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  #5326  
Old 05-15-2018, 01:10 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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  #5327  
Old 05-15-2018, 02:39 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
All of the new introductions to Warcraft lore made in W3 can be compared to the ones done in BFA.

And even so, the ones in BFA are better seeded.

But go on, keep whining.
Has less to do with not liking new introductions and more to do with worrying that Blizzard will give these new introductions the Draenei and Worgen treatment, just put them under a bus for untold amount of years under the justification of "we'll get to it when it fits the story", which might as well just mean they're not interested enough in that new thing they introduced because certain other races don't fall into that pit and seem to get used even when it's not a story that calls for their themes.

Things like Void Elves and Kul Tiran Druids deserve proper fleshing out and being built up to be acceptable parts of the setting. They're not getting any of that based on what's been showcased on the beta, and since beta is coming to a close it seems as if we're stuck with more lost potential as is the usual habit with Alliance storytelling.
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  #5328  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Has less to do with not liking new introductions and more to do with worrying that Blizzard will give these new introductions the Draenei and Worgen treatment, just put them under a bus for untold amount of years under the justification of "we'll get to it when it fits the story", which might as well just mean they're not interested enough in that new thing they introduced because certain other races don't fall into that pit and seem to get used even when it's not a story that calls for their themes.

Things like Void Elves and Kul Tiran Druids deserve proper fleshing out and being built up to be acceptable parts of the setting. They're not getting any of that based on what's been showcased on the beta, and since beta is coming to a close it seems as if we're stuck with more lost potential as is the usual habit with Alliance storytelling.
After Krainz' reply, I just gave up on explaining my thoughts. But, since you picked up the thread, I'll try to flesh out my opinion:

My post even included all the new things I liked over the years. MoP was my favorite expansion, and it was mostly things we had never seen before. And it was well done not only because MoP fleshed out that new continent in marvelous ways, but also because it had an excuse for us to never have learned of any of those new lands and races before. It was literally a place hidden from the rest of the world.

Compare how many continuity problems Legion introduced by retconning the Broken Isles. We have this "continent" that was known for decades, close to EK and Northrend, and visited in the second war, and now we have vrykul living there (and yet, during WotLK, vrykul were a totally new thing, despite Northrend also being a known continent), a nightborne city covered in a bubble just next to the landmass Gul'dan raised, a tauren tribe (despite nobody from EK knowing of tauren before we sailed to Kalimdor in WC3) and night elves, both living and dead (so, why didn't anyone know of the night elves in WC3?). Ok, maybe the night elves moved there after the TFT events, but that's not what the Val'sharah quests imply. It feels like those druids were there for ages.

Legion wasn't a bad expansion. It fleshed over some of those aspects well enough for me to ignore the glaring continuity issues and accept the retcons, but I'm pointing out how world building can be well done or poorly done.

BfA still has a chance to change my opinion, but so far, kul tiran lore seems to skip all the important questions, they used the Alternate Universe yet again, they are introducing new races without properly fleshing them out.

Blizzard needs to strike a balancing between fleshing old lore and introducing new one. After the stellar work that was MoP, they have been fumbling their way throught WoD, got better but still flawed in Legion, and seem to be doubling down on the flaws for BfA.

I like new things so long as they are good and don't mean destroying the old lore that I've been following for years. If any established lore can just be changed at any moment, then what's the point to follow the lore in the first place? And, if new lore seems to be shodilly put together, why should I care about it?
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  #5329  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:43 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
After Krainz' reply, I just gave up on explaining my thoughts. But, since you picked up the thread, I'll try to flesh out my opinion:

My post even included all the new things I liked over the years. MoP was my favorite expansion, and it was mostly things we had never seen before. And it was well done not only because MoP fleshed out that new continent in marvelous ways, but also because it had an excuse for us to never have learned of any of those new lands and races before. It was literally a place hidden from the rest of the world.

Compare how many continuity problems Legion introduced by retconning the Broken Isles. We have this "continent" that was known for decades, close to EK and Northrend, and visited in the second war, and now we have vrykul living there (and yet, during WotLK, vrykul were a totally new thing, despite Northrend also being a known continent), a nightborne city covered in a bubble just next to the landmass Gul'dan raised, a tauren tribe (despite nobody from EK knowing of tauren before we sailed to Kalimdor in WC3) and night elves, both living and dead (so, why didn't anyone know of the night elves in WC3?). Ok, maybe the night elves moved there after the TFT events, but that's not what the Val'sharah quests imply. It feels like those druids were there for ages.

Legion wasn't a bad expansion. It fleshed over some of those aspects well enough for me to ignore the glaring continuity issues and accept the retcons, but I'm pointing out how world building can be well done or poorly done.

BfA still has a chance to change my opinion, but so far, kul tiran lore seems to skip all the important questions, they used the Alternate Universe yet again, they are introducing new races without properly fleshing them out.

