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  #51  
Old 04-11-2014, 07:53 AM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
Simple.

I'd work it by having the Shattering actually do damage to the planet instead of shitting new plantlife everywhere. Think Fallout style--there's barely enough resources and decent farmland for one faction, and nowhere near enough for two.

The Earthen Ring and Cenarion Circle could theoretically heal the planet, but it'd take time--far too much time before people start starving.

Thrall has to support the voices calling for a war out of sheer practicality--the factions are going to slaughter each other out of desperation with or without his consent, so he might as well make sure he gives the Horde his full support.

Cataclysm involves both sides slaughtering each other to a standstill, and the neutral factions take the opportunity to push their agendas while the Horde and Alliance are weakened.

Then the mists part, revealing a continent full of magically fertile farmland tended by a generation of people who have never known hardship...
My worry about this revolves around gameplay. Would be stuck with a destitute levelling world for all eternity after the expansion? Because that would piss me off, personally, even if the story was good.
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  #52  
Old 04-11-2014, 08:03 AM
Hellscream1 Hellscream1 is offline

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But the Horde lost even without Thrall leading.
Because of an internal split within the Horde.

Horde had victory in their grasp. Alliance can't say the same.
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  #53  
Old 04-11-2014, 08:06 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by Hellscream1 View Post
Because of an internal split within the Horde.

Horde had victory in their grasp. Alliance can't say the same.
Because of who leading them (Garrosh).

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  #54  
Old 04-11-2014, 08:25 AM
Hellscream1 Hellscream1 is offline

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Not because who was in charge.

It was because of the leaders under him.
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  #55  
Old 04-11-2014, 08:35 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Originally Posted by Hellscream1 View Post
Not because who was in charge.

It was because of the leaders under him.
I realize you have one large boner for garrosh, but stop white washing him please, its getting old now.

Garrosh was a tool, end of, I don't like whats happened to the orcs given there redemption story in wc3 was meant to paint them in a better situation, but Garrosh was just a cancerous lump that spread to the rest of the orcs, which lead to many orcs now dead.
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  #56  
Old 04-11-2014, 08:43 AM
Hellscream1 Hellscream1 is offline

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Garrosh was a tool, end of, I don't like whats happened to the orcs given there redemption story in wc3 was meant to paint them in a better situation, but Garrosh was just a cancerous lump that spread to the rest of the orcs, which lead to many orcs now dead.
You seem to have a WC3 boner.

WC2 was the better game and they should of followed the same formula.
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  #57  
Old 04-11-2014, 09:05 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Hellscream1 View Post
You seem to have a WC3 boner.

WC2 was the better game and they should of followed the same formula.
Horde lost that one too.

Thrall would have led a united Horde, which as of yet is undefeated. Garrosh lost because of his lack of regard for his allies.
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  #58  
Old 04-11-2014, 09:07 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Originally Posted by Hellscream1 View Post
You seem to have a WC3 boner.

WC2 was the better game and they should of followed the same formula.
Was it now? funny, cause according to this

http://www.statisticbrain.com/blizza...nt-statistics/

warcraft 2 sold 1 million copies and had a revenue of $50 million, While warcraft 3 - reign of chaos sold 3 million revenue $135 million, and wc3 the frozen throne sold 5 million units with revenue of $95 million.
So combined, WC3 together made a rough revenue of $230 million dollars, with both editions combined backing wc3 selling 7 million related games to itself.

wc2 didn't even sell as many units as wc- orcs and humans.

and saying it was better, well.. just as well your not in marketing.
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  #59  
Old 04-11-2014, 09:40 AM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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I realize you have one large boner for garrosh, but stop white washing him please, its getting old now.
He's not white-washing. He's only stating the truth. The rest of the Horde leaders were sissies and hypocrites.

Quote:
Garrosh was a tool, end of, I don't like whats happened to the orcs given there redemption story in wc3 was meant to paint them in a better situation, but Garrosh was just a cancerous lump that spread to the rest of the orcs, which lead to many orcs now dead.
Garrosh was raised in Nagrand by an old orc woman that had never been a part of the Horde. Garrosh was never exposed to Horde culture. He was never part of their crimes or their internments. His values were the values of the original orcs and ones that he learned as he struggled to survive Outland along with the rest of his people.

