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  #126  
Old 12-19-2013, 06:54 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Except all you have to do is google Eurosceptism in the UK and see how most polls about the topic turn out-Most people would either want to leave the Eu or are undecided.
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  #127  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:06 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Except all you have to do is google Eurosceptism in the UK and see how most polls about the topic turn out-Most people would either want to leave the Eu or are undecided.
Yes they want to get out, doesn't mean it's the right thing for them. Leaving the EU would be economically disastrous for the UK as most businessmen say.
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  #128  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:10 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Ignore the Liberals bullshit on this, the truth is the vast majority of WORKING people (so, Liberals are out here, since most Liberals I know are spoiled, rich, middle class teenagers/20somethings) do not want to be part of the EU.

Noone in their right minds wants to be part of an organisation that dictates how we can run our own country or how our laws should work.

The EU is a monstrous, Anti-Democratic mess. And it's all going to blow up soon enough, and Europe may well be plunged back into Fascism and Nationalism. All because of the EU and the Liberals telling people how to live, not asking them.

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Yes they want to get out, doesn't mean it's the right thing for them. Leaving the EU would be economically disastrous for the UK as most businessmen say.
No. For every businessman you can name, I can name one who says the opposite. That arguement of yours is just one of the regular strawman the Libtards throw around.
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  #129  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:15 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Ignore the Liberals bullshit on this, the truth is the vast majority of WORKING people (so, Liberals are out here, since most Liberals I know are spoiled, rich, middle class teenagers/20somethings) do not want to be part of the EU.

Noone in their right minds wants to be part of an organisation that dictates how we can run our own country or how our laws should work.

The EU is a monstrous, Anti-Democratic mess. And it's all going to blow up soon enough, and Europe may well be plunged back into Fascism and Nationalism. All because of the EU and the Liberals telling people how to live, not asking them.
How is the EU Anti-Democratic? In fact I'm going to claim that the EU is far more democratic than EU countries alone.

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No. For every businessman you can name, I can name one who says the opposite. That arguement of yours is just one of the regular strawman the Libtards throw around.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24773179

Yes because tearing 5% of economy and shitting on the international status of the city of London is great.
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  #130  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:18 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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How is the EU Anti-Democratic? In fact I'm going to claim that the EU is far more democratic than EU countries alone.
It's not complex. When a country (not just the UK, any country) is constantly being told it "can't do that, because the EU says so" that's Anti-Democratic. Especially when, as in the UK's case, you were never even ASKED if you wanted to be part of the EU. (I don't, and know very few people who do)

The BBC's biased, Left-Wing stance is well noted (and duly mocked) in the UK. Try again please.
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  #131  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:32 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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It's not complex. When a country (not just the UK, any country) is constantly being told it "can't do that, because the EU says so" that's Anti-Democratic. Especially when, as in the UK's case, you were never even ASKED if you wanted to be part of the EU. (I don't, and know very few people who do)
You are messing democracy with bureaucracy. The reasons why they say "can't do that" is because treaties that were agreed by the democratic governments. You can't say these law are anti-democratic because they weren't set by mob role, otherwise every law is anti-democratic and society get nothing done.

From what I understand there was a referendum at the time and it was supported. Now if you want to say that you never agreed to be part of the EU or the ECC, it's another argument altogether.

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The BBC's biased, Left-Wing stance is well noted (and duly mocked) in the UK. Try again please.
I don't know anything about UK news bias, I generally consider the BBC unbiased and people that complain it's biased often is because it they don't agree with them.

Here is the Daily Telegraph.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ree-trade.html
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  #132  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:38 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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From what I understand there was a referendum at the time and it was supported. Now if you want to say that you never agreed to be part of the EU or the ECC, it's another argument altogether.
We've never had a referendum on the EU, simple as that. Cameron lied last time around and he's lying again now about giving people a referendum, he won't. (It's a moot point because he won't win, but I digress. )

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I don't know anything about UK news bias, I generally consider the BBC unbiased and people that complain it's biased often is because it they don't agree with them.