Blizzard needs to strike a balancing between fleshing old lore and introducing new one. After the stellar work that was MoP, they have been fumbling their way throught WoD, got better but still flawed in Legion, and seem to be doubling down on the flaws for BfA.

I like new things so long as they are good and don't mean destroying the old lore that I've been following for years. If any established lore can just be changed at any moment, then what's the point to follow the lore in the first place? And, if new lore seems to be shodilly put together, why should I care about it?
For what it’s worth, the Alliance of Lordaeron never actually went to the Broken Isles. That was strictly 3 orcish clans and then 2 Draenor Clans, none of which who actually in Thrall’s Horde. The Playable Horde and the rest of the Eastern Kingdoms Alliance not knowing the Broken Isles isn’t technically a Retcon.

I know, not your point. I don’t disagree with your point. But, this is a lore forum.
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  #5330  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:35 PM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
For what it’s worth, the Alliance of Lordaeron never actually went to the Broken Isles. That was strictly 3 orcish clans and then 2 Draenor Clans, none of which who actually in Thrall’s Horde. The Playable Horde and the rest of the Eastern Kingdoms Alliance not knowing the Broken Isles isn’t technically a Retcon.

I know, not your point. I don’t disagree with your point. But, this is a lore forum.
Yeah, I just used the Isles as an example of how Blizzard changes and retcons things as it sees fit. Considering Northrend was known, Kul Tiras is nearby and the isles are east of the Maelstrom, I find hard to believe no human ship ever stumbled upon the islands before. It's not like they were surrounded by mists like Pandaria.

----------------------------

New build is up. This one will anger some people.

Night elf refugees all over Stormwind.
Ship to Darnassus was replaced by a portal. Now the ship goes to Boralus.



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  #5331  
Old 05-15-2018, 07:04 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I imagine the ones from Kul Tiras may have been about the Broken Isles once in a while. Mainlanders probably just thought they were telling a bunch of Fish stories. By the time it became relevant, Kul Tiras was on its way out of the Alliance.

For what it’s worth, the the Proudmoore’s, both father and daughter, had considerably less trouble getting to Kalimdor than the Horde did.
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  #5332  
Old 05-15-2018, 07:15 PM
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Lordaeron is plagued. Entering the city will kill you.


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  #5333  
Old 05-15-2018, 07:19 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Teldrassil burning is the Horde's moment of triumph. I wonder why it's not done yet? Probably gotta make it really good for the Horde players, unlike the shit stained fuckery that is the "Siege" of Lordaeron.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #5334  
Old 05-15-2018, 08:24 PM
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The first boss of the Kings' Rest dungeon is a defense system the Zandalari put there after stopping an attempt to summon Hakkar on Zandalar thousands of years ago, which I thought was really interesting. And mostly I'm glad Hakkar isn't just forgotten.
That same dungeon's council boss fight is from a time after a civil war where three clan leaders briefly led the empire together instead of an emperor.
Lady Waycrest made the pact with Gorak Tul to keep her sick husband from leaving her, which was hinted at in a book you find near the end of Drustvar too.

Nothing else in the dungeon journal really stood out to me.

Last edited by Asterisk; 05-15-2018 at 08:27 PM..
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  #5335  
Old 05-15-2018, 08:38 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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https://media.mmo-champion.com/image...datedUther.jpg I wonder why Uther’s looking so good.
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  #5336  
Old 05-15-2018, 08:46 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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something that will not matter in the slightest unless it benefits the horde
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #5337  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:05 PM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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It's so sad to see the night elves being homeless in the stormwind harbor!
I hoped that at least they could create a new city of their own to live
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  #5338  
Old 05-16-2018, 12:42 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Amazon put up a spoiler-filled preview for Before the Storm. It includes the epilogue, of all things (you'd think that would be one part of the book that Blizzard wouldn't want spoiled before the official release).

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20764386258
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  #5339  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:58 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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http://de.wowhead.com/news=284426/bo...the-relentless

Missing from this:

- The Dungeon Entrance to "Siege of Boralus" has been moved. Were the Dungeon Portal orignally has been been, seems to be the new Banking Room.

- The Dungeon Portal is now under Tradewind Market.
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  #5340  
Old 05-16-2018, 02:08 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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sylvanas so misunderstood
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #5341  
Old 05-16-2018, 02:13 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepe Stormstout View Post
Amazon put up a spoiler-filled preview for Before the Storm. It includes the epilogue, of all things (you'd think that would be one part of the book that Blizzard wouldn't want spoiled before the official release).

https://www.amazon.com/Before-Storm-.../dp/0399594094
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20764386258
The exact same thing happened on Amazon a few weeks back with the upcoming Five Nights at Freddy's novel. You'd think a screw-up that large wouldn't happen again, especially so soon afterwards.
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  #5342  
Old 05-16-2018, 05:49 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepe Stormstout View Post
Amazon put up a spoiler-filled preview for Before the Storm. It includes the epilogue, of all things (you'd think that would be one part of the book that Blizzard wouldn't want spoiled before the official release).

https://www.amazon.com/Before-Storm-.../dp/0399594094
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20764386258
Do not get to read anything that said?
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:20 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Haha that new Golden book is so Current Blizzard.
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  #5344  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:11 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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http://www.wowhead.com/news=284450/b...ers#void-elves

So after me spending yesterday complaining about lack of Void Elf and Kul Tiran Druid lore, they add something like this. I'm nothing if not appreciative at the very least.
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  #5345  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:22 AM
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Open a Before the Storm topic here, since more spoilers will probatly show up, since people are using the text searcher in the preview to further "datamine" stuff.

