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  #151  
Old 12-19-2013, 01:49 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
That's just wrong....

Liking someone only because they died?

The Najza has made me a sad panda.
Nazja is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
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  #152  
Old 12-19-2013, 01:49 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
That's just wrong....

Liking someone only because they died?

The Najza has made me a sad panda.
Dying honourably is something I appreciate.
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  #153  
Old 12-19-2013, 01:50 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
Nazja is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Nazja likes demons and the undead...
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  #154  
Old 12-19-2013, 01:54 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
Nazja likes demons and the undead...
That means..... OMFG Nazja is Xil!!!!! It's so clear now!

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
I like Taylor, except when he's all peace loving.
He fits right in with the Alliance. They all love peace.

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Dying honourably is something I appreciate.
I bet your only happy when it rains...
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  #155  
Old 12-19-2013, 02:03 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
Why is Nazgrim well liked and Taylor not?
Well, Nazgrim was around before Taylor, right?

That and Alliance players never had to kill him. Guarantee you his popularity would shoot up if they were ever forced to kill him.
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  #156  
Old 12-19-2013, 02:13 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
I bet your only happy when it rains...
I'm almost always happy. I go out and can't help but smile because I'm alive and get to see the beauty of the world.
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  #157  
Old 12-19-2013, 02:14 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I'm almost always happy. I go out and can't help but smile because I'm alive and get to see the beauty of the world.
Nah.
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #158  
Old 12-19-2013, 02:32 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
That means..... OMFG Nazja is Xil!!!!! It's so clear now!
I can't stand playing foreskins, though.
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  #159  
Old 12-19-2013, 02:36 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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I can't stand playing foreskins, though.
Isawwhatyoudidthere........
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  #160  
Old 12-19-2013, 02:37 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
Isawwhatyoudidthere........
Actually, that was just my stupid iPad. I don't know why it's so fixated to change forsaken into foreskins, when that's a word that I've never used on the iPad on my own...
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  #161  
Old 12-19-2013, 02:45 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Actually, that was just my stupid iPad. I don't know why it's so fixated to change forsaken into foreskins, when that's a word that I've never used on the iPad on my own...
SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

The ipad, I got ya, hint hint wink wink nudge nudge whosyourfather.....
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  #162  
Old 12-19-2013, 02:54 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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It's going to kind of suck that the Horde may or may not be going through some kind of cultural revolution with the downfall of Garrosh, and we will never actually see it. It'll still be all "Death to the non-Orcs" and "Lok'tar Ogar!"
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So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #163  
Old 12-19-2013, 05:24 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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One of the things that kind of rustles me is that there are only two kinds of orcs

Bloodlusted warrior savage that is hellbent on destruction

or

Noble, yet misuderstood savage.

One would hope that Orc Mages would have shaken things up, maybe have them be at Dalaran of all places shaking things up and being tutelaged by the Blood Elves.

Perhaps an orc tinker that is dabbling with the Goblins now that they are official part of the horde, putting us one step closer to a power armor (like blackhand)

Maybe an orc monk who likes combat, yet hates war... something akin to a batman or a luchador, a growing culture that likes to beat people up but isnt so hot on killing.

I dont know the warcraft orcs have so much to give... but they seem like lotr orcs in these days
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Last edited by Mark_Romaneck; 12-19-2013 at 05:27 PM..
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  #164  
Old 12-19-2013, 05:36 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Let me summarize,

Orcs: Getting turned into LOTR or a poor man's imitation of WC2 Orcs by people who never played WC2. Massive identity crisis, downplaying of clans, MOP in general, and constant character derailment.

Troll: Just the Darkspear tribe alone while everyone has factions, scale problems, lack of a culture compared to the other Trolls, basically Diet Trolls, and Vol'jin taking over Orgrimmar not really helping their lack of identity.

Blood Elves: Not really growing more secured in the Horde, though mostly better off as races go right now.

Tauren: Castrated thanks to Baine's new portrayal as a spineless wimp only interested in appeasing his enemies. Downplaying of Tribe identity somewhat similar to Orcs.

Forsaken: Lost much of their sympathetic qualities, utterly reliant on
Sylvanas.

Goblin: Fine except for Gallywix, get rid of the bastard ASAP.

