no hostility amongst the Draenei regarding the Horde, or even the Iron Horde.

Yrel was toted around as this next big Alliance hero, but you only see her interact with the player, Maraad, and Hansel. I don't think she needs to be anti-Horde, even though that's what Blizzard beats into everyone's head, but we don't see any other AU Draenei interact with anyone else.
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2015, 09:02 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Default Orcs are a friend gone evil. Belves are evil strangers.

And that's why the Draenei forgiving Grom makes sense, but of course, I'm just crazy Nazja.
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  #3  
Old 07-25-2015, 09:13 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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draenei, but us? draenei and blood elves alliance is logical
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:32 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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You really can't have a race that holds grudges and is about vengeance in the Alliance. That's just a fact. That being said, I enjoyed the draenei of WoD mainly to see what they looked like before the orcs massarce them into road material.
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:07 AM
Korath Korath is offline

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I said it a long time ago, but it remains true, and consistent with the way the Draeneļ are depicted :

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On the subject of the Draeneļ. I think that their very first problem is how their basic lore (post-retcon) does not compute with itself, like, at all.

I mean, we know that their goal is to create the Army of Light and to spearhead it in its war against the Burning Legion, the mightiest army in the Creation, so they have to be a crusading-type of culture, where emphasis is put to the more martial traditions, they have to compensate their small numbers with an incredibly well trained army, where almost all of them are expected to be. They are excepted to even wage a guerilla war with the Legion in the Cosmos to have even a modicum of credibility.

But in the same time... in the same time, the Draeneļ were those creatures butchered by the orcs when they created the Horde, and were thus less used to work together. So, the draeneļ had to be a weak species, maybe even a peaceful on, kind of primitive creatures dwelling on Draenor while remaining distant with the orcish clans. They had to be weak to be slaughtered that easily by the Horde, because their Genocide was never stated as arduous for the orcs.

And we now saw all the problems coming with such an imperfect lore : the retcon was not only problematic for Sargeras and the creation of the Legion; retrospectively, we can say that it was far worse for the Draeneļ themselves. Before TBC, I hadn't played to TFT, so I never had saw them, but I talked with a friend who had played it, and while the Draeneļ seemed monstrous, I loved what he told to me, about their grip with the orcs, their warrior-assassin culture and all. Then, I read a magazine where it was said that the Draeneļ were from the same species than Archimonde, stating that the Alliance get "a race with a shady background".

The draeneļ felt so awesome, and I loved (and still do) the first two zones so much that I was blind and never truly was what they were before it was too late.
Remember that in the TBC manual, they were said to be joining the Alliance both to fight the Legion and avenge the crimes committed by the orcs. But Blizzard never delivered and, stuck in their absence of vision for the Alliance, dumped a whole lot of terrible lore for the Draeneļ as well. It is telling than it was when they were basically neutral that Blizzard bothered to work on the Draeneļ.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:38 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Back in my Warcraft 2 days I used to imagine some remnant of the Draenei joining the Alliance. The Draenei as presented in TFT were exactly what I had envisioned. They could and should have stuck with it. You'd still get alliance shamans, plus some natural guerrilla fighters as rogues. They'd also have great hunters, warriors and priests. Then they made them Eredar. Then they brought in the Naaru. I ate it up at the time. Looking back, I somewhat wish they hadn't done those things.

You know, the Eredar isn't even the worst part. I'd play the hell out of them if they had warlocks. As it is, it's a double bait and switch.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:42 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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The Naaru is my main problem with the Draenei.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:57 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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The naaru also ruin the nelves far more than anything else.
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  #9  
Old 07-25-2015, 01:58 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
The naaru also ruin the nelves far more than anything else.
Still a tiny bit of hope on that point.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:59 PM
Kynrind Kynrind is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korath View Post
Remember that in the TBC manual, they were said to be joining the Alliance both to fight the Legion and avenge the crimes committed by the orcs. But Blizzard never delivered and, stuck in their absence of vision for the Alliance, dumped a whole lot of terrible lore for the Draeneļ as well. It is telling than it was when they were basically neutral that Blizzard bothered to work on the Draeneļ.
Blizzard does it with every race in the Alliance. It makes promises about the race, then proceeds to drop and ignore said promises once the race is a part of the Alliance. The worgen are the last occurrence. We were promised a savage and fierce race with the worgen. A race that could/WOULD take the fight to the Horde and be as savage as they are. Instead we got neutered Chihuahuas. The Horde on the other hand, got its promise with the goblins.

Damn you, Blizzard.
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  #11  
Old 07-25-2015, 02:07 PM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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The naaru also ruin the nelves far more than anything else.
I think loa
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  #12  
Old 07-25-2015, 02:23 PM
Arashi Arashi is offline

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Everything ruins night elves.
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  #13  
Old 07-25-2015, 02:32 PM
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I think loa
I hope loa.
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Old 07-25-2015, 02:33 PM
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Everything ruins night elves.
HotS is good to them.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

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  #15  
Old 07-25-2015, 02:40 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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The thing with loa is, just about anything could rightly be one while also still being what they've always been. The naaaru could themselves be loas, because when it comes down to it, "loa" seems to just be an extremely broad and generalized term that trolls use for spiritually attuned entities of varying levels of power.

