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  #6701  
Old 09-09-2018, 11:31 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Took half an hour to get in but once i was participating the Warfront went over without a hitch.

Also without fun. It's... really boring. In the end i just ran with the NPCs and healed them. I wasn't expecting something great but i had hoped to at least get A LITTLE fun out of it.

Edit: did a second one with my other Horde 120. No problems this time, except i was amused by some people in raid chat throwing fits about people going off to kill rares. I don't think people know how hard it is to actually lose a Warfront. Given by what i've seen so far i suppose you'd need a full guild group working on it to manage that by literally doing nothing.
A 370 piece of gear seems a bit... high for it. I don't mind but it feels a little weird. It's not LFR where there's an actual danger of whiping. The enemy NPCs are idiots and a little underpowered. I'm finding myself wishing there was a Heroic Warfront. The one we have is... just boring. And takes forever.

Last edited by Commander Rotal; 09-09-2018 at 12:51 PM..
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  #6702  
Old 09-10-2018, 02:26 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Interesting that the botani are still around given how frequently the mag'har talk about having driven them to extinction (there's even one quote where they lament the botani being extinct because they 'tasted delicious when roasted.')

Also, its intriguing that they're fleeing towards the Barrens. With the WarfrontBarrens map being in the files since the start of the alpha, it looks like we might be seeing a very different update of the Barrens than what one might expect.
Maybe something bad happened to Rexxar's Ogre clan there hence his quote regarding Jaina.
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  #6703  
Old 09-10-2018, 11:59 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Kalimdor seems to be headed to become Draenor 2.0. Wild and dangerous.

It may get really interesting in a few years.

I really wonder if we could get a real high-level revamp for EK and Kalimdor. Both continents are being changed in interesting ways.
Well see, I have the theory that the Warcraft reboot began in WoD.

It was a Warcraft I & II reboot. Legion was a Warcraft III reboot. BfA is Vanilla done right, as they wanted it to be - full faction war. There's C'Thun reboot (N'Zoth), a Lich King 2.0, even naga. Funnily enough, even the allied races fit into this. Alliance have better humans, better dwarves, better blood elves and soon, probably, better gnomes (Junker). Horde have better orcs, better tauren, better trolls and better night elves - as they were supposed to originally.

Kalimdor becoming even more wild and dangerous would be making Kalimdor as it was supposed to be. It's a Kalimdor reboot.

PS: following this logic, the next expansion should be TBC 2.0 - that would probably be K'aresh, a broken alien world in the Twisting Nether.
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  #6704  
Old 09-11-2018, 10:44 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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  #6705  
Old 09-12-2018, 02:17 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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They're putting Warfronts behind an item level requirement. It's as if they WANT players to not play them.
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  #6706  
Old 09-12-2018, 06:37 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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They're putting Warfronts behind an item level requirement. It's as if they WANT players to not play them.
As I mentioned on twitter, it's unfortunately a solution to a real problem Blizzard had to address (they just picked the worst solution).

From the moment they came out, people have been pointing out that Warfronts give higher ilevel loot than world quests and heroic dungeons, and give the same ilevel loot as mythic dungeons and LFR at much faster rates. That means the majority of players will no longer do heroic dungeons, world quests, mythic dungeons or LFR because it's long been documented that players will always do whatever they find easiest to gear up and ignore other ways even if they find the other ways more fun.

Warfronts had essentially made more than 50% (all that's left are normal and above raid difficulties, high keystone mythic plus dungeons, and pvp) of all end game content useless and something had to be done.

I think a better solution would be to significantly nerf the item level of the gear Warfronts give. Maybe 325 to match heroics and world quests or 330 if they wanted slight upgrade. The guaranteed 370 item for completing the first warfront of the week could stay to keep better geared players doing them at least once a week to ensure queue time is low.

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 09-12-2018 at 06:43 AM..
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  #6707  
Old 09-12-2018, 07:00 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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I still haven't done a Warfront (only leveled my Alliance main so far). But the reports seem to confirm my suspicion when the feature was announced. I thought back then that it would be really hard to make it work.

IMO, Blizzard should:

- Make individual contribution scores for players.
- Tie ilvl from items gained to your contribution score.
- Make it a competition between participants, so there's ranking at the end, with the best gear awarded to the best scores.
- Make the Battlefront more like a "dynamic raid": you to stuff to unlock events. Events are like raid bosses, with random features, and your own skill in the fight (not dying, % of healing, % of damage and so on) increase your personal score. Because of the random nature, some fights could end up very hard, but the mechanics should be based less on group synergy and more on personal skill.

