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  #6951  
Old 04-27-2017, 08:03 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Don't give Bolvar any ideas, or I'll wake up with a new, lewd title one of these days.

I think the dwarf/human lesbian couple was in MoP.

Anyway, we've had elf/human, orc/ogre, orc/eredar, Wild God/Elune, Wild God/Mammoth and Keeper/Elemental offspring, and harpies breeding with other species is an in-game rumour that has never been disproven.
Found it!

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Marvin_Wobblesprocket
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Tamara_Wobblesprocket

Course, I was wrong about it being a Dwarf/Human pairing, but still.
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  #6952  
Old 04-27-2017, 08:04 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
Found it!

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Marvin_Wobblesprocket
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Tamara_Wobblesprocket

Course, I was wrong about it being a Dwarf/Human pairing, but still.
Oh! Yeah, I remember those two!

Lewd.
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  #6953  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:43 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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So, are all those non-Illidari Demon Hunters retconned away now, per World of Warcraft: Illidan, or is Wowpedia lying to me?

Last edited by Revenant; 05-01-2017 at 01:50 PM..
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  #6954  
Old 05-01-2017, 02:02 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
So, are all those non-Illidari Demon Hunters retconned away now, per World of Warcraft: Illidan, or is Wowpedia lying to me?
Well, that one guy in Darkshore got killed didn't he?

And Loramus joined the Illidari, so I don't think there are any left in-game.

But there can be, lorewise.
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  #6955  
Old 05-01-2017, 04:29 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
Well, that one guy in Darkshore got killed didn't he?

And Loramus joined the Illidari, so I don't think there are any left in-game.

But there can be, lorewise.
He means that the Warcraft III "Demon Hunter" unit and all the NPCs based on it do not exist per Illidan. In that book, demon hunters first existed when Illidan made the Illidari.

It solves a plot hole based on the nature of the other demon hunters and how they started emulating Illidan, but gets rid of the backstories of the few demon hunter NPCs outside of Outland.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

Years.
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  #6956  
Old 05-01-2017, 05:52 PM
Whitrix Whitrix is offline

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There were 4 initially non-Illidari demon hunters.

-Telarius Voidstrider (Darkshore), killed by Maiev in the past.
-Loramus Thalipedes, now part of the Illidari. I think it isn't revealed how he became one yet.
-Illysanna Ravencrest, who emulated Illidan in the War of the Ancients or aftermath, now part of the Illidari and killed (but may return if she's a demon).
-Feronas Sindweller, admirer of Illidan. Only demon hunter left alive who isn't (for now) a member of the Illidari.
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  #6957  
Old 05-02-2017, 08:58 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Whitrix View Post
There were 4 initially non-Illidari demon hunters.

-Telarius Voidstrider (Darkshore), killed by Maiev in the past.
-Loramus Thalipedes, now part of the Illidari. I think it isn't revealed how he became one yet.
-Illysanna Ravencrest, who emulated Illidan in the War of the Ancients or aftermath, now part of the Illidari and killed (but may return if she's a demon).
-Feronas Sindweller, admirer of Illidan. Only demon hunter left alive who isn't (for now) a member of the Illidari.
Thank you.

Wasn't there also some human demon hunter? And one guy in Silithus?

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
He means that the Warcraft III "Demon Hunter" unit and all the NPCs based on it do not exist per Illidan. In that book, demon hunters first existed when Illidan made the Illidari.

It solves a plot hole based on the nature of the other demon hunters and how they started emulating Illidan, but gets rid of the backstories of the few demon hunter NPCs outside of Outland.
I'd really rather have them fix it by having Illidan train some people back in WotA times, instead of the other one. When it is WC3 vs WotA novels, I choose WC3, but then again, it didn't really have that much "canon" DHs, mostly just random map units.
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  #6958  
Old 05-02-2017, 09:58 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Illidan did train demon hunters before the Illidari:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Illysanna_Ravencrest
She's been one since the WotA.

