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Old 12-21-2014, 01:21 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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What do you think the chances are that we'll someday see a content update for Outland and Northrend? Or another Cataclysm-style expansion that revamps Azeroth (again)?

I think that its inevitable that as World of Warcraft gets older that Blizzard will eventually have to go back to the old world to see what improvements can be made to the leveling experience. In the same way that Cataclysm was inevitable because technology had progressed to the point where the old content was starting to age. Outland especially; it doesn't use anything new like phasing or vehicle quests. Chronologically the player progression is a little wonky too because we start off in Cataclysm in 1-60, then go back in time to Northrend and Outland, and then return to the regular timeline by 80. I think as more and more expansions are released there's going to be an increasing need to bring everywhere up to the same point canonically.

But then they might go the other route entirely like Warlords of Draenor is doing with the 90 boost so players don't even have to deal with the old world. But just personally speaking, I would love the chance to revisit Azeroth, Outland and Northrend again. What do you folks think? Will there be another world update?

Last edited by Shaman; 12-21-2014 at 01:29 PM.. Reason: big MT
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Old 12-21-2014, 01:28 PM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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What do you folks think? Will there be another world update?
No.

There is just no way, not after the workload Cata turned out to be (they've said more than once it was far, far more than they thought it would be) they will do anything of that scale again.

At best, we'll get free (on a limited bases) boosts in the future so players can avoid the old content.

I'd prefer it otherwise, I really would. I'd love a phased/updated version of every zone to keep in-line with the current timeline/expansion but this just isn't going to happen with Blizzard's way of doing things.
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:51 PM
AndyJP AndyJP is offline

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I absolutely think they will. A return Northrend is a given since we will be back there eventually when we need another villain.

As for revamps...what if we got a level-crunch? Would that be too weird? Squeeze 1-100 into 1-80, skipping Outland and Northrend, which could be available as alternate leveling zones in Caverns of Time. Cataclysm zones would be 60-65, Pandaria 65-70, and Draenor 70-80. This would give world lore consistency (which has greatly irked me, along with some other inconsistencies), open the way for new expansions into Outland and Northrend, and making it so that leveling an alt doesn't look as daunting once more.

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Old 12-24-2014, 08:30 PM
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Warlords of Draenor is the reworked The Burning Crusade.

Wrath of the Lich King should not be revamped, being the best expansion and seeing how "well" Cataclysm turned out, but it will come...

That said, I would like to see The Spider Kingdom.

There was another good one too somewhere...
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:46 PM
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Warlords of Draenor is the reworked The Burning Crusade.

Wrath of the Lich King should not be revamped, being the best expansion and seeing how "well" Cataclysm turned out, but it will come...

That said, I would like to see The Spider Kingdom.

There was another good one too somewhere...
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Old 12-24-2014, 10:26 PM
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Remember: the first idea for WoD was that Garrosh found an artifact to drastically change our Outland, not to time travel to another universe.
But I suppose Blizzard scrapped the idea of having to update every continent and its storylines every 3 expansions.
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Old 12-24-2014, 11:30 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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I don't think they will do another Northrend expansion. Unlike with Draenor, even if we went back in time before the Scourge, there wouldn't be any significant changes to Northrend's landscape, save more spider people and trolls. Now, if they were to make Azjol-Nerub into a continent beneath another continent, THAT I can get behind. Have one zone stacked on top of another, going deeper than ever before into the earth of Azeroth, opening up the next expansion of another underground continent beneath the crust under the Great Sea...
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Old 12-25-2014, 12:16 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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No.

There is just no way, not after the workload Cata turned out to be (they've said more than once it was far, far more than they thought it would be) they will do anything of that scale again.

At best, we'll get free (on a limited bases) boosts in the future so players can avoid the old content.

I'd prefer it otherwise, I really would. I'd love a phased/updated version of every zone to keep in-line with the current timeline/expansion but this just isn't going to happen with Blizzard's way of doing things.
Pretty much this.