Last edited by JorgeAxe; 12-19-2013 at 05:38 PM..
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  #165  
Old 12-19-2013, 09:09 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by JorgeAxe View Post
Seriously why not have another prominent orc character such as Gorgonna, Jorin, or Nazgrel defeat Nazgrim, would address alot of the complaints about they're being no orc heroes in the Siege.
I doubt anyone can disagree here. Young or new orcs who opposed Garrosh's idiocy were sorely lacked in the events leading up to and including SoO, in fact orcish opposition to Garrosh has been sorely lacking period and was not built up well at all. This leads to orcs looking very complicit in his wrongdoings and you'd expect both hate for orcs from other races for it and pushback from those orcs against the other races for "dishonoring" them... of course none of that will be touched on and everyone will pretend things are honky dory in the Horde.

Also agreed that Darkspear are trolls lite, I wanted to mention that in my first post but I didn't want to clutter it (it was big as is, I don't think anyone read it). They lack the epic architecture, they lack the culture, they just lack that "ancient culture" majesty other trolls have, even those who are half savage now. They are not expanding, not getting in other jungle tribes or any other tribes, they are small, dull and pathetic.

Now I might be wrong on both those accounts, maybe Blizzard will both show the orcs in the doghouse for their Garrosh escapades AND give us a new age of trolldom under Warchief Vol'jin... but I am sure you can all understand why I'm skeptical.
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  #166  
Old 12-19-2013, 10:32 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Also agreed that Darkspear are trolls lite, I wanted to mention that in my first post but I didn't want to clutter it (it was big as is, I don't think anyone read it). They lack the epic architecture, they lack the culture, they just lack that "ancient culture" majesty other trolls have, even those who are half savage now. They are not expanding, not getting in other jungle tribes or any other tribes, they are small, dull and pathetic.
It's funny you should say this, as part of the visions granted to Vol'jin by Bwonsamdi during SotH carried the implication that the cultural advancement and accompanying extravagance that came to define the Zandalari empire were responsible for making them less "trollish" than they used to be. Their dreams of empire and increasingly entitled superiority had them thinking they were owed greatness, and the loas' favor was theirs by right rather than something they still had to earn. They saw their success as reason for reward, rather than being the reward in itself.

In a way, by "regressing" as the Zandalari saw it, the Gurubashi and Amani (and perhaps even Drakkari; hard to say where their exodus fits into the chronology of the original Zandalari Empire )were really being more true to the loas and their own troll heritage than the more "advanced" trolls they left back in Zandalar, and Bwonsamdi even cited the Zandalari acceptance of the fracturing of their people - writing it off as the other tribes descending to barbarism instead of striving to keep all the trolls unified - as a sign that they had lost touch with what it truly meant to be a troll.

In the modern age the Darkspear are arguably being truer to their trollish roots than the other tribes, because in the ages since their past ascendancy, for one reason or another the Gurubashi, Amani, Drakkari and now Zandalari have all sunk to pillaging their own ancient cultures instead of actually living in and respecting them. While Vol'jin finds himself looking to Bwonsamdi for knowledge and advice, the other trolls have resorted to wresting their gods' power and trying to use it themselves, in effect pilfering and despoiling their own heritage in order to weaponize it.

Last edited by ARM3481; 12-19-2013 at 10:38 PM..
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  #167  
Old 12-19-2013, 10:36 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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So how did Bwonsamdi react when Vol'jin told him that he had allied with a group of people who represented the worst perversion of the cycle of life and death possible?

Or does Bwonsamdi like undeath and the Farakki were right?
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #168  
Old 12-19-2013, 10:37 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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It's funny you should say this, as part of the visions granted to Vol'jin by Bwonsamdi during SotH carried the implication that the cultural advancement and accompanying extravagance that came to define the Zandalari empire were responsible for making them less "trollish" than they used to be. Their dreams of empire and increasingly entitled superiority had them thinking they were owed greatness, and the loas' favor was theirs by right rather than something they still had to earn. They saw their success as reason for further reward, rather than being a reward in itself.

