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Old 01-28-2014, 08:53 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Default The Transition

You know, we don't exactly have a handle on how this expansion will end. Maybe it's because of how knowing that affected things with MoP. That said, we knew that Arthas would be killed in WotLK and this wasn't a problem. We knew that Deathwing would be killed in Cata, and it wasn't a problem. As such, there may be an ulterior motive and it's really quite obvious. Blizz has said that the end of this expansion will dovetail directly into the next one, so it makes sense not to reveal how it all will end and spoil the next expansion.

So I ask, how do you see this expansion ending and then leading into the next?

I see a couple possibilities:

The conflict ends with the Iron Horde becoming the Horde, and going through the Portal to invade Azeroth and do the whole 1st War over again, fulfilling it's destiny. The thing is, we never see any of that. We just come home for the next expansion to a different Azeroth. The Horde that invades Azeroth this time isn't burdened with the Blood Curse and Gul'dan's betrayal, and as such, the 2nd War progresses differently. The Horde isn't completely routed in their invasion, but rather pushed back to the Stormwind continent. Alliance players may cry foul to this, but wait, there's more: This leaves a stronger alliance, with Lordaeron, Stromgarde, etc. all still there. Many events still progress as they did (one way or another), but the political lines are completely redrawn. Some strange historical things happen to put Blood Elves, Tauren and trolls in the Horde and the Undead (may not be the forsaken anymore) are based in Stormwind, while humans get Lordaeron city again. Night Elves join the Alliance and Draenei, being indebted to the Alliance of the Original timeline come to help. Many events still play out the same way, just with a new map. This new world has temporal issues we need to solve, and we work through time to make sure the Alliance and Horde exist and are strong to fight the upcoming threats.

Lots of issues with that idea. It may appeal to some, it may turn some off.
EDIT: Revised version of this idea in a later post.

Other idea: The final boss is Kil'Jaeden from the main timeline (actually, technically only one Kil'jaeden ever exists) coming to exact his revenge on Velen and reclaim the Orcs, but we kill him, leading into a full-fledged Legion invasion back on the homeland.

I'm not sure how you transition as smoothly as blizzard seems to imply to Naga, Emerald Dream, etc. Unless you make those part of the Legion expansion, which I could very easily see happening.

How would you transition from Warlords to the expansion of your choice?

Last edited by Menel'dirion; 02-04-2014 at 02:56 PM..
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:04 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is online now

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I am sorry, what?
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:39 AM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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Old 01-28-2014, 09:52 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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You act as if the whole point of the thread is limited to coming home to a changed Azeroth. While that's one idea I had, I also had another which you apparently missed. You also missed me question: How would you end WoD to transition to the expansion of your choice?
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:54 AM
belorealah belorealah is offline

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I cannot understand any of this...

But, with no lorderon destruction, there would be no scourge invasion of Quel'thalas. Thus, no blood elves. The Blood Elves would still be high elves and still be alliance.

If you were then to merge the two time lines, as you say, everything on Azaroth (Current lore) would be wiped out. Thus, no Blood Elves, No Forsaken, no trolls within the horde...

Omg, this hurt my head.

Edit -

What I think will happen is we will in fact go to Draenor, do our stuff, win. Come back, smack some old gods about, never speak of Draenor again.

Or, yes, current azaroth will be wiped out by converging timelines. It will be replaced with the timeline of the 'new' draenor. We will go back to wc3.

We all know there is a HUGE fanbase of wc3 lovers who want it back.
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:03 AM
Tilgath Tilgath is offline

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My prediction:

We go to AU-Draenor and do stuff. We end by stopping an AU-Legion invasion. We go back to Prime Azeroth and decide, you know what, our Legion is still a threat. We should really do something about that.

OR

We find out Kairoz is a Legion agent and did the whole thing in an attempt to weaken Prime Azeroth for a new Legion invasion. The Alliance and Horde decide to end the Legion threat once and for all.

Next expansion: Taking the fight to the Legion.

Last edited by Tilgath; 01-28-2014 at 10:05 AM..
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:21 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is online now

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OR they will barely care about a transition and just justify everything with a pre-exp event. How was the Scourge Plague relevant to TBC events? How were Ruby Sanctum/Elemental Unrest relevant to WOTLK? Did Pandaria even have anything relevant to it in the Cata finale?
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:27 AM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
You act as if the whole point of the thread is limited to coming home to a changed Azeroth. While that's one idea I had, I also had another which you apparently missed. You also missed me question: How would you end WoD to transition to the expansion of your choice?
Ok excuse me, I apologize for my rash and misguided answer, let me then reply in a better way

With the current information we have regarding WoD it is hard to conjecture how a transition would play out since it is unknown how the progression will be carried on, while it is safe to assume that it will end in a slaughterhouse for the warlords.

