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Old 06-09-2011, 07:45 AM
Soldrethar Soldrethar is offline

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Default Are gnomes steampunk?

What is steampunk you ask?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk

Would you guys say that by this site's definition, gnomes technology/culture is steampunk based?
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:51 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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All of Warcraft is steampunk. From gnomes to dwarves to goblins to Gilneas.
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Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

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Old 06-09-2011, 07:52 AM
Urth Urth is offline

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They're Disney Meets Cyberpunk. Forsaken and Worgen are more in line with steampunk. If there was a Medieval Punk, that'd be Dwarves.

Last edited by Urth; 06-09-2011 at 07:55 AM..
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Urth View Post
They're Disney Meets Cyberpunk. Forsaken and Worgen are more in line with steampunk.
Maybe forsaken, not sure about worgen, they're more realistic victorian london. Which I guess would include some steampunk.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:57 AM
Urth Urth is offline

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We never see expanded Worgen technology, despite countless claims of their "industrialized society". They're Victorian, which is half the whole Steampunk motif. Adding wacky contraptions gets them the other half.
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:05 AM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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"Steam" refers to a retro-futuristic Victorian aesthetic where external combustion engines and related technologies became more advanced and prevalent than they did.

"Punk" refers to a specific kind of dystopian setting, where the related technology is used, often with oppressive and negative connotations.

So no, they have steam engines and pipes everywhere, but it is not steampunk.

Though going by Wikipedia's definition *shudder*, I may be confusing steampunk with "cyberpunk in other eras".
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Last edited by Revenant; 06-09-2011 at 10:08 AM..
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:09 PM
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Pretty much what Revenant said. There's little to no steam in gnomish construction and they're definitely not "punk". They're retro-futuristic weird science, like the kind you'd find in 20s-40s pulp magazines.
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:37 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Tv tropes explains it best Punk Punk from Stone Punk to Bio Punk

Quote:
Technology (and/or Magitech)...

... is ubiquitous and, in retro-futuristic settings, considerably more advanced than that available in the corresponding period.

... is a means to control the public. The actual form of government varies, but it is usually somewhat sinister and oppressive (Dystopia, duh?).
... provides some kind of medium for global or at least wide-ranging communication that is driven by research and/or business, piggybacked by military/political needs.
... is a strategic resource. In our timeline, this started in the 19th century with railroads, the telegraph, and the machine gun; in later settings wars are lost and won in cyberspace, before the army even leaves its barracks. Speaking of the army, while most of the soldiers are using relatively crude weaponry, there will often be an organization whose units pack state-of-the-art weapons and equipment for black-ops work.
... can make people stronger, faster, more perceptive, etc for instance through body modifications/prosthetics. The science of medicine is typically quite sophisticated.
... can create Artificial Humans, Clockwork Creatures, or Ridiculously Human Robots.
... is developed with little regard for harmful consequences to society or nature.
Accordying to my analysis green is what correponds to gnomes, red doesn't and yellow i don't know
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:13 PM
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I'd actually say that Azeroth is a modern day setting with medieval achronisms and magic. Like, it's modern in almost everything, except that wars are still fought with swords. Modern thinking, modern technology, modern science. Wars are still fought out with swords and sticks (and magic).

Well, that's my view anyway.
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Sacredless View Post
I'd actually say that Azeroth is a modern day setting with medieval achronisms and magic. Like, it's modern in almost everything, except that wars are still fought with swords. Modern thinking, modern technology, modern science. Wars are still fought out with swords and sticks (and magic).

Well, that's my view anyway.
That's pretty much what I've been saying for a long, long time. I'm of the opinion that as soon as your setting lets women wear pants and peasants run small businesses instead of foraging in mud and shit all day, you're essentially modern.
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:07 PM
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It almost crosses into near-future sci-fi, with magic thrown in there. Remember, Warcraft II had a heavy focus on oil drilling, pumping and refining, and all of the ships had modern internal-combustion engines. They even had offshore oil platforms, which are an extremely sophisticated and modern-day concept, even in its most rudimentary form.

If it wasn't for the apocalyptic destruction of every major human industrial center in the Second War sending them back into the iron age, the human nations would be on the verge of contemporary modernity.

Add in the widespread use of radios, radar, rocketry, aircraft, jet propulsion, wireless communication, television, robotics, assembly lines, and artificial intelligence (implying the existence of microprocessor technology, or some magitech equivalent) and you've got almost all the ingredients of Earth circa 2000 a.d.

Then look at the cannons and artillery, ballistic technology, homing missiles, land mines, chemical and biological weapons, and all the other weaponry that is more effective and more efficient than the best weapons in the real world, and you're crossing into futuristic territory there.

Now add the deadly laser weapons, teleportation, cloaking, levitation, everything titan-related, and all manner of science-fiction materiel from the gnomes and goblins, and Warcraft has left Earth in the dust.

So, we're really just left with the architecture, the clothing, the feudal titles, and the swords and armor as the only thing keeping the story pinned to a medieval archetype. The first three of those are aesthetic, and don't mean the story takes place in a sub-modern world. The last just makes sense.

