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  #8201  
Old 10-07-2019, 03:44 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Delaryn...? She's not with Sylvanas?

So, the raised night elves just switched sides and fought for their murderers on their own will?

That sucks major balls unless there's some explanation about mind-control somewhere in the plot...
According to the people on the SoL discord, there's more stuff being datamined where they say the had their minds manipulated and twisted similarly to the explanation they gave for the farmers in WPL back in Cata.

Also, Azshara on her true plan and how Sylvanas is an even greater threat than N'Zoth:

Azshara: We have a bargain, then. I will bring both fleets crashing to the ocean floor, and your champion will deliver the dagger to me.
Sylvanas: And in turn, you will have the key required to free the Old God from his bonds... and leave him vulnerable.
Azshara: You wound me, Warchief. After all, I am as dedicated to my master as you are to your subjects.
Sylvanas: Indeed. Just be certain that once you have what you need, you dispose of your guests. Let none of the "heroes" escape.
Azshara: I admire your ruthlessness, Windrunner. It seems our interests are aligned... at present.
Sylvanas: At present.
Azshara: Treacherous Banshee! Do you think I am blind to the darkness you seek to unleash?

8.3 dialogue:
You bore me. Obey my demands or suffer.
Your performance is tiresome. Fulfill my wishes or die.
Now go and do what you will. I tire of intermediaries and heralds. The true throne of power beckons, and I intend to claim it.

Keep that orb away from me!
Do not allow the Void to touch me!
Noooooo!
You will suffer for this!

In 8.3, she is being tortured by the Dark Inquisitor Xanesh boss. She now reveals to heroes her master plan, of wanting to use the Blade of the Black Empire to stab N'Zoth after freeing him.
Submit, Azshara! Beg forgiveness for your failure! Your betrayal!
Insolence only prolongs your agony! You will break, or I will carve out your defiant tongue!
Impudent underling! You will... address me... as queen!
More likely, Xanesh... Azeroth's champions... will be the ones... to silence you.
Release me! Only I possess the means of defeating N'Zoth!
Mind your tone, whelpling. A queen keeps her promises. Listen closely, as I will only say this once.
For all his bluster, N'Zoth was ever the weakest of his kin. One vestige of their power yet remains that can be turned against him.
I would have driven this blade into his foul heart myself... had you not disrupted my plans.
No matter. Xal'atath is yours, mortals. Strike true. Should your first blow fail, you will not survive to attempt another.


Tyrande and Anduin on peace with the Horde, plus who the new Warchief is (sort of):

Anduin: The armistice is signed. At long last, the Fourth War is over.
Tyrande: No. Not while the Black Moon still cries out for vengeance. Not until the Horde has answered for its treachery.
Anduin: Further bloodshed will not bring back the fallen. We must renew our hope and forge a future for those who survived.
Tyrande: And when the next warchief musters an army, will hope save you if it is Stormwind that burns?
Anduin: I know it's difficult to trust, but there are signs of change within the Horde. In place of a warchief, there is now a council led by Baine, Thrall, and the others. I believe they can--
Tyrande: Your faith is naive, lion son. I will sign no treaty unless it is written in the Banshee's blood!
Anduin: Tyrande!
Genn: There is truth in her words, Anduin. Peace may be on the table today, but soon enough the Horde will sound their drums and march for war.
Genn: When that day comes, no scrap of parchment will hold them back.
Anduin: The path to peace will not be easy, and not all will choose to walk it. But this is the only way to build a better future. I believe it will work, Genn.
Shandris: You spoke harshly to King Anduin, Tyrande. The kaldorei can ill afford to shun the Alliance. They have provided aid and comfort to us in these dark times.
Tyrande: The young king is foolish to trust our enemies. Harsh words should be the least of his fears.
Shandris: The Banshee Queen no longer leads the Horde. Those who do seem more inclined toward peace than war.
Tyrande: If the wolf is rabid, it matters not who rides it. Sooner or later, the beast will bare its fangs.
Shandris: You are dearest to my heart, Tyrande. I beg you, let go of the Black Moon's rage and embrace the mother's light once again. I could not bear to lose you to darkness.
Tyrande: Know this. My hunger for vengeance will not be sated so long as Sylvanas Windrunner remains free--and until I know why Elune abandoned her children.
Shandris: Tyrande! Do not say such--
Tyrande: I will tarry no longer in this city of men. Let us leave for the boughs of Nordrassil.
Tyrande: From there we will dispatch the Sentinels to every corner of Azeroth. Let no one rest until the Banshee is found!