Yet some people are convinced that the WoD orcs will join the horde for... reasons and that it will help justify their lack of numbers despite this have never been built up as an issue ever

As for the transition, well judging from the ones we have previously experienced I say they wont have much going on for them
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Skids taps Megatron's Autobot badge.

Skids: Right. There. What does that badge even mean to you? How has wearing it forced you to modify your behaviour? I'm serious! How has being an Autobot in any way prevented you from doing exactly what you want? Because if the answer is "it hasn't"—then nothing you've said or done in the last six months counts for anything.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
OR they will barely care about a transition and just justify everything with a pre-exp event. How was the Scourge Plague relevant to TBC events? How were Ruby Sanctum/Elemental Unrest relevant to WOTLK? Did Pandaria even have anything relevant to it in the Cata finale?
Well, the Alliance side of the Elemental Unrest event did include the player retrieving the tablet that had been recovered from Ulduar and delivering it to Ironforge, in effect tying Magni's fate going into Cataclysm to the events back in Ulduar during WotLK.

Pandaria though, pretty specifically didn't have a pre-release event or lead-in, much less one that hearkened to the conclusion of Cataclysm.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:20 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
OR they will barely care about a transition and just justify everything with a pre-exp event. How was the Scourge Plague relevant to TBC events? How were Ruby Sanctum/Elemental Unrest relevant to WOTLK? Did Pandaria even have anything relevant to it in the Cata finale?

Quote:
Ok excuse me, I apologize for my rash and misguided answer, let me then reply in a better way

With the current information we have regarding WoD it is hard to conjecture how a transition would play out since it is unknown how the progression will be carried on, while it is safe to assume that it will end in a slaughterhouse for the warlords.

Yet some people are convinced that the WoD orcs will join the horde for... reasons and that it will help justify their lack of numbers despite this have never been built up as an issue ever

As for the transition, well judging from the ones we have previously experienced I say they wont have much going on for them
Except they actually said that WoD's ending leads directly to the next expansion.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:29 PM
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Except they actually said that WoD's ending leads directly to the next expansion.
While I'm not trying to be negative towards you, it must be said; they've changed their minds on bigger things, and often enough, that I don't give that the slightest bit of respect, as a statement.

Halfway through WoD they can, and likely will, based on player feedback, do a total 180 with their plans.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:38 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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While I'm not trying to be negative towards you, it must be said; they've changed their minds on bigger things, and often enough, that I don't give that the slightest bit of respect, as a statement.

Halfway through WoD they can, and likely will, based on player feedback, do a total 180 with their plans.
Ah, but without knowing what the finale is that dovetails to the next expansion, what player feedback will their be to make them change their minds? I can't think of any existing reason at this time that would change their plans. Of course that's because I don't know their plans. And that is probably why they aren't telling anyone.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:41 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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Granted there was some sort of... transition/cohesion from Cataclysm to MoP with it being the age of mortals (again) and MoP being largely about the sha and the horde.

By that token MoP and WoD have a recurring theme of savage bloodthirsty orcs and it even features the same villain so if anything there has been a sense to the expansions progression in contrast to vanilla, TBC and Wotlk who felt disentangled and independent from each other
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Megatron: You've forgotten something else: I am your prisoner. I've been granted conditional bail while we look for the Knights of Cybertron. Where in my bail terms does it say—where precisely does it say—that I have to risk my life to save a handful of strangers? Where does it say that?

Skids taps Megatron's Autobot badge.

Skids: Right. There. What does that badge even mean to you? How has wearing it forced you to modify your behaviour? I'm serious! How has being an Autobot in any way prevented you from doing exactly what you want? Because if the answer is "it hasn't"—then nothing you've said or done in the last six months counts for anything.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:55 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Thinking about it further, I think I'd revise my theory about the Iron Horde invading Azeroth's past to this:

The Iron Horde becomes the Horde, Invades Azeroth in our past as it should have, going through the first and second Wars all over again, except without the burden of demonic corruption, with Durotan or Grommash taking the place that Blackhand had in the 1st War. They still win the first war, they still lose the second war, but this time they aren't afflicted with the lethargy, allowing them to keep more of their culture intact throughout the process, making them less culturally broken when they are liberated. Changes ensue, causing temporal shenanigans for next expansion. Most of history remains unchanged, but subtle differences nibble at the edges of reality. Political lines are mostly the same. Odd tie in: This reality is the one that the WoW movie takes place in.