A terrible shame that, since I would love to quest in a zone like the Grizzly Hills again. Perhaps updated with more Dwarven and Gilnean architecture.
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Old 12-25-2014, 11:37 AM
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Remember: the first idea for WoD was that Garrosh found an artifact to drastically change our Outland, not to time travel to another universe.
But I suppose Blizzard scrapped the idea of having to update every continent and its storylines every 3 expansions.
Phasing.

If this were my game, I'd phase everything and use Bronze Flight NPCs in each zone to let players bounce between old and new content at will.

But since Blizzard are Blizzard, we're never going to see the story content we want because that would involve going back to old zones--the only story progression that's allowed is that which can take place in new areas.
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Old 12-25-2014, 11:41 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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After Cataclysm, I don't think Blizzard would try to go back to the old world... unless it is to destroy Alliance bases (Theramore, Nethergarde)
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Old 12-25-2014, 03:49 PM
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I don't think we go back to the old world.
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Old 12-25-2014, 10:00 PM
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Was Cataclysm really that unpopular though? I mean the 1-60 zone revamps had some of the best content in the game. There were significant improvements made for the leveling experience in that expansion. Eastern Plaguelands, Badlands, Stonetalon Mountains, Azshara etc. I think the problem was with the scope rather than the quality (i.e. some stuff seemed rushed or unfinished, like the Arathi Highlands.)

And what happens, say, five years from now when players start feeling the same way they did before Cataclysm having to level in an old world Azeroth that feels significantly worse than the newest content?
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Old 12-25-2014, 10:07 PM
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Was Cataclysm really that unpopular though? I mean the 1-60 zone revamps had some of the best content in the game. There were significant improvements made for the leveling experience in that expansion. Eastern Plaguelands, Badlands, Stonetalon Mountains, Azshara etc. I think the problem was with the scope rather than the quality (i.e. some stuff seemed rushed or unfinished, like the Arathi Highlands.)

And what happens, say, five years from now when players start feeling the same way they did before Cataclysm having to level in an old world Azeroth that feels significantly worse than the newest content?
The lack of end-game content, faction wars, the usual game-balancing, etc. With BoAs and now boosts a lot of people don't really pay attention to zone revamps.

I doubt Blizzard will ever do a revamp. It's too much resources for a minimal gain where they'll be tainted by Cataclysm feedback.
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Old 12-26-2014, 02:30 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Was Cataclysm really that unpopular though? I mean the 1-60 zone revamps had some of the best content in the game. There were significant improvements made for the leveling experience in that expansion. Eastern Plaguelands, Badlands, Stonetalon Mountains, Azshara etc. I think the problem was with the scope rather than the quality (i.e. some stuff seemed rushed or unfinished, like the Arathi Highlands.)

And what happens, say, five years from now when players start feeling the same way they did before Cataclysm having to level in an old world Azeroth that feels significantly worse than the newest content?
The problem is, for all people complained about the old world feeling "old" and wanting it made more current, revamping it mechanically boiled down to making a ton of new stuff that was designed to be left behind and forgotten as quickly as possible. To many leveling in-game is a chore by definition, and so Cataclysm made leveling "better" primarily because there's less of it.

Even since Cataclysm ended they've continued removing quests here and there from the revamped zones (I notice a few new ones missing every time I start an alt) to get people through it even faster, because ultimately what a "better leveling experience" boils down usually involves less leveling to experience.

Revamping zones loses its luster when it by necessity involves deliberately taking steps to minimize the time players have to spend experiencing the things you've revamped.

Some sort of max-level phasing of old zones like Blasted Lands for the Iron Horde invasion (even as slapdash as parts of that felt...) could theoretically be worth the effort for the sake of using the old world to continue the story, but revamping actual leveling zones for leveling players? There's just not enough payoff to revamping zones essentially so that leveling players can get them over and done with faster - it's easier for the designers to just remove existing quests and inflate the XP rewards from those that remain.