Here is the Daily Telegraph.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ree-trade.html
Fair enough, I apologise for any assumption I may of made there.

Let me just give you a bit of friendly advise, that's the Daily Mail you linked, not the Telegraph. If you link the Daily Mail, regardless of how well your intentions are, or how decent the article may be, the Left in the UK will call you a racist, Nazi, gay-hating Bigot, because the Left in the UK are some of the biggest cunts around that don't understand the concept of people having different opinions.

As for the article itself; it's biased scaremongering from greedy Business leaders that want cheap and easy-to-fire labour from Eastern Europe.
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  #133  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:50 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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We've never had a referendum on the EU, simple as that. Cameron lied last time around and he's lying again now about giving people a referendum, he won't. (It's a moot point because he won't win, but I digress. )
The UK had an referendum on joining the ECC which evolved into the EU. You had a referendum.

Barroso did say people prefer to vote for the original deal than a cheap fake.

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Fair enough, I apologise for any assumption I may of made there.

Let me just give you a bit of friendly advise, that's the Daily Mail you linked, not the Telegraph. If you link the Daily Mail, regardless of how well your intentions are, or how decent the article may be, the Left in the UK will call you a racist, Nazi, gay-hating Bigot, because the Left in the UK are some of the biggest cunts around that don't understand the concept of people having different opinions.

As for the article itself; it's biased scaremongering from greedy Business leaders that want cheap and easy-to-fire labour from Eastern Europe.
They also want to rid of the working time directive from the EU. So the argument is easily the same. The UK seems to have a lot of misconceptions about that directive.
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  #134  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:56 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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The UK had an referendum on joining the ECC which evolved into the EU. You had a referendum.
The ECC was not the EU, if people had known what it would become they'd of voted No. That was also in 1973. That is 40 years ago. It's not acceptable to say we should be bound by something that was voted on by a totally different generation (or 2 generations even) that was a totally different organisation.

I won't even get into the way mainstream politicians used cheap scare tactics to get people to vote Yes.
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  #135  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:57 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Sounds more like most people from the UK want to leave the EU, yet those who don't want them to leave are not from UK.
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  #136  
Old 12-19-2013, 08:00 AM
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Sounds more like most people from the UK want to leave the EU, yet those who don't want them to leave are not from UK.
Of course, the Americans are also desperate for us not to leave, because they get a nice little puppet state in the EU without having to get into it themselves.

I'd had enough of being other people's bitch, frankly. We are strong enough to stand on our own. Though let's be clear, despite the cries from the Left, leaving the EU doesn't suddenly mean we can't trade or have relations. Anyone who thinks we won't have relations with the EU afterwards is deluded.
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  #137  
Old 12-19-2013, 12:08 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Hammerbrew, you've just written all the stuff I haven't been arsed to write. You'll always be my bro.
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  #138  
Old 12-19-2013, 12:43 PM
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Ashendant seems to be forgetting the part when the EU forced Ireland to vote yes in referendums for them to implement the Lisbon treaty. Twice.
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  #139  
Old 12-19-2013, 01:32 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
Sounds more like most people from the UK want to leave the EU, yet those who don't want them to leave are not from UK.
To be fair if Europe just did what it wanted half the time we'd be hearing about a new war between countries every year.
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  #140  
Old 12-19-2013, 01:56 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Hammerbrew View Post
Of course, the Americans are also desperate for us not to leave, because they get a nice little puppet state in the EU without having to get into it themselves.