In a way, by "regressing" as the Zandalari saw it, the Gurubashi and Amani (and perhaps even Drakkari; hard to say where their exodus fits into the chronology of the original Zandalari Empire )were really being more true to the loas and their own troll heritage than the more "advanced" trolls they left back in Zandalar, and Bwonsamdi even cited the Zandalari acceptance of the fracturing of their people - writing it off as the other tribes descending to barbarism instead of striving to keep all the trolls unified - as a sign that they had lost touch with what it truly meant to be a troll.

In the modern age the Darkspear are arguably being truer to their trollish roots than the other tribes, because in the ages since their past ascendancy, for one reason or another the Gurubashi, Amani, Drakkari and now Zandalari have all sunk to pillaging their own ancient cultures instead of actually living in and respecting them. While Vol'jin finds himself looking to Bwonsamdi for knowledge and advice, the other trolls have resorted to wresting their gods' power and trying to use it themselves, in effect pilfering and despoiling their own heritage in order to weaponize it.

So basically "Cool is Evil"

The Horde will never have cool other troll tribe stuff, or cool Iron Horde / Garrosh Horde magic and tech because it's evil
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  #169  
Old 12-19-2013, 10:42 PM
Shroombie Shroombie is offline

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So how did Bwonsamdi react when Vol'jin told him that he had allied with a group of people who represented the worst perversion of the cycle of life and death possible?

Or does Bwonsamdi like undeath and the Farakki were right?
The Trolls have been raising the undead for ages, I think they'd have a bit of a different perspective on it.
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  #170  
Old 12-19-2013, 10:46 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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The Trolls have been raising the undead for ages, I think they'd have a bit of a different perspective on it.
I thought that was a Farakki thing. It doesn't help that we've only seen "bad trolls" do it, along with cannibalism.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #171  
Old 12-19-2013, 10:47 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I thought that was a Farakki thing. It doesn't help that we've only seen "bad trolls" do it, along with cannibalism.
Revantusk seem fine with the Forsaken.
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  #172  
Old 12-19-2013, 10:52 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Bwonsamdi's a pretty huge asshole then.

Like all trolls.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #173  
Old 12-19-2013, 10:53 PM
Shroombie Shroombie is offline

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I thought that was a Farakki thing. It doesn't help that we've only seen "bad trolls" do it, along with cannibalism.
IIRC, Bonswamdi actually raised the dead during the retaking of the Echo Isles. Also, there's a quest in 1k Needles where you help a Darkspear wife resurrect her deadbeat husband.
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  #174  
Old 12-19-2013, 10:56 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Bwonsamdi's a pretty huge asshole then.

Like all trolls.
And like you.
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  #175  
Old 12-19-2013, 10:59 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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So how did Bwonsamdi react when Vol'jin told him that he had allied with a group of people who represented the worst perversion of the cycle of life and death possible?

Or does Bwonsamdi like undeath and the Farakki were right?
Frankly, Bwonsamdi strikes me as the sort to have a practical "even they'll die eventually" mindset about something like undeath. After all, "no king rules for ever" and all that, and in all likelihood even the Farraki probably entreat various loas to empower their necromancy. Even with Zalazane Bwonsamdi never really seemed offended by the traitorous witchdoctor's reanimation of dead and brainwashing of living Darkspears; rather, he seemed more amused by the idea that Zalazane thought he'd keep getting away with it, and figured with Vol'jin looking to reclaim the Echo Isles, it was as good a time as any to teach the twerp a lesson about arrogant presumption.

After all, what are any claims of eternity made by the likes of the Lich King or Sylvanas Windrunner to an ageless loa who existed in the age of the Zandalari Empire, if not even earlier still? How disruptive to the cycle are they really to someone who's likely informed, experienced and reveled in the birth, growth, and eventual end of entire dynasties over countless generations spanning centuries if not tens of millennia? To something as ancient as many of the loas likely are, the devastation caused by even the undead to Azeroth may well seem little more than a transitory calamity that can't really last in the grand scheme of things.

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So basically "Cool is Evil"

The Horde will never have cool other troll tribe stuff, or cool Iron Horde / Garrosh Horde magic and tech because it's evil
Not necessarily. It's just the mindset that not having those things (yet) makes the Darkspears less like proper trolls than the other tribes is the very sort of thinking that had the other tribes disrespecting and abusing the loas, stealing power that had been freely given because they felt they were owed it. That they had the massive temple ziggurats, they had the monolithic cities, so they deserved even more because of what they already had.
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