The truth is the Horde corrupted Garrosh. Thrall poisoned his mind with tales of how awesome his dad was. In order to gain acceptance, Garrosh championed the Horde ideals of strength and glory. He made enemies out of the Alliance, which the orcs despised for locking them up.
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  #60  
Old 04-11-2014, 09:54 AM
Kynrind Kynrind is offline

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Much of what you wrote is alright, better than Blizzard writing for sure, but the last part;

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Originally Posted by Korath View Post

For months, the situation seems deadlocked, until a terrible news reach the world : Tirion Fordring, Highlord of the Argent Crusade was assassinated, and the criminal was caught and killed. His name was Matthias Shaw, leader of the SI:7.
.. seems off unless it's a set up. The Alliance would have no reason to assassinate Tirion and if it was a forsaken, how did an undead get that close to him to kill him?

The Barrens conflict seems a little off too. Baines's homeland is right there. Wouldn't it be better for him to be leading the fight there with the bulk of the tauren strength and Garrosh be the one in Ashenvale near the source of orc strength? And if the Night elves are prepared for the fighting, why are they losing until the Draenei show up? If the Kaldorei are facing mainly just the orcs and hardly any trolls or goblins, wouldn't that put the Kaldorei on an even footing with the orcs in Ashenvale?
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  #61  
Old 04-11-2014, 10:55 AM
Korath Korath is offline

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Originally Posted by Kynrind View Post
.. seems off unless it's a set up. The Alliance would have no reason to assassinate Tirion and if it was a forsaken, how did an undead get that close to him to kill him?
Dun Dun Dun !

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Originally Posted by Kynrind View Post

The Barrens conflict seems a little off too. Baines's homeland is right there. Wouldn't it be better for him to be leading the fight there with the bulk of the tauren strength and Garrosh be the one in Ashenvale near the source of orc strength? And if the Night elves are prepared for the fighting, why are they losing until the Draenei show up? If the Kaldorei are facing mainly just the orcs and hardly any trolls or goblins, wouldn't that put the Kaldorei on an even footing with the orcs in Ashenvale?
The Night Elves are ready but they also have an army in feralas, which is treating next... and I want each race to have a role.

And here we go :

The demise of Tirion Fordring has a terrible effect, for his successor as the High Lord of the Argent Crusade swear to have Varian's head for such treachery and the Argents aren't the only neutrals leaning forces turning against the Alliance : the Steamweedle Cartel, believing that they will be the next target because they helped the Horde slightly more than the Alliance choose to throw their lot fully with the Horde, bringing with them the numbers which lacked in the Bilgewwater Cartel to create incredible warmachines for the Horde.

With those new weapons and vehicles, Baine is able to broke the defiance of the Alliance in Ashenvale, but some of the overzealous members of his army, first among them the Grimtotems and Warsongs use this new technology to tear down the forest. While the Alliance loses become horrendous, the very forest begin killing the Horde soldiers, when Malfurion Stormrage prove true to his name, enraged at the Horde defilement of the sacred woods of Ashenvale. With The first Archdruid and the High Priestess of Elune at the front lines the Alliance stop the Horde relentless advance at Maestra Post, but can't hope to drive the Horde of Ashenvale for now. Still, they are waiting reinforcement, for Shandris Faethermoon is leading her powerful army, half the Sentinels back from Feralas to the Barrens to help Theramore and the 7th Legion.

On this blood-soaked battlefield Garrosh is approached by a strange orc Shaman, claiming to have mastered the elements and who is ready to give him the power to crush his foes. The young Overlord agree to let the orc, called Nel'thar the Earth-Lord, works in his army and he begin to force the 7th Legion and Theramore army to retreat through the border between Dustwallow Marsh and the Barrens, but the timely coming of Ja´na and Aegwynn, leading the mages of Theramore grant the Alliance enough forces to totally stop the Horde's momentum. The war will still wage for months, and Garrosh will become increasingly distressed, for his mind is filled with nightmares of the Horde destroyed in a rage of fire.