Last edited by ARM3481; 12-26-2014 at 02:33 AM..
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Old 12-26-2014, 05:52 AM
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The problem is, for all people complained about the old world feeling "old" and wanting it made more current, revamping it mechanically boiled down to making a ton of new stuff that was designed to be left behind and forgotten as quickly as possible. To many leveling in-game is a chore by definition, and so Cataclysm made leveling "better" primarily because there's less of it.

Even since Cataclysm ended they've continued removing quests here and there from the revamped zones (I notice a few new ones missing every time I start an alt) to get people through it even faster, because ultimately what a "better leveling experience" boils down usually involves less leveling to experience.

Revamping zones loses its luster when it by necessity involves deliberately taking steps to minimize the time players have to spend experiencing the things you've revamped.

Some sort of max-level phasing of old zones like Blasted Lands for the Iron Horde invasion (even as slapdash as parts of that felt...) could theoretically be worth the effort for the sake of using the old world to continue the story, but revamping actual leveling zones for leveling players? There's just not enough payoff to revamping zones essentially so that leveling players can get them over and done with faster - it's easier for the designers to just remove existing quests and inflate the XP rewards from those that remain.
ARM once again (does he ever fail to?) nails it.
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Old 12-26-2014, 02:19 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Was Cataclysm really that unpopular though? I mean the 1-60 zone revamps had some of the best content in the game. There were significant improvements made for the leveling experience in that expansion. Eastern Plaguelands, Badlands, Stonetalon Mountains, Azshara etc. I think the problem was with the scope rather than the quality (i.e. some stuff seemed rushed or unfinished, like the Arathi Highlands.)

And what happens, say, five years from now when players start feeling the same way they did before Cataclysm having to level in an old world Azeroth that feels significantly worse than the newest content?
There was a lot of promise and hype over 'badass epic' storylines but it seems like most of that was dropped except the entire storyline with Thrall. That and a lot of zones having either no resolution or an open ended one that will never see a resolution because that would require them to update the old zones again or upset game balance between the Alliance and Horde.

It also had a lot of promise for involvement with the Alliance's new race, but it's so nonexistant that it seems like only the Horde got an actual new race that added something to them.
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Old 12-26-2014, 03:17 PM
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There was a lot of promise and hype over 'badass epic' storylines but it seems like most of that was dropped except the entire storyline with Thrall. That and a lot of zones having either no resolution or an open ended one that will never see a resolution because that would require them to update the old zones again or upset game balance between the Alliance and Horde.

It also had a lot of promise for involvement with the Alliance's new race, but it's so nonexistant that it seems like only the Horde got an actual new race that added something to them.
I wouldn't say the Goblins added anything so much as just giving the Horde their "le whacky technological quest giver you gives you the obligatory fun-to-use/over the top quest item" that the Gnomes did for the Alliance since The Burning Crusade (I don't remember too many 'whacky' quest items in Vanilla). Considering we had Goblins quite a bit in Horde areas reliant on technology even in Vanilla, I wouldn't say their inclusion added anything bar more of an official 'presence' of Goblins. They could have been removed as a playable race entirely and the Horde's story from Cataclysm to WoD could have been identical. Heck, Garrosh's own Goblins aren't even from the Horde.

That said, having a presence is more than the Worgen got.
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Old 12-26-2014, 03:24 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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I wouldn't say the Goblins added anything so much as just giving the Horde their "le whacky technological quest giver you gives you the obligatory fun-to-use/over the top quest item" that the Gnomes did for the Alliance since The Burning Crusade (I don't remember too many 'whacky' quest items in Vanilla). Considering we had Goblins quite a bit in Horde areas reliant on technology even in Vanilla, I wouldn't say their inclusion added anything bar more of an official 'presence' of Goblins. They could have been removed as a playable race entirely and the Horde's story from Cataclysm to WoD could have been identical. Heck, Garrosh's own Goblins aren't even from the Horde.