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Old 02-04-2014, 09:01 PM
Taylorsaurus_Rex Taylorsaurus_Rex is offline

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In the ultimate twist of irony, Gul'dan uses the skull of Ner'zhul to travel to Prime Azeroth following the defeat of the Iron Horde by the combined efforts of the Alliance and Horde.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:00 PM
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First off: they are not going to have the Iron Horde play out the First/Second Wars on an AU-Azeroth. They're not going to do an AU-Azeroth because they've already redone Azeroth once in terms of content and they're not going to do it again.

I can't stress this enough. It's not going to happen.

Second: Trying to warp around the entire history and circumstances of the WoW franchise as a game in order to match with the scenario they're establishing specifically for the Warcraft film is such a monstrous and titanic gamble that there's no way they would ever do it. It strains credulity. Risking the engagement of the existing playerbase on the THIN HOPE that people who go see the movie who have zero prior knowledge of Warcraft will be engaged and come to the game is ludicrous.

The tie-in for X6 is going to be a second expansion on Draenor. The existence of a secondary continent off the south edge of the map is evidence enough of this. Yeah, Blizzard might throw that idea out if something better emerges to develop for X6, but if WoD is being done specifically to introduce Old Draenor and give the devs a clean slate to work with, then the most logical conclusion is WoD Part 2: Legion-Assisted Ogre Killing Spree.

As to the premise, where we knew we'd be killing Arthas/Deathwing from the start, that breaks down under scrutiny: we knew we'd be killing Illidan in BC, but it turns out that he wasn't the big bad, and killing him was pretty inconsequential to the overall plot of BC. Killing Arthas and Deathwing were foregone conclusions specifically because Blizzard knew that having big villains play center stage was better than killing them off in the first patch and then coming up with fuck-all for the players to do afterward from a story conveyance perspective.

And the only reason why players got told that Garrosh was the final boss of MoP was because Metzen sold an expansion about self-reflection and the self-destructive nature of war to a convention hall full of people who play a game called Warcraft that's predicated on perpetuating war. People didn't understand what he was selling, and Blizzard essentially said "it's Garrosh, you guys, it'll all make sense eventually" because they didn't want to throw Metzen under the bus with his philosophy pitch.

We don't need to be told what the end condition for WoD is going to be because it's as self-evident as Arthas and Deathwing were in the past; we're going to Old Draenor to neutralize the threat of the Warlords. If that dovetails into a narrative in X6 in a way that's more intuitive than how BC led into Wrath (ie: it didn't) or Wrath led into Cata (ie: it didn't) or Cata led into Mists (ie: it didn't) then hey, tits. But until we have a greater scope of what's happening in WoD and what we're doing aside from roflstomping brownies, it's anyone's game on what X6 is going to be.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:06 PM
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The final episode of Warlords of Draenor will clearly be a rap battle.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:38 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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/snip

Second: Trying to warp around the entire history and circumstances of the WoW franchise as a game in order to match with the scenario they're establishing specifically for the Warcraft film is such a monstrous and titanic gamble that there's no way they would ever do it. It strains credulity. Risking the engagement of the existing playerbase on the THIN HOPE that people who go see the movie who have zero prior knowledge of Warcraft will be engaged and come to the game is ludicrous.

The tie-in for X6 is going to be a second expansion on Draenor. The existence of a secondary continent off the south edge of the map is evidence enough of this. Yeah, Blizzard might throw that idea out if something better emerges to develop for X6, but if WoD is being done specifically to introduce Old Draenor and give the devs a clean slate to work with, then the most logical conclusion is WoD Part 2: Legion-Assisted Ogre Killing Spree.

As to the premise, where we knew we'd be killing Arthas/Deathwing from the start, that breaks down under scrutiny: we knew we'd be killing Illidan in BC, but it turns out that he wasn't the big bad, and killing him was pretty inconsequential to the overall plot of BC. Killing Arthas and Deathwing were foregone conclusions specifically because Blizzard knew that having big villains play center stage was better than killing them off in the first patch and then coming up with fuck-all for the players to do afterward from a story conveyance perspective.