Meanwhile in Lordaeron, the Horde, allied with the Argent Crusade and some parts of the Ebon Blade is driven out of Hilssbrad and forced to fight at the gate of the Greymane Wall, thanks to the the alliance air superiority, coming from months long negotiations before Tirion's assassination with the Wildhammer, who agreed to help the Alliance once more, despite the presence of the Dark Irons, whose War-Golems prove to be deadly against the Horde forces. Thanks to the Wildhammer, the Alliance can deploy its Sky-Vessels, and other marvels from the gnomish engineers, which are able to kill a lot of Horde soldiers from afar, despite and incredible resistance from the Horde. Daval Ashbury, now Varian right hand man claim that the informations concerning Tirion assassination are nothing but an Horde plot to demoralize the Alliance, and his convincing words manage to salvage the Alliance morale, while Varian is plagued by doubts and nightmares of things coming from the sea to devour his Kingdom and the world.

Despite being faced with the spectre of defeat, Thrall refuse to let Sylvanas use the Plague, for he claim that doing so would prove Varian and the Alliance true, but the orc who is probably the greatest shaman alive prove his worth be tearing down from the sky no less than four Sky-Vessels; Overlord Liandrin lead counter-attacks on the Alliance, with forces coming from all the Horde races, and won great victories thanks to her mastery of the Light and her bright mind which devise great tactics. Behind the front-line, a shadow war rages between Sylvanas Windrunner and her elite troops and the Worgens lead by Urrol The First Alpha and their fights could very well decide the destiny of the armies clashing south to them.

In Stranglethorn, Vol'jin has united all the remaining Jungle Trolls under his banner and begin to intensify his actions against an Alliance army whose moral is stronger than ever thanks to Archbishop Benedictus speeches and Marcus Jonathan acumen. The High Chieftain of the Trolls clashes several time with the Marshal, who was bestowed with the most holy relic of Stormwind : Ashkandi, Anduin Lothar own sword. despite his best effort, the very fringe of northern Stranglethorn is reconquered by the Alliance after bloody battles.

The time won by Benedictus and Marcus Jonathan allow Anduin to try to understand why his father would have ordered Mattias Shaw to assassinate Tirion Fordring. With a reluctant Vanessa van Cleef, now the de facto leader of the SI:7, the Prince of Stormwind venture deep below the city's streets and in its secret caves. there, he discover a coven of fanatics claiming to be part of the Twilight Hammer; the Prince and Vanessa are forced to flee the caves and they manage to save their lives, returning to the Keep where they hope to thwart the hammer plots.

Alas, the Twilight Hammer strike before they could act, launching a massive attack from the sewers right trough the Cathedral District were battle erupt. Anduin lead the last soldiers in Stormwind against them and manage to defeat the cultists, but treachery is revealed when Bishop Farthing mortally wound Benedictus before being captured. With his last breath, Benedictus give hope to the Alliance :

"
Even after the darkest of Night, the brightest of day shall come
"

Farthing is sent to the SI:7 dungeons to be interrogated by Vanessa. There he reveals that he was the one who twisted the mind of Matthias Shaw and sent him to kill Tirion, as he master ordered. Vanessa then torture farthing to force to reveal his Master identity. Before dying, the former Bishop finally spell the truth : his master is none other than Daval Ashbury, also known as Nel'thar the Earth-Lord, or even Deathwing the Destroyer. His master was the one who used guile and magic to little by little twist King Varian mood and temper, enhancing his rage and hatred toward the Horde to the point he declared war on the Horde, as the Aspect of Death wished. While Anduin and Vanessa efforts have forced the Twilight Hammer to reveal itself sooner than it was supposed, the demise of the mortal races is certain in the eyes of Farthing.

Meanwhile, below the Greymane Wall, the armies freeze when the gates are open, and that begin the Days of Twilight.

To be continued !

Last edited by Korath; 04-11-2014 at 03:29 PM..
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  #62  
Old 04-11-2014, 11:58 AM
Kynrind Kynrind is offline

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Eeehhh.. The Argents declaring war on the Alliance comes off as far too contrived and unbelievable. There literally isn't -any- reason for the Alliance to want Tirion dead. Unless the Alliance was demanding the Ashbringer for its own use (which would be unusual and odd since the Ashbringer isn't a trinket to be passed around like a toy). Plus there's a number of Argents who would/should question the oddity of Alliance assassinating Tirion. Especially since that would be -exactly- what the forsaken would like to happen. Something like that would smell to high heaven and it is hard for me to see that leading to the Argents actually declaring war on the Alliance.