I'd had enough of being other people's bitch, frankly. We are strong enough to stand on our own. Though let's be clear, despite the cries from the Left, leaving the EU doesn't suddenly mean we can't trade or have relations. Anyone who thinks we won't have relations with the EU afterwards is deluded.
The UK doesn't have to be anyone's bitch. They can be one of our best friend! I wouldn't fault a country for not wanting to sacrifice their sovereignty to something like the EU.
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  #141  
Old 12-19-2013, 02:05 PM
EdWunclerIII EdWunclerIII is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
The UK doesn't have to be anyone's bitch. They can be one of our best friend! I wouldn't fault a country for not wanting to sacrifice their sovereignty to something like the EU.
But if they ended up being America's literal bitch in Europe, it'd be ok?
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  #142  
Old 12-19-2013, 02:12 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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But if they ended up being America's literal bitch in Europe, it'd be ok?
Well, America and Britain do have a "special relationship"...
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  #143  
Old 12-19-2013, 03:02 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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I really hope the UK doesn't leave the EU. That would strengthen France and France is the bad guy in the EU, wanting other countries' money to fund their agriculture subsidies and military operations.
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  #144  
Old 12-19-2013, 03:05 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by RobLore View Post
I really hope the UK doesn't leave the EU. That would strengthen France and France is the bad guy in the EU, wanting other countries' money to fund their agriculture subsidies and military operations.
Doesn't the UK does this every so often, raise some noise about leaving, but when push comes to shove, they quietly back out and reafirm their loyalty to the EU?

Or am I misreading the reports on the BBC?
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  #145  
Old 12-19-2013, 03:11 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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Yeah, but David Cameron is promising a referendum and there will be lots of populism.
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  #146  
Old 12-19-2013, 03:25 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
Sounds more like most people from the UK want to leave the EU, yet those who don't want them to leave are not from UK.
Historically the UK has always been somewhat detatched from continental politics and only really participated if it looked like there was a strong hegemenous power emerging that they needed to contain, so this attitude is hardly surprising.

Part of being an island. It makes people insular. Globalization is affecting the UK just as much as everyone else though and they can't afford to be insular.
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  #147  
Old 12-19-2013, 04:14 PM
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The intelligent among us do not want to leave the EU, despite all the bomasticity you may hear otherwise. That's one of the things I love about the EU, it gets things done by removing the democratic element.

I prefer to be told what is right, then to elect people who do what is wrong. The EU maintains standards, it assists the movement of people and goods, makes sure those goods are of decent quality, pays huge sums in support of local infrastructure and development, maintains our countryside as an agricultural breadbasket and not a dead corporate wasteland.

Many of these manoeuvres would be difficult politically, but the EU cuts out the nonsense and makes them possible.
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  #148  
Old 12-19-2013, 04:18 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by Eagan View Post
The intelligent among us do not want to leave the EU, despite all the bomasticity you may hear otherwise. That's one of the things I love about the EU, it gets things done by removing the democratic element.

I prefer to be told what is right, then to elect people who do what is wrong. The EU maintains standards, it assists the movement of people and goods, makes sure those goods are of decent quality, pays huge sums in support of local infrastructure and development, maintains our countryside as an agricultural breadbasket and not a dead corporate wasteland.

Many of these manoeuvres would be difficult politically, but the EU cuts out the nonsense and makes them possible.
I'm suddenly terrified of the EU.
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  #149  
Old 12-19-2013, 04:21 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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I'm suddenly terrified of the EU.
Americans have nothing to fear, so you should not worry. The EU is not infallible, and has made some wrong moves, for example, requiring national railways to separate track ownership from train operation, however, they serve us better than our elected politicians.

Democracy is not infallible either. It hasn't been the norm for that long. There is no reason to put it on a pedestal, as present US politics show. Soon, the age of democracy will fall, and technocratic regimes will take over. It is a natural evolution.
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  #150  
Old 12-19-2013, 04:24 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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I'm suddenly terrified of the EU.
Yeah, with the exception of free movement he just described the things I don't like about the EU. There is a serious democratic deficit in it, which is probably adding to the anti-EU movements, and unfortunetly, I've come to the realise that the European "internal market" doesn't have any ambition to evolve into anything like a free market. Rather, it replaces regulations in one state with a massive regulation, covering the entire region.
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