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  #26  
Old 12-01-2013, 12:50 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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A lot of desert and mountains.
I talked about how western China is quite desolate, though yes, it is mostly desert and mountains.
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  #27  
Old 12-01-2013, 12:50 PM
HoodedMan HoodedMan is offline

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Yeah, this ties in with the article PajamaSalad sent regarding the perception of China in other countries.

Are you from Kazakhstan, HoodedMan? My understanding is that Kazakhstan's energy wealth makes it a target for both Russian and Chinese business interests.
I am. Hi

Well, Kazakhstan's own proximity to these Red Giants kind of puts it in such position.
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  #28  
Old 12-01-2013, 12:51 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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I talked about how western China is quite desolate, though yes, it is mostly desert and mountains.
Well not like you need more than that.
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  #29  
Old 12-01-2013, 12:53 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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I am. Hi

Well, Kazakhstan's own proximity to these Red Giants kind of puts it in such position.
Hello! Are you from Almaty or Astana? I've seen photos of the latterŚit looks very futuristic.

And yes, Kazakhstan is in a very difficult geographical situation.
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  #30  
Old 12-01-2013, 12:59 PM
HoodedMan HoodedMan is offline

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Originally Posted by destron View Post
Hello! Are you from Almaty or Astana? I've seen photos of the latterŚit looks very futuristic.

And yes, Kazakhstan is in a very difficult geographical situation.
I am from Atyrau. It's actually on Western part of the country. A lot of Chinese workers here anyway. City's nickname is Oil Capital of Kazakhstan. China has it's shares here.

People here like to say Astana is built (partially) by Atyrau's money
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  #31  
Old 12-01-2013, 01:02 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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I am from Atyrau. It's actually on Western part of the country. A lot of Chinese workers here anyway. City's nickname is Oil Capital of Kazakhstan. China has it's shares here.

People here like to say Astana is built (partially) by Atyrau's money
Ah, I didn't know that (about Atyrau). Thanks.
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  #32  
Old 12-01-2013, 02:16 PM
Shroombie Shroombie is offline

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While not geographical, I'd argue that a major factor in Chinese Politics has been the Century of Humiliation. For most of it's history, China has been a bastion of civilization, and has consistently been preyed upon by foreign powers, whether it's nomadic invaders, western colonizers, or Japanese imperialists. I think right now people in China are getting the idea that it's time for them to regain what they view as their rightful place in the world, and if that means going to war with 'barbarians', then so be it.

Also, I just googled Astana, and dayumn! That place looks like it jumped out of a 50's sci-fi novel.
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  #33  
Old 12-01-2013, 02:36 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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While not geographical, I'd argue that a major factor in Chinese Politics has been the Century of Humiliation. For most of it's history, China has been a bastion of civilization, and has consistently been preyed upon by foreign powers, whether it's nomadic invaders, western colonizers, or Japanese imperialists. I think right now people in China are getting the idea that it's time for them to regain what they view as their rightful place in the world, and if that means going to war with 'barbarians', then so be it.

Also, I just googled Astana, and dayumn! That place looks like it jumped out of a 50's sci-fi novel.
Yeah, while I mentioned this, I didn't go into much detail. It is, however, an influence on Chinese foreign policy. A Chinese friend of mine has said that this sense of humiliation goes back to the Mongol Invasion. China found itself at the mercy of outside powers for much of the second millennium AD, and the government will do everything in its power to ensure this does not happen again.
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  #34  
Old 12-01-2013, 02:47 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shroombie View Post
While not geographical, I'd argue that a major factor in Chinese Politics has been the Century of Humiliation. For most of it's history, China has been a bastion of civilization, and has consistently been preyed upon by foreign powers, whether it's nomadic invaders, western colonizers, or Japanese imperialists. I think right now people in China are getting the idea that it's time for them to regain what they view as their rightful place in the world, and if that means going to war with 'barbarians', then so be it.

Also, I just googled Astana, and dayumn! That place looks like it jumped out of a 50's sci-fi novel.
The Century of Humiliation is a tool used by the Communist party to keep people in line by villainizing the "other." Usually foreigners. It's the oldest trick in the book really.

It also means that they can conveniently avoid having to admit that the reason they were dominated for so long was because the West has left them in the dust technologically, economically, politically, and culturally. China has historically never cared much for things outside of China and for most of their history considered themselves to be the center of the world precisely because the achieved hegemony in the east and never had anyone seriously challenge them until the 17th century. Realizing that those people on the other side of Eurasia had surpassed you to such a huge extent was a big shock that they still haven't totally recovered from.
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  #35  
Old 12-01-2013, 03:04 PM
Shroombie Shroombie is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
The Century of Humiliation is a tool used by the Communist party to keep people in line by villainizing the "other." Usually foreigners. It's the oldest trick in the book really.