At least that way Warfronts would have incentive for people to get better and more efficient.
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  #6708  
Old 09-12-2018, 07:10 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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My thoughts on how Warfronts should work have leaned on Blizzard's initial comparison to them being like an RTS where you control one of the hero units. Right now the base building and resource gathering portion is over so quickly and goes by so fast due to how many players are contributing it doesn't really work. I have to ideas on how to fix that:

-Warfronts should take much longer to complete, at least an hour.

-Or, there should be far fewer players. Between five and ten.

Either method would help make the base building/resource gathering stages. If it was much longer, more time would by necessity need to be spent on those stages. If there were fewer players, each player would have to do more to build the base and get resources.

Obviously its too late for either of those changes, though perhaps they could introduce a heroic or mythic difficulty for them which could take such ideas into account.
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  #6709  
Old 09-12-2018, 09:34 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Yes, Blizzard dropped the ball on not having that requirement up on day one.

Yes, they dropped the ball on not communicating the Warfront rotation schedules.

But regarding entry requirement and gear rewards, this is launch patch. Having Warfronts give reg mythic gear without entry requirement is a catch-up mechanic, something I would expect on the second tier of raiding. It reminds me of doing legion invasions for gear on alts on 7.2.

The thought ends up becoming, 'why queue for normals and heroics or do world quests when you can simply do Warfronts'?
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  #6710  
Old 09-12-2018, 11:23 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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The ilvl curve is narrower than ever with the the latest item squish, so it feels almost inevitable that choosing this expansion to add yet another alternative means of gearing would cause these sorts of problems.

It also feels like not properly accounting for the squish is probably why crafting in this expansion is full of redundant ilvl 300 junk with identical stats despite wildly varying levels of ingredients, followed by a huge gap in tier quality seemingly to prevent it intruding upon the ilvl range of WQ's, heroic dungeons and LFR. So we have stuff that's made with just ore having the same exact stats as stuff made with multiple tiers of ore, elemental fluxes and expulsom.

It's a shame because I felt like I had a use for blacksmithing throughout Legion as a supplementary "bridge" for filling gaps along the way when the RNG was being stubborn; in BfA it really feels like an afterthought that only provides two worthwhile products whose requirements mean you're already running mythic dungeons and/or raids anyway, so at any time a drop can render them useless before you even finishing accumulating the BoP materials to craft them.
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  #6711  
Old 09-12-2018, 12:03 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Crafting feels very useful. I'm into the second week of raiding and I'm still wearing the 370 legplates from blacksmithing, whilst gathering resources for the 385 belt and pants.

It's worthy of note that scrapping the 355+ crafted items gives you the Hydrocore and Sanguicells back. 100% of it.

Crafting before BFA felt really weird. Whenever I went to craft stuff, it always felt surreal to get a supposedly valuable piece of gear in a matter of seconds, no effort put into the work of the equipment.

Crafting BoPs is something that takes a while to get all the expulsom and sanguicells required. You don't just buy the mats off the AH or mail them over from your gatherer alt.

When I'm finally able to craft the imbued piece, it truly feels epic. Rewarding. Something that had thought and work put onto it.

If this system was expanded into BoP weapons, and kept for future raiding tiers, it would be just great.
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  #6712  
Old 09-12-2018, 12:56 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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So, I heard this theory going around that Sylvanas is actually the avatar of Azeroth and has just forgotten. Any thoughts on if blizzard actually does that?
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  #6713  
Old 09-12-2018, 01:46 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Must be a Pyromancer idea. He always comes up with complete bullshit.
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  #6714  
Old 09-12-2018, 01:47 PM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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So, I heard this theory going around that Sylvanas is actually the avatar of Azeroth and has just forgotten. Any thoughts on if blizzard actually does that?
Sounds legit.
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  #6715  
Old 09-12-2018, 02:11 PM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Must be a Pyromancer idea. He always comes up with complete bullshit.
Na-ah, the dad of a friend of mine has a cousin who's housekeeper works at Blizzard and he says it's totally true.
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  #6716  
Old 09-12-2018, 02:31 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Na-ah, the dad of a friend of mine has a cousin who's housekeeper works at Blizzard and he says it's totally true.
Nah, there's a discussion on the official forums on how BfA is going to end satisfactorily for both factions. One person posted saying neither will be satisfied and said the above theory is likely how Blizzard would end it by pulling off a 'great twist'. It does sound like something they'd do.
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  #6717  
Old 09-12-2018, 03:30 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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It's impossible to end BfA in a "satisfying" way for both factions. But it's likely that it will end with each faction winning something big and losing something else big. How satisfying for each person will depend on how much they value whatever they'll win or lose.
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  #6718  
Old 09-12-2018, 03:52 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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It's impossible to end BfA in a "satisfying" way for both factions. But it's likely that it will end with each faction winning something big and losing something else big. How satisfying for each person will depend on how much they value whatever they'll win or lose.
My thoughts on the best possible realistic outcome would be a sort of cold war ceasefire. Some big event (coughOldGodscough) interrupts the war and afterwards the Alliance and Horde settle into a "we're enemies and fighting but not actively sending huge armies or attacking enemy cities" cold war-state akin to vanilla or maybe even a toned down version of the "not war" in Cata so that neither side has to feel like they lost and Blizzard can keep doing pvp stuff and side stories in later expansions without it feeling forced or contradicting everything else like Ashran in WoD.
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  #6719  
Old 09-12-2018, 04:53 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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A satisfying way to end the war:

- War mode.

Players who like faction conflict would turn war mode on and fight for their polarization (Horde or Alliance).

That would mark the dawning of an era of neutrality. Neutral groups, like, say, free companies, could be a thing recognized in-lore, just like the neutral factions. Which would make it possible for cross-faction grouping for activities such as dungeons and raids.

Characters with war mode active wouldn't be able to join a neutral/free company.

In lore terms, an invasion of the Light would be a great opportunity to both start an arc about the war of the light and the void and enact neutral grouping.
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  #6720  
Old 09-12-2018, 06:01 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
A satisfying way to end the war:

- War mode.

Players who like faction conflict would turn war mode on and fight for their polarization (Horde or Alliance).

That would mark the dawning of an era of neutrality. Neutral groups, like, say, free companies, could be a thing recognized in-lore, just like the neutral factions. Which would make it possible for cross-faction grouping for activities such as dungeons and raids.

Characters with war mode active wouldn't be able to join a neutral/free company.

In lore terms, an invasion of the Light would be a great opportunity to both start an arc about the war of the light and the void and enact neutral grouping.
You raise a good point here. However this expansion ends I don’t think War Mode is going anywhere.

I have other thoughts on how to satisfy all parties, but at the moment I lack the time to get into it.
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  #6721  
Old 09-12-2018, 06:21 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
My thoughts on the best possible realistic outcome would be a sort of cold war ceasefire. Some big event (coughOldGodscough) interrupts the war and afterwards the Alliance and Horde settle into a "we're enemies and fighting but not actively sending huge armies or attacking enemy cities" cold war-state akin to vanilla or maybe even a toned down version of the "not war" in Cata so that neither side has to feel like they lost and Blizzard can keep doing pvp stuff and side stories in later expansions without it feeling forced or contradicting everything else like Ashran in WoD.
I don't think stopping the war to fight the enemy of the week will be satisfying at all. The conflict itself needs a resolution. Denying it will make everyone pissed off. It's a cheap way out.
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  #6722  
Old 09-12-2018, 08:33 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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I don't think stopping the war to fight the enemy of the week will be satisfying at all. The conflict itself needs a resolution. Denying it will make everyone pissed off. It's a cheap way out.
What if at the end of the expansion, we kill N'zoth, which triggers Azeroth to awaken, killing everyone on her surface. You(the player)wake up in the shadowlands. You meet horde and alliance characters there who still hate each other, but since everyone's dead, it doesn't matter. You journey for a way to get back to the world of the living(or something).

Anyway, I was just proposing a scenario where both sides lose horribly. Since I can't foresee anyway this expac to satisfy both sides, just might as well destroy everything(and then have Azeroth magic up something that looks like the old world with some differences).

Last edited by Mungo; 09-12-2018 at 08:58 PM..
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  #6723  
Old 09-12-2018, 09:58 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
What if at the end of the expansion, we kill N'zoth, which triggers Azeroth to awaken, killing everyone on her surface. You(the player)wake up in the shadowlands. You meet horde and alliance characters there who still hate each other, but since everyone's dead, it doesn't matter. You journey for a way to get back to the world of the living(or something).

Anyway, I was just proposing a scenario where both sides lose horribly. Since I can't foresee anyway this expac to satisfy both sides, just might as well destroy everything(and then have Azeroth magic up something that looks like the old world with some differences).
I think they'll fully commit to give each faction one of the original continents.
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  #6724  
Old 09-12-2018, 11:21 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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So, according to Reddit BFA is the worst expansion ever and Ion Hazziskostas fails as game director
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  #6725  
Old 09-13-2018, 02:42 AM
Joeygiggles Joeygiggles is offline

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So, according to Reddit BFA is the worst expansion ever and Ion Hazziskostas fails as game director
Every expansion sucks and Blame X Dev here
Can never please everyone. I have my own concerns with BFA however this expansion is far from over so there is no way you can judge it based on launch
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