Swords and armor only went out of style in the real world when gunpowder technology made them obsolete. In the real world, we don't have thorium, mithril, elementium and eternium (amongst other metals) that make armor resilient enough to turn the best rifles and bullets into pea-shooters. We also don't have enchantments that make our bathrobes increase our intelligence or resist heat, cold, or the meddling of cosmic horrors. Why carry an unreliable pistol that needs bullets when there are magic wands that shoot fireballs? If the real world had all that, guns and kevlar vests would go out of style pretty quickly, and the the police would be patrolling in plate armor with arcanite reapers strapped to their hip.



tl,dr: Warcraft = scifi + magic.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsider View Post
It almost crosses into near-future sci-fi, with magic thrown in there. Remember, Warcraft II had a heavy focus on oil drilling, pumping and refining, and all of the ships had modern internal-combustion engines. They even had offshore oil platforms, which are an extremely sophisticated and modern-day concept, even in its most rudimentary form.
Only Alliance oil tankers, Alliance transports, and ogre juggernaughts had any form of smokestack. I would say that they used external combustion engines. The RPG says that they run on Phlogiston, which is derived from oil, but not in the way we refine it, used in boilers.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

Years.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Farsider View Post
Why carry an unreliable pistol that needs bullets when there are magic wands that shoot fireballs?
Because you still need to spend years if not decades learning magic to use a wind to shoot fireballs, whereas a few months of training at bootcamp can train a serviceable gunman.
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:22 AM
Farsider Farsider is offline

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Quote:
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Because you still need to spend years if not decades learning magic to use a wind to shoot fireballs, whereas a few months of training at bootcamp can train a serviceable gunman.
Since when?

Seriously. On both your statements.
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Old 06-10-2011, 01:33 AM
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Since when?

Seriously. On both your statements.
All of the mages-in-training were still teenagers in the Mage manga, meaning it took more than a little bit of time to learn magic, and since no non-magician I know of can use wands, it's probably more time than it takes to churn out rank and file soldiers (be they human, dwarf, gnome or tauren, all of whom make extensive use of firearms now) to use guns.
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Old 06-10-2011, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Pretty much what Revenant said. There's little to no steam in gnomish construction and they're definitely not "punk". They're retro-futuristic weird science, like the kind you'd find in 20s-40s pulp magazines.
Couldn't agree more. They use ornithopters for god sakes rather than dirigibles.

Steampunk relies more on the views of yesterdays tomorrow through the eyes and minds of victorian england. NOTHING they have even remotely links to those ideals other than the fact they may have used gears once or twice. Thats sort of like suggesting that America is a galactic civilization ruling the stars because the flag has stars on it.

Ideology: Not steampunk, Aesthetics: Not steampunk, History: Not steampunk, World: Not steampunk, Techology: Not steampunk. Conclusion: Not steampunk
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:01 PM
Urth Urth is offline

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If they are not Steampunk, obviously, what are they? I love Gnomes, I even love Gnomeregan. Their attitude and clockwork technology feels very very familiar though, as though it's a motif that's lifted from something else.
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:54 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urth View Post
If they are not Steampunk, obviously, what are they? I love Gnomes, I even love Gnomeregan. Their attitude and clockwork technology feels very very familiar though, as though it's a motif that's lifted from something else.
That's ClockPunk
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Old 06-10-2011, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
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That's ClockPunk
No, it is clockwork (among other things). There is gears, but no punk.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

Years.
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Old 06-10-2011, 01:22 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Quote:
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No, it is clockwork (among other things). There is gears, but no punk.
No, what i'm saying according to his description it would be clockpunk not steampunk
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Old 06-10-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urth View Post
If they are not Steampunk, obviously, what are they? I love Gnomes, I even love Gnomeregan. Their attitude and clockwork technology feels very very familiar though, as though it's a motif that's lifted from something else.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WeirdScience
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:23 PM
Sacredless Sacredless is offline

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Even steel armor can still protect against gunfire. Sure, in the end, you'll be pinned into your own armor if you take too much hits, but technically, it's still possible. Also note that most guns in World of Warcraft are somewhat unreliable, unless we are talking dwarven rifles. Heck, they only just discovered that you need to give bullet a spin to make them land correctly.

The reason why guns replaced swords and armor was because guns were easy to make, easy to use and cheap. Give a footman a gun and he knows how to use it in a day. Give a footman a sword and he knows how to use it in a month. Give a footman magic and he knows how to use it when he's twice as old. However, World of Warcraft is not nearly as stable as our world. We do not know how easy it is for Azeroth humans to make a gun, seeing they'd need to fight off creatures for resources, for which they need weapons, i.e. swords.

Let me put it like this; in a world like Azeroth, resources that are worth fighting for, will be fought for. Like Murphy's law.
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:30 PM
Soldrethar Soldrethar is offline

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I guess clockwork sounds more accurate.
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:39 PM
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I guess clockwork sounds more accurate.
Not really even Clockwork, most of their stuff is like cartoon industiral cyberage. They have computers, complex AIs, a god damn nuclear powered city, their use of gears is a pretty minor part of a wacky ass whole. I think their soviet era propoganda for recapturing works better for their aesthetic.
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:56 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Fine, they have a lot of different technologies from different real-life eras. There is no punk though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Ten.

Years.

Last edited by Revenant; 06-10-2011 at 03:21 PM..
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