It also means that they can conveniently avoid having to admit that the reason they were dominated for so long was because the West has left them in the dust technologically, economically, politically, and culturally. China has historically never cared much for things outside of China and for most of their history considered themselves to be the center of the world precisely because the achieved hegemony in the east and never had anyone seriously challenge them until the 17th century. Realizing that those people on the other side of Eurasia had surpassed you to such a huge extent was a big shock that they still haven't totally recovered from.
That's basically what I'm saying. I'm well aware that the Century isn't historically accurate. What we're talking about here isn't objective fact though, and rather how the Chinese perceive things.
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  #36  
Old 12-01-2013, 04:35 PM
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Ninja Edit: This video explains China's geopolitical situation well



This video focuses mostly on India and South Asia, but also relates to China's geopolitical situation as well. Enjoy.


Last edited by Chef; 12-01-2013 at 04:39 PM..
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  #37  
Old 12-01-2013, 06:12 PM
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I've always been interested in how the ancient "mandate of heaven" still affects Chinese politics. The drive to maintain positive economic growth despite negative political and ecological results might be due to this philosophy.
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  #38  
Old 12-01-2013, 06:41 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Neither China nor India will be a superpower any time soon. That they are even where they are now is less a matter of smart governance or geopolitical strategy and more their sheer mass.

The next superpower will be the European Union and the United States will remain a superpower.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.

Last edited by Fojar; 12-01-2013 at 06:44 PM..
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  #39  
Old 12-01-2013, 06:46 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I don't know about the EU. They are having a lot of economic and debt problems. The US is too but not nearly as badly.
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  #40  
Old 12-01-2013, 06:48 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Most of the EU's problems right now are a result of low political integration, something that I see changing over the next century.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #41  
Old 12-01-2013, 06:50 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Doesn't the EU have a low birth rate though and a lot of nations are having trouble paying all their bills?
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  #42  
Old 12-01-2013, 06:53 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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PJ I hope that you aren't trying to segue into "The EU will never be a superpower because they aren't neoliberals."
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #43  
Old 12-01-2013, 06:55 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I am just questioning whether or not the EU is on the way to becoming a super power. They don't have much of a military and their GDP per capital isn't that high. I don't think they are that unified either.
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  #44  
Old 12-01-2013, 07:01 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
I am just questioning whether or not the EU is on the way to becoming a super power. They don't have much of a military and their GDP per capital isn't that high. I don't think they are that unified either.
As I said, these problems are a result of the lack of political integration between its various member states, something that immigration, globalization, and the rapidly shrinking world is likely going to change over the course of the next century.

That being said, I don't predict a multipolar world as a result of this, I predict that the center of power will just return to the North Atlantic. I doubt that even a politically integrated EU would seek a military as powerful as the US's, and I predict that the relationship between these two superpowers will be symbiotic.

I predict an economic crash for China in the next few decades and I predict that Indian growth will begin to peter out and plateau as their population reaches critical mass. If there's a large, wide spread epidemic in the next century then both India and China will undergo economic crashes, political upheaval, and possible armed conflict.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #45  
Old 12-01-2013, 07:39 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Or the EU could fail and have its economies weakened and its nations becoming more independent.

:X
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  #46  
Old 12-01-2013, 07:43 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
Or the EU could fail and have its economies weakened and its nations becoming more independent.

:X
The Eurozone is not the European Union.

And that Greece hasn't killed it is a testament to how strong it is.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #47  
Old 12-01-2013, 07:52 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Yeah but is it getting better? Isn't debt, unemployment, and GDP growth still poor?
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  #48  
Old 12-01-2013, 07:53 PM
EdWunclerIII EdWunclerIII is offline

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Yeah but is it getting better? Isn't debt, unemployment, and GDP growth still poor?
It is improving, yes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/25/bu...life.html?_r=0
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  #49  
Old 12-01-2013, 08:00 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Shroombie View Post
While not geographical, I'd argue that a major factor in Chinese Politics has been the Century of Humiliation. For most of it's history, China has been a bastion of civilization, and has consistently been preyed upon by foreign powers, whether it's nomadic invaders, western colonizers, or Japanese imperialists. I think right now people in China are getting the idea that it's time for them to regain what they view as their rightful place in the world, and if that means going to war with 'barbarians', then so be it.

Also, I just googled Astana, and dayumn! That place looks like it jumped out of a 50's sci-fi novel.
Isn't modern China basically founded by a steppe horde?
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  #50  
Old 12-01-2013, 08:00 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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That sounds good.

I was just looking at stuff like...

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm...pcode=tec00115

and

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cac...2013-AP-EN.PDF
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