And the only reason why players got told that Garrosh was the final boss of MoP was because Metzen sold an expansion about self-reflection and the self-destructive nature of war to a convention hall full of people who play a game called Warcraft that's predicated on perpetuating war. People didn't understand what he was selling, and Blizzard essentially said "it's Garrosh, you guys, it'll all make sense eventually" because they didn't want to throw Metzen under the bus with his philosophy pitch.

We don't need to be told what the end condition for WoD is going to be because it's as self-evident as Arthas and Deathwing were in the past; we're going to Old Draenor to neutralize the threat of the Warlords. If that dovetails into a narrative in X6 in a way that's more intuitive than how BC led into Wrath (ie: it didn't) or Wrath led into Cata (ie: it didn't) or Cata led into Mists (ie: it didn't) then hey, tits. But until we have a greater scope of what's happening in WoD and what we're doing aside from roflstomping brownies, it's anyone's game on what X6 is going to be.
Look, people, I'm not just making up the idea that they're actually planning to try to do a real transition between expansions. They said they would at Blizzcon. Could they change their mind? Sure, but we have no indications of them doing so, so let's go with what we've been told so far, shall we?


http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ft-What-s-Next
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:27 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Look, people, I'm not just making up the idea that they're actually planning to try to do a real transition between expansions. They said they would at Blizzcon. Could they change their mind? Sure, but we have no indications of them doing so, so let's go with what we've been told so far, shall we?


http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ft-What-s-Next
Yes, they said they're going to make a transition. I watched the panel, I remember them saying it. You predicated this thread on asking the question "how are they going to make a transition from this expansion into whatever theoretical X6 expansion concept?" I'm arguing that speculating on that transition when we have so little information about what Warlords is going to arc through doesn't really have a lot of legs.

I don't think there's a lot of value in trying to make leaps to explain how killing the Warlords is going to directly set up an Azshara-centered expansion. That might be my bias against a naga-centered expansion talking, but the bottom line is that Blizzard can really do anything at this point and we flat out don't have enough information yet to do anything other trot out all the standard dead horses of future expansion speculation.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:30 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Yes, they said they're going to make a transition. I watched the panel, I remember them saying it. You predicated this thread on asking the question "how are they going to make a transition from this expansion into whatever theoretical X6 expansion concept?" I'm arguing that speculating on that transition when we have so little information about what Warlords is going to arc through doesn't really have a lot of legs.

I don't think there's a lot of value in trying to make leaps to explain how killing the Warlords is going to directly set up an Azshara-centered expansion. That might be my bias against a naga-centered expansion talking, but the bottom line is that Blizzard can really do anything at this point and we flat out don't have enough information yet to do anything other trot out all the standard dead horses of future expansion speculation.
Actually, I agree, I can't think of a good way to connect from Warlords of Draenor to something that's Naga centric, which means it's not their turn yet, or they will be secondary threats.

In the mean time, if that's how you feel, then lets look at it from a different angle. How do you see WoD ending? You don't need to worry about next expansion too much, just where do you see WoD going by the final patch? Against Kairoz, focusing on the Timey Wimey aspect? Against Grommash? Against Kil'Jaeden? Oh wait, you said something about Ogres:

Quote:
The tie-in for X6 is going to be a second expansion on Draenor. The existence of a secondary continent off the south edge of the map is evidence enough of this. Yeah, Blizzard might throw that idea out if something better emerges to develop for X6, but if WoD is being done specifically to introduce Old Draenor and give the devs a clean slate to work with, then the most logical conclusion is WoD Part 2: Legion-Assisted Ogre Killing Spree.
Whether you were serious or not I'm going to run with this. Now personally, I wouldn't go this way simply because in my view it would be MoP all over again. What did we know about Pandaria prior to MoP? Pandaren, and that's about it. What do we know about this place? Ogres, and that's about it. However this is Blizzard, who did MoP, so I don't doubt they're capable of doing it again. They tried to make Pandaria relevant with the Faction War, Y'shaarj, Aqir related Manted, the Zandalari, and Titan related Mogu. You mentioned the wholesale slaughter of Ogres being Legion fueled, so that's one tie in. However, it needs more. What else would you do to make the Ogre Continent relevant to the rest of the Universe?

In the mean time, in defense of my timey-wimey expansion idea:

Quote:
First off: they are not going to have the Iron Horde play out the First/Second Wars on an AU-Azeroth. They're not going to do an AU-Azeroth because they've already redone Azeroth once in terms of content and they're not going to do it again.

I can't stress this enough. It's not going to happen.

