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  #26  
Old 10-24-2010, 02:54 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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there's also the seaweed panel
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  #27  
Old 10-24-2010, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
there's also the seaweed panel
I think that might be the tentacle one, i can't tell, don't have a pic handy.
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  #28  
Old 10-24-2010, 03:15 PM
Nuke1096 Nuke1096 is offline

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Originally Posted by RobLore View Post
an arcehology item mentions a drowned, dreaming old god sleeping so deep in the ocean that there is no light, in the sunken city of ny'athola
lots of refrences to dreams and he is described as a goat with seven eyes
Interesting that it looks very goatish. Xavius looks like one as well. Any connection perhaps?

Also, perhaps the Old God's name is inspired by Nyogtha.

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According to the story, the Necronomicon refers to Nyogtha as "the Dweller in Darkness"--an epithet used by August Derleth in the story of the same name to refer to Nyarlathotep; thus, it may be that Nyogtha is yet another of Nyarlathotep's nigh-endless avatars. Nyogtha appears as a shapeless, dark mass.
Remember that concept art of the "Shapeless Ones"?

http://www.wowpedia.org/Shapeless

Last edited by Nuke1096; 10-24-2010 at 03:31 PM..
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  #29  
Old 10-24-2010, 03:49 PM
jjstraka jjstraka is offline

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Whether the one who is corrupting Deathwing is a female-based, mother-like one from the ocean, or one who may be more based on Azathoth (also referred to as nuclear chaos, and the blind idiot god, which makes me think of Pan), I do think that Blizz is at their best storytelling wise when they are ripping off Lovecraft.
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  #30  
Old 10-24-2010, 05:18 PM
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I was totally expecting this expansions old god to be Nyarlathotep based... what with Uldum, and the artwork in the Decent into Madness etc. I might have been wrong, it could be Shub I suppose. But everything with the nightmare, the oceanic origins, the being deathwings master is really Shub's MO... I mean, The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young was more about breeding horrible offspring that manipulation...

Everyones talking big about shub, but Nyarlathotep not only starts with an N but seems more like the type based on his appearences across multiple stories. Dreams in the Witchhouse for example.

Last edited by Sonneillon; 10-24-2010 at 05:55 PM..
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  #31  
Old 10-24-2010, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
I mean, The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young was more about breeding horrible offspring that manipulation...
Everyone needs a hobby, don't they? Even the Old Ones.
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  #32  
Old 10-24-2010, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Joshmaul View Post
Everyone needs a hobby, don't they? Even the Old Ones.
Curses I've been quoted now I cant fix that typo.

In all reality, suggesting any of the Oldgods have direct lovecraftian counterparts or things they are based upon I suspect is erroneous to begin with. C'thun doesn't really resemble any of the Oldgods, not in physical appearance the nature of the lore or the gameplay mechanics.

Same goes for Yogg'saron, outside of similar names he has very very little in common with Yog-Sothoth's nature, mechanics or appearance. I have a feeling this trend will continue.
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  #33  
Old 10-24-2010, 05:53 PM
Vaeku Vaeku is offline

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Originally Posted by Lowtide View Post
I can see it coming: N'Zath, the giant womb. As if Lanathel's ovaries shaped hall wasn't frightening enough.

Although, that sounds pretty rad. A giant, pulsating womb-like room with a roughly female shaped nightmarish creature whose lower body is merged with the wall at the back of the room or suspended from the ceiling, while masses of Shapeless Ones form from the ground and walls, babbling like children while they swarm you.
So many jokes could be made out of this... Must... Resist...



Anyways, that sounds kinda disgusting but also kinda interesting.
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  #34  
Old 10-24-2010, 06:16 PM
Themiskan Themiskan is offline

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In reference to the spelling, Metzen and Afrasabi said that the name is seen in Cataclysm in a few spots, though never specifically spelled out as the Old God's name. That is, initially after being asked what the name of the Old God was, Afrasabi said that you could find it in the game if you were looking. Then Metzen asked if we should give them the name, and they did. Also I believe they corrected themselves to call the old god an IT instead of a he.

Also, I think the only information that people have been using to tie this old god, responsible for the nightmare and cataclysm/Deathwing with the maelstrom is the one archaeology item that references a sleeping old god. Unless I'm mistaken and theres more information, I don't think thats enough information at the moment to tie them together.

The actual was question I believe was "what is the name of this expansions old god." So unless they misunderstood the question, it seems we will see him in this expansion, to those asking if the old god would be in another expansion.
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  #35  
Old 10-24-2010, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Themiskan View Post
In reference to the spelling, Metzen and Afrasabi said that the name is seen in Cataclysm in a few spots, though never specifically spelled out as the Old God's name. That is, initially after being asked what the name of the Old God was, Afrasabi said that you could find it in the game if you were looking. Then Metzen asked if we should give them the name, and they did. Also I believe they corrected themselves to call the old god an IT instead of a he.
Do the tentacles in the Nightmare area of the Barrens say anything? That is the first place I would think to look. Twilight Highlands is a close second.