In the Ashenvale scenario, you have the Night elves basically losing 85-90% of Ashenvale and the Horde having a pretty much overwhelming advantage to have pushed the prepared and ready Sentinel army so far back. Where would the rest of the Cenarion Circle be in this? They should be -furious- at what the horde is doing in Ashenvale. Night elves and tauren druids alike.
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  #63  
Old 04-11-2014, 11:59 AM
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I'd kill Tirion given the chance.
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  #64  
Old 04-11-2014, 12:07 PM
Korath Korath is offline

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Eeehhh.. The Argents declaring war on the Alliance comes off as far too contrived and unbelievable. There literally isn't -any- reason for the Alliance to want Tirion dead. Unless the Alliance was demanding the Ashbringer for its own use (which would be unusual and odd since the Ashbringer isn't a trinket to be passed around like a toy). Plus there's a number of Argents who would/should question the oddity of Alliance assassinating Tirion. Especially since that would be -exactly- what the forsaken would like to happen. Something like that would smell to high heaven and it is hard for me to see that leading to the Argents actually declaring war on the Alliance.

In the Ashenvale scenario, you have the Night elves basically losing 85-90% of Ashenvale and the Horde having a pretty much overwhelming advantage to have pushed the prepared and ready Sentinel army so far back. Where would the rest of the Cenarion Circle be in this? They should be -furious- at what the horde is doing in Ashenvale. Night elves and tauren druids alike.


Most of the actions were a plot of Deathwing... which as yet to fully unravel. Also, keep in mind that it should be a storyline interesting for both factions and on Kalimdor, the Horde is stronger than the Alliance.

And, despite my liking of the Night Elves, they can't old the line against the army they face in this scenario with a divided force (Sandris army has a big role to play during the Days of Twilight): Grimtotems, Taurens and Orcs helped by goblin tech are simply too much and Theramore with only the 7th Legions isn't enough either on Kalimdor.

Meanwhile, the Alliance is trouncing the Horde in the Eastern Kingdoms.

Last edited by Korath; 04-11-2014 at 03:25 PM..
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  #65  
Old 04-11-2014, 03:10 PM
Silveraith Silveraith is offline

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I'm enjoying your take on things Korath, nicely done.
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  #66  
Old 04-11-2014, 05:35 PM
Blayze Blayze is offline

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Would be stuck with a destitute levelling world for all eternity after the expansion?
Nah. A majority of the levelling experience could focus on the player escorting CC and/or ER NPCs around the world to slowly heal it, and with phasing they could see the positive impact their efforts are having on the world.

On Kalimdor, there'd be the Circle and the Ring themselves for the Night Elves (plus Draenei) and Horde respectively, whereas on the Eastern Kingdoms the Alliance have the Gilnean harvest witches and the Forsaken deal directly with the Argent Crusade as they try to re-plague land that's already been at least partially healed.
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:12 PM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Nah. A majority of the levelling experience could focus on the player escorting CC and/or ER NPCs around the world to slowly heal it, and with phasing they could see the positive impact their efforts are having on the world.

On Kalimdor, there'd be the Circle and the Ring themselves for the Night Elves (plus Draenei) and Horde respectively, whereas on the Eastern Kingdoms the Alliance have the Gilnean harvest witches and the Forsaken deal directly with the Argent Crusade as they try to re-plague land that's already been at least partially healed.
I'd rather it have lor'themar take a stronger role in such matters concerning the eastern kingdoms. I'd count him as having a more stable and trustworthy standard then sylvanas.
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:19 PM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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I'd rather it have lor'themar take a stronger role in such matters concerning the eastern kingdoms. I'd count him as having a more stable and trustworthy standard then sylvanas.
He only puts up a pretty front.
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  #69  
Old 04-11-2014, 06:43 PM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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He only puts up a pretty front.
Hey, he did good on isle of thunder, I feel it was one of the few decent character developments in mists that shouldn't be overlooked.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:02 PM
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Hey, he did good on isle of thunder, I feel it was one of the few decent character developments in mists that shouldn't be overlooked.
Jaina had to become an insane villain in order for him to look good. Before that he whined to Garrosh about Blood Elves being killed during a war and threatened to take his ball and go home while claiming that the Blood Elves were loyal and strong.