That said, having a presence is more than the Worgen got.
True, I'll admit the Horde already had technology with Goblins just being an NPC race providing that.
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Old 12-26-2014, 09:06 PM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

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Warlords will likely be the first of many attempts to continue the story of Azeroth by not actually ever using Azeroth proper ever again. It's going to get weird if they decide to never really revamp the zones again - from a story perspective alone, how many expansions can they go until Cata-era story and zones are just junk and so weird? Will they just point at the level boost and tell you to shut up?

Definitely prepare for more mysterious continents that everyone sorta just missed somehow.

Theoretically, they could use phasing to the point that many 'old' zones are updated and completely changed to a phase just to be used by players to level to max level or even for max-level gameplay itself.

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Old 12-26-2014, 09:11 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Warlords will likely be the first of many attempts to continue the story of Azeroth by not actually ever using Azeroth proper ever again. It's going to get weird if they decide to never really revamp the zones again - from a story perspective alone, how many expansions can they go until Cata-era story and zones are just junk and so weird? Will they just point at the level boost and tell you to shut up?

Definitely prepare for more mysterious continents that everyone sorta just missed somehow.
Or different planets and more time travel.

Which I'll admittedly accept if we get a type of world/continent that's similar to Innistrad or Ravenloft.
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Old 12-26-2014, 09:14 PM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

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Or different planets and more time travel.

Which I'll admittedly accept if we get a type of world/continent that's similar to Innistrad or Ravenloft.
The problem is that eventually it really stops being World of Warcraft then to people.

Draenor, for sure, feels like WoW and distinctly part of it, largely due to its connection to Outland and the history of Warcraft. But other new worlds made from scratch? Players could barely take Pandaria, an actual continent on Azeroth itself, seriously as a part of Azeroth and WoW. Can they succeed in making, say, Argus feel like a legit part of the Warcraft universe?
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Old 12-26-2014, 09:23 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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The problem is that eventually it really stops being World of Warcraft then to people.

Draenor, for sure, feels like WoW and distinctly part of it, largely due to its connection to Outland and the history of Warcraft. But other new worlds made from scratch? Players could barely take Pandaria, an actual continent on Azeroth itself, seriously as a part of Azeroth and WoW. Can they succeed in making, say, Argus feel like a legit part of the Warcraft universe?
If they can put a human/orc building on it (which is everything) then that's likely how they think it will fit Warcraft.
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Old 12-27-2014, 05:44 AM
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I'm still sure the next expansion will be South/High Seas/Naga based.

After that, who knows at this point?
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:21 PM
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I'm still sure the next expansion will be South/High Seas/Naga based.

After that, who knows at this point?
We were saying this in MoP.

Not-Time Travel/AU's has really opened up a narrative shitstorm It's an excuse for them to pump out whatever utterly stupid/epic c00lbro ideas they have in mind. So when they decide "HEY GUYS WOULDN'T FIGHTING THE SECOND WAR WHERE THE ALLIANCE WAS EVIL BE AWESOME?!" is a brilliant idea they have an 'excuse' to do it because LOL AU BLADES OF GRASS.
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Old 12-27-2014, 09:13 PM
AndyJP AndyJP is offline

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Was Cataclysm really that unpopular though? I mean the 1-60 zone revamps had some of the best content in the game. There were significant improvements made for the leveling experience in that expansion. Eastern Plaguelands, Badlands, Stonetalon Mountains, Azshara etc. I think the problem was with the scope rather than the quality (i.e. some stuff seemed rushed or unfinished, like the Arathi Highlands.)

And what happens, say, five years from now when players start feeling the same way they did before Cataclysm having to level in an old world Azeroth that feels significantly worse than the newest content?
For Cataclysm, I loved everything prior to the 80-85 zones, which just couldn't measure up to Wrath. I can see them doing another revamp.
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