Also, Loramus was always Illidari. The quest to get him back in Legion says so. http://www.wowhead.com/quest=42683/demonic-improvements
Still, he was one of our most powerful demon hunters.


I don't see a reason to assume the others weren't either.

Last edited by Asterisk; 05-02-2017 at 10:02 AM..
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  #6959  
Old 05-02-2017, 01:40 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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There both were and were not demon hunters outside of the Illidari, because retcons.

Illysanna Ravencrest is literally a unique case.

Her notes end with with "I go now to find [Illidan], to walk in his footsteps and learn what I can about our enemy."

She later shows up on Mardum.

This is followed by her dungeon journal saying she was captured shortly after the WotA, only to be freed in the VotW with the other demon hunters by coincidence.

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
And one guy in Silithus?
If you define "demon hunter" as a person with a blindfold and two blades, then a few more appear.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Vish_Kozus
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

Years.

Last edited by Revenant; 05-02-2017 at 01:47 PM..
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  #6960  
Old 05-02-2017, 02:54 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
There both were and were not demon hunters outside of the Illidari, because retcons
When has anything ever said Loramus, Feronas, and the others on Azeroth weren't Illidari? We know from characters like Rommath that the Illidari were sending people to Azeroth pre-BC. To claim it was a retcon, you'd need to provide something from before Legion saying these guys didn't serve Illidan.
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  #6961  
Old 05-02-2017, 04:17 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
When has anything ever said Loramus, Feronas, and the others on Azeroth weren't Illidari? We know from characters like Rommath that the Illidari were sending people to Azeroth pre-BC. To claim it was a retcon, you'd need to provide something from before Legion saying these guys didn't serve Illidan.
A retcon outright means finding something out about past events you didn't know before. Filling in the blanks of a character's backstory. Them being Illidari is a retcon; that doesn't make it a bad thing.

Some folks seem to be under the mistaken impression that a retcon is by definition something that's contrary to established lore and is therefore automatically negative. That's just not the case. The "con" is short for continuity, not contradiction.

Technically speaking, any time WoW, Chronicle, or any other canon source adds something new to established history that we didn't already know about, it qualifies as a retcon whether it actually conflicts with that established history or not.

Last edited by ARM3481; 05-02-2017 at 04:20 PM..
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  #6962  
Old 05-02-2017, 09:32 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Many of the Night Elf themes and designs are pretty cool and I enjoy them but the problem I have with them is that they lack major-minor lore characters with any sort of conflict and are just pushed along to progress the story. Their major characters are Malfurion, Tyrande, and Illidan. Maiev only exists to a foil to Illidan. Thisalee Crow and Fandral Staghelm have some conflict but really that's not enough as Staghelm is dead and has been gone for a long time. Everyone else gets corrupted or just turns stupid to make Illidan look good.

Basically, Night Elves have interesting ideas with terrible execution and Illidan/Malfurion/Tyrande soaking all of the spotlight.
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  #6963  
Old 05-02-2017, 10:00 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Jarod, Shandris and the Trueshot girl are the ones that should have their stories developed.
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  #6964  
Old 05-02-2017, 10:08 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Jarod, Shandris and the Trueshot girl are the ones that should have their stories developed.
I don't find Jarod terribly interesting either as he just foils Maiev.
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  #6965  
Old 05-02-2017, 10:57 PM
Whitrix Whitrix is offline

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I think Jarod has done enough. Was a secondary character in the WotA books, Blizzard added lore from that war for him in Legion and he led the defense of Nordrassil against Ragnaros in Cataclysm. By all means he's the only named night elf (alive) close to the triad by major lore events impact (I would say moreso than Maiev. Her importance is more on an individual level). Even in lore he's a legendary figure for mortals and respected by the Wild Gods.