Quote:
Also, I think the only information that people have been using to tie this old god, responsible for the nightmare and cataclysm/Deathwing with the maelstrom is the one archaeology item that references a sleeping old god. Unless I'm mistaken and theres more information, I don't think thats enough information at the moment to tie them together.
The connection between the Old Gods and the Maelstrom has also been made in the War of the Ancients trilogy, and throughout the RPG. It is very Cthulhu.
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  #36  
Old 10-25-2010, 08:26 PM
Nuke1096 Nuke1096 is offline

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I'm not sure if this has actually been posted on these forums yet, but these are the whisperings from the puzzle box regarding Ni'Zoth.



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At the bottom of the ocean even light must die

The silent, sleeping, staring houses in the backwoods always dream. It would be merciful to tear them down.

There is no sharp distinction between the real and the unreal.

Even death may die.

There is a little lamb lost in dark woods.

All places, all things have souls. All souls can be devoured.

What can change the nature of a man?

The stars sweep chill currents that make men shiver in the dark.

You will all be alone in the end.

Do you dream while you sleep or is it an escape from the horrors of reality?

Look around. They will all betray you. Flee screaming into the black forest.

In the land of Ny'alotha there is only sleep.

In the sleeping city of Ny'alotha walk only mad things.

Ny'alotha is a city of old, terrible, unnumbered crimes.


Y'knath k'th'rygg k'yi mrr'ungha gr'mula.

The void sucks at your soul. It is content to feast slowly.

The drowned god's heart is black ice.

It is standing right behind you. Do not move. Do not breathe.

Have you had the dream again? A black goat with seven eyes that watches from the outside.

In the sunken city, he lays dreaming.


Open me! Open me! Open me! Then only will you know peace.

You resist. You cling to your life as if it actually matters. You will learn.


I've highlighted the most interesting ones imo. A few things to take note of...

- First off, it references the Old God as a "he". So I do not think we'll be getting a female Old God unfortunately, at least not yet.

- The City of Ny'alotha seems to be a reference to either Nyarlathotep or Nyogtha

- The location of Ny'alotha and all the dreaming references all but confirms that the Maelstrom and Nightmare Old God is one and the same.

- "A black goat with seven eyes" seems to be a direct reference to Shub-Niggurath. As well as the Black Forest. These are the source "The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young" and "The Black Ram of The Forest With A Thousand Ewe"

Also, read this excerpt regarding Shub-Niggurath. I don't know about you, but to me, that's just oozing Xavius tie-ins. All the more so, if this is going to go down in an Azshara Expansion.

Quote:
The Black Goat may be the personification of Pan, since Lovecraft was influenced by Arthur Machen's The Great God Pan (1890), a story that inspired Lovecraft's "The Dunwich Horror" (1929).

In this incarnation, the Black Goat may represent Satan in the form of the satyr, a half-man, half-goat. In folklore, the satyr symbolized a man with excessive sexual appetites. The Black Goat may otherwise be a male, earthly form of Shub-Niggurath an incarnation she assumes to copulate with her worshipers.

Last edited by Nuke1096; 10-25-2010 at 08:36 PM..
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  #37  
Old 10-26-2010, 03:10 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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I think Blizzard is basing their 5 Old Gods around the 5 most prominent Lovecraftian gods:

Great Old Ones: Cthulhu Shub-Niggurath
Outer Gods: Azathoth Nyarlathotep Yog-Sothoth

It's interesting to note that:
-Azathoth is related to time
-Nyarlathotep could represent the chaos of the opposite to magic

Image of Shub-Niggurath here:



Pretty much hints "Nightmare" Old God.

Also, as for the "Emerald Nightmare" dimension, just read this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamlands
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  #38  
Old 10-26-2010, 06:24 AM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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You see i think pushes my theory even further that she will be the first Old God to be the major villain of the expansion in a similar sense to Deathwing, Illidan and the Lich King.
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  #39  
Old 10-26-2010, 09:45 AM
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after i retought about all the info we have, i think it's safe to say that blizzard actually mixes lovecraftian gods to make their own.

as for:
Quote:
The City of Ny'alotha seems to be a reference to either Nyarlathotep or Nyogtha
i think it's a refference to R'lyeh, the sunken city where c'thulhu was sleeping. oh, what a nerdgasm would i have if it were to appear in WoW.
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  #40  
Old 10-26-2010, 10:04 AM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Originally Posted by Stackattack View Post
after i retought about all the info we have, i think it's safe to say that blizzard actually mixes lovecraftian gods to make their own.

as for:

i think it's a refference to R'lyeh, the sunken city where c'thulhu was sleeping. oh, what a nerdgasm would i have if it were to appear in WoW.
As you just said they make it their own, its a refrence to both.
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  #41  
Old 10-26-2010, 10:13 AM
Nuke1096 Nuke1096 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stackattack View Post
after i retought about all the info we have, i think it's safe to say that blizzard actually mixes lovecraftian gods to make their own.

as for:

i think it's a refference to R'lyeh, the sunken city where c'thulhu was sleeping. oh, what a nerdgasm would i have if it were to appear in WoW.
Yeah the city itself is likely referencing that. But the name seems to be inspired by those two.

