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  #4401  
Old 03-14-2018, 07:40 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Well, it's a good thing Mag'har orcs being horde was confirmed by their /silly and /flirt interactions; otherwise this would have blown the alliance theory to new heights:

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Originally Posted by Saurfang in the new build
I have stopped counting the days I have sat in this cell. It has, however, given me a great deal of time to reflect.
You think you are here to take me back to Orgrimmar. Back to the Warchief. You are mistaken.
After all she has done, I will never return to her Horde.
What do you mean?
Make sure you know the difference between loyalty and honor.
And pray you never have to choose.
This also suggests either Saurfang isn't the one who recruits the Mag'har OR we'll get them before launch as theorized.
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  #4402  
Old 03-14-2018, 08:26 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
This also suggests either Saurfang isn't the one who recruits the Mag'har OR we'll get them before launch as theorized.
I think the one recruiting Mag'har is Eitrigg, not Saurfang. Eitrigg's gossip text in the embassy makes me think of that.

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Just have Sethrak join the Alliance and then give High Elf customization to Void Elves, and then you'll have curbed about 70% of the Alliance bitching about how much better Horde allied races are.
I really don't understand the Sethrak fandom. They have cool models, sure, but do not scream "playable race" for me. Also, a race of slavers in the Alliance?

Sethrak is the kind of race that I really don't care about. If Alliance gets some other cool options (and none of the confirmed Allied Races do it for me), I'd just go "meh" if Sethrak is added. But, if Alliance does not get something really freaking good, I'll probably hate Sethrak forever as yet another uninteresting addition after bland draenei, generic blue elves, fat humans and (ok, they are cool, but not my thing) Dark Iron Dwarves.

I think the Alliance equivalent to Vulpera will come from Kul Tiras, maybe Stormsong, instead. We know so little of that place right now.
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  #4403  
Old 03-14-2018, 08:34 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Also, a race of slavers in the Alliance?
So what?
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  #4404  
Old 03-14-2018, 08:45 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
So what?
Slavery equals eeeeeeevil.
So, in my opinion, they do not fit. And not only morally, they also do not fit visually.

Again, my opinion.
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  #4405  
Old 03-14-2018, 08:52 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Slavery equals eeeeeeevil.
So, in my opinion, they do not fit. And not only morally, they also do not fit visually.

Again, my opinion.
The logical additions to the Alliance would have been Ethereals and Vrykul, but the Not-High Elves with Void and the Not-Vrykul kinda cancel any possibility of this ever happening. And Even Holier Draenei kinda cancels Broken too. So now we are stuck with ridiculously random shit because Blizzard couldn't be bothered with this faction.
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  #4406  
Old 03-14-2018, 09:04 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I really don't understand the Sethrak fandom. They have cool models, sure, but do not scream "playable race" for me. Also, a race of slavers in the Alliance?

Sethrak is the kind of race that I really don't care about. If Alliance gets some other cool options (and none of the confirmed Allied Races do it for me), I'd just go "meh" if Sethrak is added. But, if Alliance does not get something really freaking good, I'll probably hate Sethrak forever as yet another uninteresting addition after bland draenei, generic blue elves, fat humans and (ok, they are cool, but not my thing) Dark Iron Dwarves.

I think the Alliance equivalent to Vulpera will come from Kul Tiras, maybe Stormsong, instead. We know so little of that place right now.
I don't think they will be a playable race, but I definitely would like them. We're going to be working with a neutral subset of them that don't practice any of that slavery and are fighting against the more evil Sethrak, but again that is just as likely a case they won't be playable than for as they could just as well be the Klaxxi or Arakkoa Outcasts of this expansion.

Still, Alliance already are recruiting Dark Irons who make casual jokes about slavery so it's not like it'd be that unfitting at this point. Horde are most likely getting Vulpera who have their own set of unique animations, so another allied race with unique animations for Alliance would be a proper response to that. They are already growing in popularity on the official forums as well, probably even rivaling Vulpera now, and I certainly wouldn't mind having them.
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  #4407  
Old 03-14-2018, 09:10 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Slavery equals eeeeeeevil.
So, in my opinion, they do not fit. And not only morally, they also do not fit visually.

