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View Poll Results: Which Kingdom was Most Important
Lordaeron 20 42.55%
Stromgarde 2 4.26%
Kul'tiras 0 0%
Gilneas 0 0%
Dalaran 3 6.38%
Alterac 2 4.26%
Stormwind 10 21.28%
Quel'thalas 5 10.64%
Khaz Modan 1 2.13%
Aerie Peak 0 0%
Gnomeregan 4 8.51%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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  #76  
Old 12-01-2013, 08:18 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Anne_Neritas View Post
Have you not read any of my posts?
I admit being perplexed about the whole position of yours to adequately engulf all of the information. Care to link which ones?

If it's about Kul Tiras and Dalaran being the most important, then I have already outlined all of their actions in the games and the books. Even if we ignore the lore and say that EVERY mage is Kirin Tor and ship is Kul Tiras regardless of team color, it's still not enough to make them the most important - the backbone of your army is elsewhere. And the book annihilated the ship factor almost completely, by getting rid of any Horde fleet.
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  #77  
Old 12-01-2013, 08:22 AM
Anne_Neritas Anne_Neritas is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
I admit being perplexed about the whole position of yours to adequately engulf all of the information. Care to link which ones?

If it's about Kul Tiras and Dalaran being the most important, then I have already outlined all of their actions in the games and the books. Even if we ignore the lore and say that EVERY mage is Kirin Tor and ship is Kul Tiras regardless of team color, it's still not enough to make them the most important - the backbone of your army is elsewhere. And the book annihilated the ship factor almost completely, by getting rid of any Horde fleet.
Stormwind

They held off the Orcs for the longest, doing a great deal of damage to them.

They have Lothar who is the one who brought the kingdoms together and secured aid from the High Elves. Lothar also led the Alliance itself. They also may have been the second biggest contributer to the Silver Hand.

No Stormwind = human kingdoms fell before they got a chance, given Stormwind was the most militant of the Kingdoms, anyone else likely would have folded fast.

No Stormwind = no Lothar to bring everyone together
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  #78  
Old 12-01-2013, 08:30 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Anne_Neritas View Post
Stormwind

They held off the Orcs for the longest, doing a great deal of damage to them.

They have Lothar who is the one who brought the kingdoms together and secured aid from the High Elves. Lothar also led the Alliance itself. They also may have been the second biggest contributer to the Silver Hand.

No Stormwind = human kingdoms fell before they got a chance, given Stormwind was the most militant of the Kingdoms, anyone else likely would have folded fast.

No Stormwind = no Lothar to bring everyone together
Alright, but that's a pre-Alliance factor and a refugee nation factor. By the time Alliance was created, Azeroth was the unifying clay, the one who have given everyone the goal, but not the most able to help the war effort.

Lothar wasn't a politician. He wouldn't try and take the leadership mantle if Terenas didn't try to push him into it.
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  #79  
Old 12-01-2013, 08:35 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Aside from Dalaran mages and Kul Tiras ships, neither of the Seven Kingdoms have unique units.
I don't even like to count the mages and the ships as exclusively Dalaran or Tirasian.

Each nation had its own clique of magic users, especially Quel'thalas and Stormwind. And there were likely plenty of ships volunteered from Stormwind's and Lordaeron's fleets.
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  #80  
Old 12-01-2013, 08:47 AM
Anne_Neritas Anne_Neritas is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Alright, but that's a pre-Alliance factor and a refugee nation factor. By the time Alliance was created, Azeroth was the unifying clay, the one who have given everyone the goal, but not the most able to help the war effort.

Lothar wasn't a politician. He wouldn't try and take the leadership mantle if Terenas didn't try to push him into it.
Except that Lothar was the one to bring them together and lead them.
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  #81  
Old 12-01-2013, 08:50 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I don't even like to count the mages and the ships as exclusively Dalaran or Tirasian.
Me too.

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Originally Posted by Anne_Neritas View Post
Except that Lothar was the one to bring them together and lead them.
Except that Lothar would never do that if he wasn't pressed to do it. He's the epitome of a figurehead, useful by the virtue of both being a good commander, a most ancient noble, and yet lacking the royal title.
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  #82  
Old 12-01-2013, 12:45 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Me too.


Except that Lothar would never do that if he wasn't pressed to do it. He's the epitome of a figurehead, useful by the virtue of both being a good commander, a most ancient noble, and yet lacking the royal title.
Regardless of whether or not he was pressed to do it by Terenas, he counts as a considerable contribution from Stormwind, not Lordaeron.

I would also point out that without Lothar they wouldn't have gotten the token of elven support they got in the beginning, which very well may have been the reason that Turalyon was there to end the siege of Quel'thalas when he did. Which means that Quel'thalas would probably have been turtled up in Silvermoon under their sunwell bubble for who knows how long, conributing nothing to the war effort. Quel'thalas also would probably have been caught even more unawares without that little group that went out to honor Lothar's claim of alliance. No Stormwind, no Quel'thalas, and as such, I claim all Quel'thalas votes as Stormwind votes.

That said, while I vote Stormwind, I can definitely understand Lordaeron's arguement.
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  #83  
Old 12-01-2013, 01:01 PM
Anne_Neritas Anne_Neritas is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Regardless of whether or not he was pressed to do it by Terenas, he counts as a considerable contribution from Stormwind, not Lordaeron.

I would also point out that without Lothar they wouldn't have gotten the token of elven support they got in the beginning, which very well may have been the reason that Turalyon was there to end the siege of Quel'thalas when he did. Which means that Quel'thalas would probably have been turtled up in Silvermoon under their sunwell bubble for who knows how long, conributing nothing to the war effort. Quel'thalas also would probably have been caught even more unawares without that little group that went out to honor Lothar's claim of alliance. No Stormwind, no Quel'thalas, and as such, I claim all Quel'thalas votes as Stormwind votes.

That said, while I vote Stormwind, I can definitely understand Lordaeron's arguement.
I can get the Lordaeron thing too. My issue was that there are those who would attribute things to Lordaeron which were not fully them. As I said at the start:

Quote:
The most important person of the original Kingdoms was Lothar. Stop attributing what he did to Lordaeron. And since he is a Knight of Stormwind, Stormwind was the most important of the Kingdoms.
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  #84  
Old 12-01-2013, 01:22 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by Anne_Neritas View Post
The most important person of the original Kingdoms was Lothar. Stop attributing what he did to Lordaeron. And since he is a Knight of Stormwind, Stormwind was the most important of the Kingdoms.
Even if I also think Stormwind was the most important kingdom, there are jsut so many things wrong with that post.
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  #85  
Old 12-01-2013, 08:38 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Lothar was really the only one who held them together. Everything started falling apart pretty much the minute after he died.

Thus, I voted for Azeroth/Stormwind.
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And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #86  
Old 12-01-2013, 08:53 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
Lothar was really the only one who held them together. Everything started falling apart pretty much the minute after he died.

Thus, I voted for Azeroth/Stormwind.
I dunno, the Beyond the Dark portal novel at least painted Varian as being capable of talking the remaining guys into keeping together till after the expedition was lost.
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  #87  
Old 12-01-2013, 11:09 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
Lothar was really the only one who held them together. Everything started falling apart pretty much the minute after he died.

Thus, I voted for Azeroth/Stormwind.
Really? Turalyon did a good job until he disappeared. One of the primary problems of the Post-War Alliance was economics and that was Terenas's doing. I doubt that Anduin Lothar would have done a damn thing differently.
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