Quote:
You see i think pushes my theory even further that she will be the first Old God to be the major villain of the expansion in a similar sense to Deathwing, Illidan and the Lich King.
Except it refers to the Old God as a he and not a she. Unless that whisper is referring to somebody or something else, which is always a possibility.
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  #42  
Old 10-26-2010, 10:20 AM
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i think we should remember that yogg's avatar was actually female, Sara. perhaps it's the best to say IT, when talking about N'zath?
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  #43  
Old 10-26-2010, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Stackattack View Post
i think we should remember that yogg's avatar was actually female, Sara. perhaps it's the best to say IT, when talking about N'zath?
Very true, I always felt the whole Sara thing was idioticly squandered. She should have been a quest NPC and showed up outside of the instance in some way, or affected things outside of Ulduar. It felt like it was supposed to be a surprise or something when you first see her, but who cares about some random vrykul chick (when their entire race generally wants us all dead) whom we have never seen, met or been manipulated by before.

It was silly and pointless when it could have been a glorious reveal and chest master play by an oldgod.
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  #44  
Old 10-26-2010, 11:22 AM
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The Sara thing was likely a remnant of one of their original plans considering Northrend is full of dropped storylines or storylines that just never got off the ground.
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  #45  
Old 10-26-2010, 11:40 AM
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The Sara thing was likely a remnant of one of their original plans considering Northrend is full of dropped storylines or storylines that just never got off the ground.
Similarly, the stained glass designs of the Old Gods in Ulduar: As much as I'd love to believe that there was a creative directive to set the groundwork for multiple old gods and one female "benevolent" old goddess with a dress made of tentacles... it's far more likely that the "old goddess" stained glass was intended to be foreshadowing of Sara's true form.
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  #46  
Old 10-26-2010, 12:45 PM
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Ah... just imagine when we're all old and gray living in the post apocalyptic wastelands and listening over our radios as intrepid explorers unearth Blizzards lost design notes and reveal all the chatter to us...
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  #47  
Old 10-28-2010, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Exxile87 View Post
I think it would be refreshing to redeem Deathwing instead of killing him off. Think about it. We haven't actually had a boss in WoW that did a turnaround. What if we kill the old god behind his madness and the Eathwarder returns to his senses. I know he has to die for what he's done, but it would be awesome for him to have a Darth Vader ending.
That would be too epic for words. That single turn around could be the single best piece of WarCraft lore ever to exist. Think of the confusion, the revelation, think of it all.

Or don't because they said they're going to kill him.
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  #48  
Old 10-28-2010, 09:28 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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That would be too epic for words. That single turn around could be the single best piece of WarCraft lore ever to exist. Think of the confusion, the revelation, think of it all.

Or don't because they said they're going to kill him.
Of Illidan, Arthas, and Deathwing... Deathwing is the least redeemable. We know he was good once, but that was over 10k years ago and we never actually got any stories where he was a good guy at the time. Hes pure evil now, and redeeming him would be lame. Redeeming his position, however, with a new Black Dragon Earthwarder would be better.
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  #49  
Old 10-28-2010, 10:05 PM
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Of Illidan, Arthas, and Deathwing... Deathwing is the least redeemable. We know he was good once, but that was over 10k years ago and we never actually got any stories where he was a good guy at the time. Hes pure evil now, and redeeming him would be lame. Redeeming his position, however, with a new Black Dragon Earthwarder would be better.
...that actually makes me curious. Will we ever hear about Neltharion's accomplishments prior to his corruption outside a few lines in an RP book or novel? As an aspect, how much did he do? How did he grow to be so trusted by the others? Why did he and Malygos get along so well?

I wouldn't mind seeing a redemption story, but when you watch the event between him and Alexstraza in the Twilight Highlands (ground and air together - 5.00 mark) you see that he's... well he's further gone than ever before. He literally starts breaking apart, shooting out fire, lava, and old god-ish tentacles. The last ten thousand years haven't been kind to Neltharion. I think it unlikely, if not impossible, to redeem him.

Redeeming the position of earth warder, however, is very possible after the Badlands chain. We have a cleansed black dragon egg ready for... aspectization Another curiousity comes up with that. Is Kalec truly empowered with the Heart of Magic? Does Deathwing have a similar titan-made artifact empowering him? Is it part of him by now?

So many questions!!!
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  #50  
Old 10-29-2010, 03:43 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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...that actually makes me curious. Will we ever hear about Neltharion's accomplishments prior to his corruption outside a few lines in an RP book or novel? As an aspect, how much did he do? How did he grow to be so trusted by the others? Why did he and Malygos get along so well?
You know, it is possible he was evil the whole time. When we temporally first meet him, at the start of the WotA books, he was already pretending to be good and chumy with the other aspects while he was secretly evil. Who knows how long he was doing that? Could have been that way all along.
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