Again, my opinion.
Kul Tirans themselves are implied to practice slavery. But the Sethrak aren't going to be a race. There are tons of better options with established history as allies to the Alliance.
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  #4408  
Old 03-14-2018, 09:21 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Slavery equals eeeeeeevil.
So, in my opinion, they do not fit. And not only morally, they also do not fit visually.

Again, my opinion.
Eh.

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Good guys, bad guys, made-up words. Let's see who formerly owned this gorgeous hunk-uh. Ah, this guy was an arms dealer. Made his bank selling weapons to the bad guys. (hologram shows a tie fighter) Oh... And the good. (hologram shows a x-wing) Finn, let me learn you something big. It's all a machine, partner. Live free, don't join.
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  #4409  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:30 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Slavery being evil is almost beside the point. The reason it doesn't work for the Alliance or the Horde (despite Blizzard stubbornly keeping it around in the Horde against all narrative logic and reason) is because if a race is willing to enslave people, it means they're as likely as not to see any race that isn't their own as a viable source for more slaves as soon as it becomes convenient.

Even notwithstanding the fact that we've been constantly told they hate slavery even as they continue doing it, it especially remains idiotic that slavery's still a thing among the orcs when one considers that it means the other Horde races are just tacitly looking the other way whenever one of their own kind ends up the property of some orcish slavemaster.

Just look at Valeera. Her situation basically suggests that Slivermoon apparently just lets its people be taken as slaves to fight to death if they happen to misbehave and run afoul of the orcs while doing so. It's an enormously fucked up situation that completely undermines the idea that these races are supposed to be allies when one of them can decide the circumstances under which the other becomes somebody's property. It makes it seem like only a moron or a crazy person would ever join the Horde if the primary race involved on some level sees its allies as potential slaves.

Last edited by ARM3481; 03-14-2018 at 10:33 PM..
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  #4410  
Old 03-14-2018, 11:13 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Hey guyssssss

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  #4411  
Old 03-14-2018, 11:30 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Slavery being evil is almost beside the point. The reason it doesn't work for the Alliance or the Horde (despite Blizzard stubbornly keeping it around in the Horde against all narrative logic and reason) is because if a race is willing to enslave people, it means they're as likely as not to see any race that isn't their own as a viable source for more slaves as soon as it becomes convenient.

Even notwithstanding the fact that we've been constantly told they hate slavery even as they continue doing it, it especially remains idiotic that slavery's still a thing among the orcs when one considers that it means the other Horde races are just tacitly looking the other way whenever one of their own kind ends up the property of some orcish slavemaster.

Just look at Valeera. Her situation basically suggests that Slivermoon apparently just lets its people be taken as slaves to fight to death if they happen to misbehave and run afoul of the orcs while doing so. It's an enormously fucked up situation that completely undermines the idea that these races are supposed to be allies when one of them can decide the circumstances under which the other becomes somebody's property. It makes it seem like only a moron or a crazy person would ever join the Horde if the primary race involved on some level sees its allies as potential slaves.
I think I'm with ARM on this one. Slavery being evil is kinda without question, and the specific slavery we DO see put into play by the Horde is completely discordant and artificial.

Not to harp too hard upon this point, but the fact that Blizzard wants us to buy the Horde as a noble and heroic race (despite the part where they also are totally okay with enslaved gladiators) isn't really a justification for forced implementation. The entire mechanism of the underground arena scene was only a vector for the re-creation of Varian Wrynn, and that could have been done in a way that didn't make Thrall and the New Horde appear to be completely two-faced.
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  #4412  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:17 AM
Mending Mending is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
Kul Tirans themselves are implied to practice slavery. But the Sethrak aren't going to be a race. There are tons of better options with established history as allies to the Alliance.
How are they implied to practice slavery?
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  #4413  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:36 AM
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This is getting ridiculous, Blizzard have just confirmed that Sylvanas is going to die this expansion, literally mop 2.0
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  #4414  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:59 AM
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Kul'Tirans confirmed first Alliance Allied Race actually worth it. Still not rolling a Druid on them; the wicker-theme just looks idiotic to me. I'll play my dragonturtle.
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  #4415  
Old 03-15-2018, 02:49 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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http://www.wowhead.com/news=282714/b...arios-spoilers

More updated broadcast text.

And a Kul'Tiran Folksong about how much they hate Jaina. (Which we already learned in the Chronicles Vol. 3 previews.)