I don't mind villains that are comfortable with their villainy. I do hate villains that claim to be victims and righteous somehow. And I especially hate it when these villains actually develop a following of fans that actually believe it!
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:09 PM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Jaina had to become an insane villain in order for him to look good. Before that he whined to Garrosh about Blood Elves being killed during a war and threatened to take his ball and go home while claiming that the Blood Elves were loyal and strong.

I don't mind villains that are comfortable with their villainy. I do hate villains that claim to be victims and righteous somehow. And I especially hate it when these villains actually develop a following of fans that actually believe it!
Jaina, despite being insane and pretty much anything she once was being dead now, is not a villain, I don't like her as a character now, but its pretty obvious she hasn't crossed over to the villain standard yet.
I would have thought, given whats happened to characters like Arthas, Kael'thas, Illidan and now Garrosh, you'd have seen what a villain is and what isn't.

Also its ironic your trying to nail Jaina with the villain bat but trying to excuse Garrosh of what he's done as a character, and that everyone to just accept him for being that way like its just a mild misdemeanor.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:19 PM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Jaina, despite being insane and pretty much anything she once was being dead now, is not a villain, I don't like her as a character now, but its pretty obvious she hasn't crossed over to the villain standard yet.
...Is Sylvannas a villain?

Quote:
Also its ironic your trying to nail Jaina with the villain bat but trying to excuse Garrosh of what he's done as a character, and that everyone to just accept him for being that way like its just a mild misdemeanor.
Garrosh never attacked innocent people in a blind rage. As the soverign leader of a country, he chose to pursue a course of war against his enemies. He did what he thought was necessary.

Jaina on the other hand? She said one thing and did something else entirely. She didn't care who got hurt because of her irrational anger. The first convinent outlet for her grief and bitterness and she let it all out.
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  #73  
Old 04-11-2014, 07:28 PM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Sylvanas is as borderline bad guy as they come, but seeing how she hasn't crossed the line Garrosh has, as in sticking trolls, tauren, blood elves and forsaken on pikes on orgrimmars ramparts, she still holds firm in not having crossed over to absolute bad guy yet.

And enough with the pardoning of the tyrant, he's the bad guy, he doesn't get off, doesn't matter how much you liked him, he still commited the acts and was made to pay for them. All the dead orcs in orgrimmar, its because of him, the broken faith and trust within the horde itself, Garrosh.

Kael'thas fans accepted that kael'thas had crossed the line into villainhood. Night elf fans accepted this of Illidan. Human fanboys and girls accepted this of Arthas in the end. Think its about time to stop pretending.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:42 PM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Sylvanas is as borderline bad guy as they come, but seeing how she hasn't crossed the line Garrosh has, as in sticking trolls, tauren, blood elves and forsaken on pikes on orgrimmars ramparts, she still holds firm in not having crossed over to absolute bad guy yet.
...Yeah, because only the Horde can be victims.

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And enough with the pardoning of the tyrant, he's the bad guy, he doesn't get off, doesn't matter how much you liked him, he still commited the acts and was made to pay for them. All the dead orcs in orgrimmar, its because of him, the broken faith and trust within the horde itself, Garrosh.
No, it's because of the rebels hated him for no reason.

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Kael'thas fans accepted that kael'thas had crossed the line into villainhood. Night elf fans accepted this of Illidan. Human fanboys and girls accepted this of Arthas in the end. Think its about time to stop pretending.
Until I get an honest and frank discussion about Garrosh, his motives, and methods without it devolving into Horde victimization, he's not a villain.
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  #75  
Old 04-11-2014, 09:01 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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He only puts up a pretty front.
He's more loyal to the Horde than Sylvanas and (possibly) Gallywix. He's also a capable leader, who knows when it is the right time to go against an abusive leader.
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