After all, a blood god like Hakkar is a loa, primal animal gods like the pantheons of Zul'drak, Zul'Aman and Zul'gurub are loas, revered animal spirits like the rare spawns in Stranglethorn are loas, abstract spiritual beings like the god-statues in Zul'drak are loas, the ghosts of dead trolls are loas...really there seems very little restriction on what the trolls call a loa, and since the term is "theirs," that basically means any number of things could possibly be considered a loas despite the other races and "rules" of the canon having more specificlly attributed names and classifications for them.

Trolls might consider anything from Ancients, to demigods, to elementals, to even demons and void beings types of loas, and since the meaning of "loa" is itself a troll concept in WarCraft, there's really nobody else to accurately say they're wrong in thinking so.
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Old 07-25-2015, 02:43 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
The Naaru is my main problem with the Draenei.
I know, and I think I get it.

Draenei minus Naaru. We can still have them be Eredar, or even be related to the Eredar. We stick with Warcraft III origins for Eredar, with the Draenei either being defectors or Eredar experiments. Either way they would have played a role in Sargeras defeating the Eredar, and he would have put them there for their protection. That or perhaps Draenor was their "hidden rebel base." Either way, after Sargeras released the Eredar, the Draenei no longer had his protection, but since demons can't come to worlds unless summoned they were still safe until some dumb Orc fell for their tricks.
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Old 07-25-2015, 03:11 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
The thing with loa is, just about anything could rightly be one while also still being what they've always been. The naaaru could themselves be loas, because when it comes down to it, "loa" seems to just be an extremely broad and generalized term that trolls use for spiritually attuned entities of varying levels of power.

After all, a blood god like Hakkar is a loa, primal animal gods like the pantheons of Zul'drak, Zul'Aman and Zul'gurub are loas, revered animal spirits like the rare spawns in Stranglethorn are loas, abstract spiritual beings like the god-statues in Zul'drak are loas, the ghosts of dead trolls are loas...really there seems very little restriction on what the trolls call a loa, and since the term is "theirs," that basically means any number of things could possibly be considered a loas despite the other races and "rules" of the canon having more specificlly attributed names and classifications for them.

Trolls might consider anything from Ancients, to demigods, to elementals, to even demons and void beings types of loas, and since the meaning of "loa" is itself a troll concept in WarCraft, there's really nobody else to accurately say they're wrong in thinking so.
You are right, but I meant the original loa. The ones that apparently coined the term.
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Old 07-25-2015, 03:11 PM
Galdus Galdus is offline

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1. The Naruu.

2. Having Paladins.

3. Their characterizations.

4. Their backstory.

5. How they've been used.

I would suggest making the Eredar from a world with Titan worship. The Eredar were already expansionist and/or genocidal before Sargeras came to them. The "bad Eredar" Eredar are those who follow Sargeras' path, while the "good Eredar" were led away by non-Fallen Titans or their agents. I'm thinking of removing the Good Eredar's long lifespan unless the Titans or their agents get them that.
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  #19  
Old 07-25-2015, 03:17 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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As bland as ever. Paladins with goat legs aren't my thing. Also being part of an alternate universe makes their story completely pointless.

Last edited by SmokeBlader; 07-25-2015 at 03:41 PM..
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  #20  
Old 07-25-2015, 03:31 PM
Galdus Galdus is offline

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Frankly, I say that the Draenei being the ultimate Light worshipers is one of the biggest issues (if not the biggest issue) with them. It's more homogenization that also undermines the Humans.
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Old 07-25-2015, 03:34 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galdus View Post
Frankly, I say that the Draenei being the ultimate Light worshipers is one of the biggest issues (if not the biggest issue) with them. It's more homogenization that also undermines the Humans.
I like this guy.

Draenei were introduced because the players wanted demons iirc, so why did they give us the angels instead of the fallen angels?
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Old 07-25-2015, 03:34 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
I like this guy.

Draenei were introduced because the players wanted demons iirc, so why did they give us the angels instead of the fallen angels?
Because they wanted demons that fit with being Alliance.
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  #23  
Old 07-25-2015, 03:42 PM
Galdus Galdus is offline

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That doesn't mean they have to be Light worshipers.
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Old 07-25-2015, 03:44 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
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That doesn't mean they have to be Light worshipers.
Of course, but me and you are not Blizzard.

Were it up to me I would have preferred them as master arcanists and magic enthusiasts because the Alliance lost High Elves.
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  #25  
Old 07-25-2015, 03:57 PM
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Lightbulb

They are still blue.
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