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Old 06-01-2011, 02:56 PM
Nostra Nostra is offline

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Default Different Arcanists

I've always operated under the assumption that in warcraft there was no distinction made between 'wizards' and 'sorcerors' that they all operated as arcanists and used fairily similar models to control and conjure their magic. I am proponent of letting people make up their own rituals and spells as long as they don't claim them to be the only way, but when told about sorcerors I felt a bit of opposition to the idea, their entirely 'intuitive' magic doesn't mesh well with my idea of how mages work in Warcraft, even though I freely admitt that the warcraft mage takes on aspects of both the wizard and the sorceror as they are represented in DnD.

Anyway, my point here is this - are there sorcerors and wizards in warcraft in the sense that they are different 'classes'? And is this a widespread belief in the warcraft 'lore community'?

And I know the sorceror actually was in the first version of the RPG, slightly edited to make it fit in Warcraft instead of DnD but like with most of those things it seems to have been removed when the newer versions of the RPG was published.


PS: This is a crosspost, and I'm a lazy bastard so I'll just paste it here.
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:04 PM
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Sorcerors and wizards and the like seem to be synonyms for "mage" as far as Blizzard cares. The RPG differentiated the classes but in the actual games there's really no distinction.
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:23 PM
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That's exactly how I view it, but I was told that it was a widespread notion among people that they were different things. Looking at the lore I can find however gives me the impression that the backing for it is rather weak, I mean the RPG class mechanics and the WC3 faction "Sorcerers' League" seems to be the bulk of the 'proof'.

Anyway, just sounding the waters and I remembered this place so I thought it'd be the perfect place to spread the question to, hehe.
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Old 06-01-2011, 04:05 PM
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When the first edition of the Warcraft RPG was published, it cribbed a lot from dungeons and dragons, mostly because the design docs the RPG writers were using came from WCIII and not WoW. D&D's laws regarding divine and arcane magic, and the different kinds of arcanists, were copied because the Warcraft world wasn't all that developed yet. By the time WoW came out, the game had evolved to the point where stealing stuff from D&D's mechanics wasn't needed.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:01 PM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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By the time WoW came out, the game had evolved to the point where stealing stuff from D&D's mechanics wasn't needed.
Oh, how I wish that were true. They still used the idiotic Vancian magic system and positive/negative energy distinction, neither of which really makes sense in this universe. I don't even think alignment is a good fit, and certainly not alignment restrictions (the Scarlet Crusade has plenty of evil paladins, for instance).
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:36 PM
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The different terms exist in the universe, and Dalaran may care, but it makes no difference to the player.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
Oh, how I wish that were true. They still used the idiotic Vancian magic system and positive/negative energy distinction, neither of which really makes sense in this universe. I don't even think alignment is a good fit, and certainly not alignment restrictions (the Scarlet Crusade has plenty of evil paladins, for instance).
"positive" and "negative" energy doesn't really factor into WoW as far as I know. There's light and shadow, but those are different things.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:19 PM
Sacredless Sacredless is offline

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For all that Knaak did wrong, he was quite consistent in calling Illidan a sorcerer specifically and Rhonin a wizard specifically. And he wrote nearly half of the novels. However, it should be noted that the Last Guardian doesn't seem to make the same distinction, while Jeff Grubb was closely involved with the development of the RPG.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:57 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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For me, the Sorcerer in the D&D sence is not present in Warcraft. The lore about it was not added to the WoW RPG. Plus, there are Sorcerers in organizations and with high charges in it:

- The Sorcerer's League of W3.

- The Elven Sorceress' (who didn't look so "free" or "independent" from magic organizations like the Kirin Tor or the Quel'Thalas academies).

- High Sorcerer Andromath, the leader of the Stormwind's Academy of Arcane Arts and Sciences.

The only... "true" sorcerer I can think of is Medivh. The dude was in coma most of his life and he wake up being a "demigod-like" spellweaver. But, you could say that all that was a consequence of Sargeras' posession.
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:28 PM
Farsider Farsider is offline

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Just going by wow alone, Wizard seems to be used to describe a rogue mage, or a mage who doesn't follow civil society. The Defias, Syndicate, and Scarlets have wizards in abundance, but a dearth of mages. The reverse is true of Dalaran, the Alliance, and Quel'thalas.

Sorcerer comes across as a particularly or naturally talented mage. Someone like Jaina, who picks up the intense studies necessary to become a mage with ease and speed, generally gets the moniker of sorcerer.

Apart from the occasional, super-extraordinary case, like Medivh or Azshara, we don't see real DnD sorcerers, who can figure out magic on their own and don't need study, in the warcraft world.
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:30 AM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsider View Post
Just going by wow alone, Wizard seems to be used to describe a rogue mage, or a mage who doesn't follow civil society. The Defias, Syndicate, and Scarlets have wizards in abundance, but a dearth of mages. The reverse is true of Dalaran, the Alliance, and Quel'thalas.

Sorcerer comes across as a particularly or naturally talented mage. Someone like Jaina, who picks up the intense studies necessary to become a mage with ease and speed, generally gets the moniker of sorcerer.

Apart from the occasional, super-extraordinary case, like Medivh or Azshara, we don't see real DnD sorcerers, who can figure out magic on their own and don't need study, in the warcraft world.
Are we sure that Azshara didnt study magic? I mean, being princess I suposse she was trained by her fellow Highborne.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
Are we sure that Azshara didnt study magic? I mean, being princess I suposse she was trained by her fellow Highborne.
Azshara was pretty old, wasn't she? I always kind of thought she was among some of the original night elves, to the point where there wasn't really a formalized study of arcane magic because they were the first to start doing it. The first night elf mages had to figure out everything from the ground up.
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