Second: Trying to warp around the entire history and circumstances of the WoW franchise as a game in order to match with the scenario they're establishing specifically for the Warcraft film is such a monstrous and titanic gamble that there's no way they would ever do it. It strains credulity. Risking the engagement of the existing playerbase on the THIN HOPE that people who go see the movie who have zero prior knowledge of Warcraft will be engaged and come to the game is ludicrous.
It doesn't have to be a redo of Azeroth. We can still level through Cataclysm and MoP, and then we can go to Draenor, and only when we come home, find the world different, with subtle tweaks in specifc zones handled via phasing and scenarios. And, the world being different, it may be unstable, so we get to go through to time to some of the awesome moments in Azeroth's history to maintain the stability of our temporally fractured world?

Also, in regards to the movie, I was thinking the other way around. WoD + Time expansion is for us the fans, so that we can already assume that any inconsistencies we see in the movie are a result of the temporal meddling, and thus be somewhat mollified.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:51 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Actually, I agree, I can't think of a good way to connect from Warlords of Draenor to something that's Naga centric, which means it's not their turn yet, or they will be secondary threats.

In the mean time, if that's how you feel, then lets look at it from a different angle. How do you see WoD ending? You don't need to worry about next expansion too much, just where do you see WoD going by the final patch? Against Kairoz, focusing on the Timey Wimey aspect? Against Grommash? Against Kil'Jaeden? Oh wait, you said something about Ogres:
Finding out the deal with Kairoz might get managed in Golden's book. Him being a raid boss is going to be dependent on how his reveal goes, so I don't want to place any bets on him yet.

I would be pretty surprised to see most of the warlords still be antagonists by the end of the expansion. Either we kill them, or we beat them in the head enough to realize that working against us is a mistake. Blizzard knows at this point that killing off all the villains is working against them, and I don't think they'd have gone to all the trouble of resurrecting these guys if we're going to turn around and off them all within the expansion. Blackhand and Kilrogg I see being die-hards, Kargath will likely stick around (we've killed him once already and he is noticeably more badass this time around), Ner'zhul seems like a shoe-in to keep around (his narrative in SMV kinda makes it certain) while Gul'dan is probably going to be the guy who stays a villain past WoD, because the WoW narrative needs its Skeletor.

So I could see a narrative where Gul'dan evades capture and confrontation, takes his Stormreavers to the ogre continent, re-invigorates the crumbling ogre empire by offering its leaders super-charged Legion mojo, and so we've got ogre warlocks all the which way being our opposition in X6. This is different from the mogu in noticeable ways, because the mogu were attempting to reclaim their former power and resurrect Lei Shen so they could go back to the old days of ruling Pandaria. These ogres are already used to having power, and while their own power is recently waning, Gul'dan's Legion juice props them right back up so they can go on the warpath and conquer new lands more effectively. I could see Gul'dan trying to figure out how to tear open a new portal to somewhere, ostensibly to give the ogres another target.

There's also a side-argument where the arakkoa are the mogu of this expansion while the ogres are the mantid, but I think that might be a different article.

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
In the mean time, in defense of my timey-wimey expansion idea:

It doesn't have to be a redo of Azeroth. We can still level through Cataclysm and MoP, and then we can go to Draenor, and only when we come home, find the world different, with subtle tweaks in specifc zones handled via phasing and scenarios. And, the world being different, it may be unstable, so we get to go through to time to some of the awesome moments in Azeroth's history to maintain the stability of our temporally fractured world?
There's too much paradox. An Iron Horde that goes to AU-Azeroth and wins the Second War completely changes the landscape of the world, not subtly changes it. Running an entire expansion predicated on trying to do piecemeal corrections against everything the Iron Horde did off-screen feels asinine.

I'm all for doing a post-apocalyptic expansion, but Blizzard already did that with Cataclysm and I don't think we need to retread that.

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Also, in regards to the movie, I was thinking the other way around. WoD + Time expansion is for us the fans, so that we can already assume that any inconsistencies we see in the movie are a result of the temporal meddling, and thus be somewhat mollified.
I think you're giving the playerbase too much credit by assuming they'll be forgiving of adaptation changes given a thin pretext to do so. And much as it might pain me to say it, I think you're giving Blizzard too much credit for being able to manipulate something like that out of Jones and Legendary, because that's some Xanatos-grade plotting to have the film play out in such a way that they can account for all the changes in-game ahead of time.
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  #22  
Old 02-06-2014, 09:00 AM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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Would be cool if they made use of an AU-Talgath to lead in to a Burning Legion exp.
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  #23  
Old 02-06-2014, 10:53 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Finding out the deal with Kairoz might get managed in Golden's book. Him being a raid boss is going to be dependent on how his reveal goes, so I don't want to place any bets on him yet.