Aside from Shandris there are really few night elves not already dead or tied to different factions as underlings.
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  #6966  
Old 05-02-2017, 11:23 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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What was the official name of Lordaeron's capital, before it got all Undercity? Was it Lordaeron, or Capital City?

The old in-game history of Warcraft said:

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Far to the north of Dalaran, the lords of Strom built a new city-state which they named Lordaeron. The entire continent would take its name from this city-state.
Do the Chronicles comment?
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  #6967  
Old 05-03-2017, 07:40 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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I don't think that's really a problem with night elves specifically. Every race has two or three characters that the race's entire narrative focuses on. It's just most evident for nelves right now because we're surrounded by them.
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  #6968  
Old 05-03-2017, 08:17 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
I don't think that's really a problem with night elves specifically. Every race has two or three characters that the race's entire narrative focuses on. It's just most evident for nelves right now because we're surrounded by them.
While the other races suffer from it as well it's worse with Night Elves who have few major-minor characters not tied to the big three. Orcs have many characters that are interesting without being tied to Thrall or Garrosh, for example, in ways that limit their characters. Two good characters are Taylor and Nazgrim as they were both directly important to the story, knew the main characters (such as Thrall/Varian) but were not beholdened to those characters as their means of development. Almost everything that happens to a Night Elf character is drawn from the big three and they don't make mistakes so growth is only negative for these characters.

Last edited by Mertico; 05-03-2017 at 08:21 AM..
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  #6969  
Old 05-03-2017, 10:14 AM
Whitrix Whitrix is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Do the Chronicles comment?
According to the map of Arathor City-States, the name of the capital city of Lordaeron was Lordaeron, named so as a stronghold by veteran soldiers from the Troll Wars in honor of Lordain, who was originally from the region. Eventually the city, kingdom and continent would also be named Lordaeron.
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  #6970  
Old 05-03-2017, 11:11 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitrix View Post
According to the map of Arathor City-States, the name of the capital city of Lordaeron was Lordaeron, named so as a stronghold by veteran soldiers from the Troll Wars in honor of Lordain, who was originally from the region. Eventually the city, kingdom and continent would also be named Lordaeron.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Lordain.

. . .

So there really is no Lord Aeron? Weird.

EDIT: [/joking]

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 05-03-2017 at 11:21 AM..
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  #6971  
Old 05-03-2017, 11:40 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Lordain.
Lordain's sister was called Mereldar by the way, and was among the first humans who had made contact with the Light, becoming one of its first priests and founding its principal religious sites in Lordaeron, named after her brother.

As for Capital City, Lordaeron was renamed so after the city-state turned a full scale kingdom.
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  #6972  
Old 05-03-2017, 01:00 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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And if someone didn't know, there is a lake Mereldar in the Eastweald.
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  #6973  
Old 05-03-2017, 02:43 PM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
While the other races suffer from it as well it's worse with Night Elves who have few major-minor characters not tied to the big three. Orcs have many characters that are interesting without being tied to Thrall or Garrosh, for example, in ways that limit their characters. Two good characters are Taylor and Nazgrim as they were both directly important to the story, knew the main characters (such as Thrall/Varian) but were not beholdened to those characters as their means of development. Almost everything that happens to a Night Elf character is drawn from the big three and they don't make mistakes so growth is only negative for these characters.
I think we should chat about Draenei.
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  #6974  
Old 05-03-2017, 02:45 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I wonder how many murlocs and naga the Twisting Nether houses, now that the Legion has demonized a few of their tribes.

Also, how many Demon Hunters would you say have their souls tethered to the Twisting Nether? Aren't those liabilities, since they can't protect themselves against the demons' corruptive influence whilst their bodies regenerate?
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  #6975  
Old 05-03-2017, 03:15 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Also, how many Demon Hunters would you say have their souls tethered to the Twisting Nether? Aren't those liabilities, since they can't protect themselves against the demons' corruptive influence whilst their bodies regenerate?
Considering what happened to Varedis, it sure seems like a pretty serious liability.
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