(And already found more pretty heavy stuff.)
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  #5346  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:24 AM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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And it's confirmed that the Mag'har flee to Azeroth because the Lightbound pretty much succeed in their crusade. It's implied that Grommash dies buying time so Geya'rah can lead the refugees to safety, but I don't think it's actually shown, so there's the possibility we fight a Light-brainwashed Grom if we ever return to Draenor.

Changing the subject entirely: The sight of those Night Elf refugees huddling around campfires in Stormwind's canals is... Heartbreaking. I gotta give it to Blizzard, they finally made me really care about the Burning of Teldrassil as a story. I hope they can be given some closure.
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  #5347  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
http://www.wowhead.com/news=284450/b...ers#void-elves

So after me spending yesterday complaining about lack of Void Elf and Kul Tiran Druid lore, they add something like this. I'm nothing if not appreciative at the very least.
Thanks! Now the kul tiran druids make sense.

And void elf lore got something. There's still a ton of unanswered questions, but at least we get some understanding of their outlook on the Alliance, and the timeline of Umbric's exile starts to be fleshed out.

This shows how just a little gossip dialogue can improve lore. We shouldn't have had to wait 3 months (or 6 months for those who won't read the spoilers) just to get basic information about a race.

---------------------------------

Now, this text, (probably) from Rexxar, is hypocrisy in its purest form:

Quote:
"Jaina Proudmoore.

She once made a choice to spare us from her father's tyranny. I respected that decision, and how difficult it was.

But she could not forgive what Hellscream did to Theramore. She turned her hatred against all the Horde.

She went too far. Killed too many. Her quest for vengeance must be ended."

You will fight Jaina Proudmoore?

"Her. The Kul Tirans. The whole Alliance, if I must.

I love the Horde. I made a promise to Thrall that I would defend it.

No matter who began this war, I will fight until it ends... or I do."
"Jaina killed her father to spare the Horde. But she can't forgive the Horde just because we bombed her city. I can't forgive her because she killed too many! It does not matter that we started this new war, I'll fight to the death against the Alliance!"
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  #5348  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:51 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Originally Posted by Patrick_C View Post
And it's confirmed that the Mag'har flee to Azeroth because the Lightbound pretty much succeed in their crusade. It's implied that Grommash dies buying time so Geya'rah can lead the refugees to safety, but I don't think it's actually shown, so there's the possibility we fight a Light-brainwashed Grom if we ever return to Draenor.
Imo. he's dead. This actually would be a not so bad closure for AU Grom's story, since he sacrificed his life (again) to safe his people.

Also, imo. it's more likely, that Yrel and the Lightbound kinda attack Azeroth rather us returning to Draenor. (Considering that the Mag'har probatly still had much of the rather advanded Iron Horde tech and still got wrecked, they might be a real threat.)

By the way, you might look in to some of Pyromancer's videos about this.

https://www.youtube.com/user/OldxNite/videos

Quote:
Changing the subject entirely: The sight of those Night Elf refugees huddling around campfires in Stormwind's canals is... Heartbreaking. I gotta give it to Blizzard, they finally made me really care about the Burning of Teldrassil as a story. I hope they can be given some closure.
It's kinda ironic, that the Nelves seemingly now have lost their home similar to what happend to the Gilneans.

Teldrassil was one of their most major Post Third War settlements, considering how strongly Ashenvale Forest, their former main living ground got devestated during it.
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  #5349  
Old 05-16-2018, 09:02 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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just goes to show you the horde are hypocrites of the highest order

"she spared us once but i cannot forgive her for daring to fight back after we blew up her city! I will kill everyone and who gives a shit who started the war!!111"

also fucking lol. lillian voss goes from hating being undead to "the alliance were mean to us victory to sylvanas murder destroy wheeee"
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.

Last edited by Quirnheim; 05-16-2018 at 09:05 AM..
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  #5350  
Old 05-16-2018, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
just goes to show you the horde are hypocrites of the highest order

"she spared us once but i cannot forgive her for daring to fight back after we blew up her city! I will kill everyone and who gives a shit who started the war!!111"

also fucking lol. lillian voss goes from hating being undead to "the alliance were mean to us victory to sylvanas murder destroy wheeee"
Lillian Voss is also a huge hypocrite in this.

She hates undeath, but will side with the guys that she knows will create more undead, instead with the ones that will suffer it.
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