I would be pretty surprised to see most of the warlords still be antagonists by the end of the expansion. Either we kill them, or we beat them in the head enough to realize that working against us is a mistake. Blizzard knows at this point that killing off all the villains is working against them, and I don't think they'd have gone to all the trouble of resurrecting these guys if we're going to turn around and off them all within the expansion. Blackhand and Kilrogg I see being die-hards, Kargath will likely stick around (we've killed him once already and he is noticeably more badass this time around), Ner'zhul seems like a shoe-in to keep around (his narrative in SMV kinda makes it certain) while Gul'dan is probably going to be the guy who stays a villain past WoD, because the WoW narrative needs its Skeletor.

So I could see a narrative where Gul'dan evades capture and confrontation, takes his Stormreavers to the ogre continent, re-invigorates the crumbling ogre empire by offering its leaders super-charged Legion mojo, and so we've got ogre warlocks all the which way being our opposition in X6. This is different from the mogu in noticeable ways, because the mogu were attempting to reclaim their former power and resurrect Lei Shen so they could go back to the old days of ruling Pandaria. These ogres are already used to having power, and while their own power is recently waning, Gul'dan's Legion juice props them right back up so they can go on the warpath and conquer new lands more effectively. I could see Gul'dan trying to figure out how to tear open a new portal to somewhere, ostensibly to give the ogres another target.

There's also a side-argument where the arakkoa are the mogu of this expansion while the ogres are the mantid, but I think that might be a different article.



There's too much paradox. An Iron Horde that goes to AU-Azeroth and wins the Second War completely changes the landscape of the world, not subtly changes it. Running an entire expansion predicated on trying to do piecemeal corrections against everything the Iron Horde did off-screen feels asinine.

I'm all for doing a post-apocalyptic expansion, but Blizzard already did that with Cataclysm and I don't think we need to retread that.




You missed my revision of that idea. I'll quote it for you. I'm moving away from a complete revision of the 1st/2nd war and more towards

Thinking about it further, I think I'd revise my theory about the Iron Horde invading Azeroth's past to this:

Quote:
The Iron Horde becomes the Horde, Invades Azeroth in our past as it should have, going through the first and second Wars all over again, except without the burden of demonic corruption, with Durotan or Grommash taking the place that Blackhand had in the 1st War. They still win the first war, they still lose the second war, but this time they aren't afflicted with the lethargy, allowing them to keep more of their culture intact throughout the process, making them less culturally broken when they are liberated. Changes ensue, causing temporal shenanigans for next expansion. Most of history remains unchanged, but subtle differences nibble at the edges of reality. Political lines are mostly the same.
Basically the only thing that would change would be the Orcs conduct the first and second wars as themselves and for themselves, rather than as the pawns. They get defeated, but no lethargy, and Thrall gets to be raised by Orcs instead of Humans. How that affects Orcs could be interesting.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:00 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Basically the only thing that would change would be the Orcs conduct the first and second wars as themselves and for themselves, rather than as the pawns. They get defeated, but no lethargy, and Thrall gets to be raised by Orcs instead of Humans. How that affects Orcs could be interesting.
Having a Thrall who's raised by orcs fundamentally alters his character. To the point where the character is completely unrecognizable. It's kinda like proposing a Varian Wrynn who doesn't watch his father get shanked in the chest; you take away the formative elements of a character's backstory and that character is 100% different from the original.

That might be a fun thought experiment for an elseworlds story, but I don't feel like that's a good direction for an expansion going forward.
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  #25  
Old 02-06-2014, 12:10 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Having a Thrall who's raised by orcs fundamentally alters his character. To the point where the character is completely unrecognizable. It's kinda like proposing a Varian Wrynn who doesn't watch his father get shanked in the chest; you take away the formative elements of a character's backstory and that character is 100% different from the original.

That might be a fun thought experiment for an elseworlds story, but I don't feel like that's a good direction for an expansion going forward.
Meh, I'm not sold on Thrall being raised by Durotan, but I do think it would be interesting to see an Azeroth where orcs weren't culturally broken. That's the point.

The main thrust of the expansion that because the reality that everyone comes home to is different due to meddling, there are some temporal instabilities. Time rifts where you can go back or forward to the certain zones as they were or will be, seeing say, the beginnings of Arathor, the Troll Wars, The Fall of the Aqir, etc, pop up here and there.
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