Plus more Boralus updates.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=282713/b...or-build-26231

Edit:

More stuff + a new Worldmap for Kezan. (This is most likely how we get into the Undermine Dungeon.)

http://www.wowhead.com/news=282709/b...sil-model-load

Last edited by Vineyard; 03-15-2018 at 03:04 AM..
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  #4416  
Old 03-15-2018, 03:51 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
We're going to be working with a neutral subset of them that don't practice any of that slavery and are fighting against the more evil Sethrak,
Ah, that's a little better. Solves one of my qualms.
But I still see them as "meh".

Quote:
They are already growing in popularity on the official forums as well, probably even rivaling Vulpera now, and I certainly wouldn't mind having them.
I wouldn't mind having them... if we got at least a few meaningful other races.
All but one (Dark Iron) Alliance allied races have so far been asspulls.
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  #4417  
Old 03-15-2018, 10:39 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Mending View Post
How are they implied to practice slavery?
I don't have the exact quest, but IIRC one of them mentioned slavers.
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  #4418  
Old 03-15-2018, 10:50 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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As I recall, the Ashvanes are implied to have their hands in everything having to do with maritime commerce in Kul Tiras, both legal and illegal. That means pirates, and it's already been established since WotLK that at least some of the pirate fleets on Azeroth have no qualms about engaging in slavery. Not necessarily using slaves themselves, but we see them involved in the "buying" (i.e. kidnapping) and selling part.

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  #4419  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:07 PM
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  #4420  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:58 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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So destroyed Teldrassil is just going to be a skybox effect? I mean it's a good use/extension of the Argus skybox tech, but what happens when someone flies to Teldrassil's physical location? Will they just put a big invisible wall?
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  #4421  
Old 03-15-2018, 01:05 PM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
So destroyed Teldrassil is just going to be a skybox effect? I mean it's a good use/extension of the Argus skybox tech, but what happens when someone flies to Teldrassil's physical location? Will they just put a big invisible wall?
Wait what? How the hell's THAT supposed to work?
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  #4422  
Old 03-15-2018, 01:07 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I wouldn't mind having them... if we got at least a few meaningful other races.
All but one (Dark Iron) Alliance allied races have so far been asspulls.
Well, other than High Elves, the most meaningful race that come to mind are Furbolgs. They've been a thing since WC3 and have been either Alliance or at least more friendly with the Alliance for a long time. They'd make a great counterpart to Vulpera if they have Worgen animations, and there you'd basically get two allied races with the same skeleton as the Cataclysm races.

I would certainly like that just as much as Sethrak, if not more.
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  #4423  
Old 03-15-2018, 01:13 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
So destroyed Teldrassil is just going to be a skybox effect? I mean it's a good use/extension of the Argus skybox tech, but what happens when someone flies to Teldrassil's physical location? Will they just put a big invisible wall?
I'm guessing the fatigue mechanic will be used. Perhaps the physical space will just be water.
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  #4424  
Old 03-15-2018, 01:39 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
So destroyed Teldrassil is just going to be a skybox effect? I mean it's a good use/extension of the Argus skybox tech, but what happens when someone flies to Teldrassil's physical location? Will they just put a big invisible wall?
I think that'll be used in the scenario. No way it'll be that in the world.

In the world, they'll probably just leave a burnt stump in place of the whole zone, with Zidormi in Rut'theran to change phases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Well, other than High Elves, the most meaningful race that come to mind are Furbolgs. They've been a thing since WC3 and have been either Alliance or at least more friendly with the Alliance for a long time. They'd make a great counterpart to Vulpera if they have Worgen animations, and there you'd basically get two allied races with the same skeleton as the Cataclysm races.

I would certainly like that just as much as Sethrak, if not more.
Also include broken and vrykul as meaningful races.
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  #4425  
Old 03-15-2018, 01:56 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I think that'll be used in the scenario. No way it'll be that in the world.

In the world, they'll probably just leave a burnt stump in place of the whole zone, with Zidormi in Rut'theran to change phases.
I don't see why they would do that. It would be far easier to select a seafloor tile, select the area containing the zone, and level out the terrain based on the seafloor tile. Better than having to sculpt that terrain and add smoldering effects.

All that's left to do after that is delete the NPC spawns and the various assets. Select the area and hit delete.

I'm sure it's more complex than that, but I'd be shocked if it took more than an hour.
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