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 10-07-2019 at 03:49 PM..
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  #8202  
Old 10-07-2019, 04:58 PM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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queen calia and derek king consort of lordaeron
Overlord Gey'arah: The Mag'har have never known life without a warchief. It will be hard for them--and for me. But it seems your people have lost a queen as well.
Lilian Voss: The Forsaken are torn by turmoil and doubt. Many still love Sylvanas, even after all she has done. Others believe their home remains in the Horde.
Overlord Geya'rah: And you? Where do your loyalties lie?
Lilian Voss:Where they always have--with the Forsaken. To be raised into undeath is to be forever haunted by the ghosts of your past. A caring hand can offer comfort through the pain.
Overlord Geya'rah: I see no crown upon your head. Are you the new queen they seek?
Lilian Voss:No. I'll speak on my people's behalf, but I won't rule them. There is another I believe will prove better suited to that task... when the time is right.
Overlord Geya'rah: The love you hold for your people burns as bright as my own for the Mag'har. I wish you good fortune, Lilian Voss.
Calia: Thank you for coming, Jaina. I wanted you both to know... I have decided to leave Kul Tiras.
Jaina: You're leaving? Why?
Calia: I received a letter from Lilian Voss of the Forsaken. She asks for my help.
Calia: The Forsaken lost their queen. For many, it's the second time they've been abandoned. They feel adrift. Alone.
Jaina: But Calia, none of that is your--
Calia: They are my people, Jaina. My father gave everything for Lordaeron. I wish to honor him, and to prove worthy of the name I was born with. The name Menethil.
Derek: Right, then. So when do we leave?
Calia: I cannot ask you to come with me, Derek. Kul Tiras is your home.
Derek: I am a Proudmoore, and I always will be. But I've changed, and it's time to see where the tides will take me.
Jaina: I understand, though I will miss you both. Come. Mother and Tandred would never forgive me if I let you leave without a proper farewell.
Lilian: My lady. Thank you for agreeing to meet with me. I am Lilian Voss.
Calia: Miss Voss. I once listened to your father's sermons. That was... long ago. Forgive me, I haven't introduced my companion. This is Lord Derek Proudmoore.
Lilian: Lord Proudmoore. You should know that I played a part in the events that led to your undeath. I... regret much of what has happened.
Lilian: I didn't know... at first. Once I did, I should have stopped it. Baine Bloodhoof showed the courage I lacked. If I could change the past, I would.
Calia: You didn't reach out to offer apologies. Why did you ask us here?
Lilian: This champion witnessed your kindness toward Lord Proudmoore. How you helped him through his torment. Sadly, he is not the only one who suffered in the war.
Calia: Night elf sentinels? Why are you... By the Light!
Lilian: Many fell at Teldrassil. Some were raised into rage and darkness, turned against their own people. They, too, have been abandoned.
Derek: Calia, I know the pain they suffer. The hopelessness. You must do something for them.
Calia: We will, Derek. Together.

Calia: Greetings. I am Calia Menethil of Lordaeron. I will do my best to help you. Please, come with us.
Lilian: That meeting went exactly as I'd hoped. I believe Calia Menethil can help many who are lost.
Lilian: We will speak again soon. There is more work to be done.
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  #8203  
Old 10-07-2019, 08:07 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Default Patch 8.3: Visions of N'zoth


























Writeup by chaud at MMO-C:

Classic
  • Dire Maul is coming to World of Warcraft Classic on October 15/16th.
  • The Honor System and World Bosses are still coming with Phase 2.


Battle for Azeroth
  • Patch 8.3 - Visions of N'Zoth is coming next.
  • For the first time, we're going to see an Old God, unleashed in their full might and dark fury.
  • Ny'alotha is the domain of the Old Gods and their minions.
  • Ny'alotha is all around us, on the other side of a thin veil. N'Zoth is tearing that veil and bringing horrible nightmares and dark visions in which the forces of the Old God are in our world.
  • Titan facilities across Azeroth are the key to containing, controlling, and understanding the power of N'Zoth.
  • The minions of N'Zoth are assaulting the Titan facilities. We will have to venture through rifts into the world that N'Zoth's minions inhabit.
  • New Feature - Assaults
  • When active, a zone will be overcome with N'Zoth's forces. There will also be treasures and puzzles.
  • The team took everything they learned from previous assault features and recent major zones.
  • Uldum will come under regular assault by minions of N'Zoth.
  • The Vale of Eternal Blossoms - Corrupted again, only when N'Zoth is assaulting it.
  • New Feature - Horrific Visions
  • 1-5 player content, centered around Orgrimmar and Stormwind, that show us an alternate reality of what might come to pass if we don't succeed.
  • When you first enter a Horrific Vision, you aren't going to make it very far. Your mind will succumb to N'zoth's relentless assault.
  • You'll begin to experience cosmetic and serious mechanic hindrances as your sanity is drained by being in the vision.
  • You will retreat, taking with you the things that you've learned along the way.
  • You'll be working with Wrathion to create a legendary cloak. Initially it will provide some shield against N'zoth's attacks.
  • The cloaks will allow you to venture further into the visions, earning more rewards and unlocking more of the mystery behind his power.
  • The cloak will also come in handy when you face off against N'zoth further down the road.
  • You'll bring fragments out of the vision to allow Magni to research, giving you new tools for the battle.
  • Titanic Research will help you in future visits to the Visions.
  • Ever since the Mage Tower, the team has been looking for a solo progression experience that provides challenge.
  • You can do this entirely solo or bring friends with you. The experience will scale from 1-5 players, regardless of your role.
  • New Raid - Ny'alotha, The Waking City
  • 12 boss raid that showcases the full splendor of the Black Empire.
  • N'zoth is the final boss.
  • New levels for the Heart of Azeroth, bringing passive benefits and a new essence slot.
  • The new essence slot can be filled with new essences from Patch 8.3 content.
  • Assaults on the Titan facilities could affect Titanforging, with a new system that is a little bit more twisted and corrupt.
  • New Allied Races - Vulpera and Mechagnomes
  • Vulpera requires completion of the Vol'dun quests and Exalted with the Voldunai.
  • Mechagnomes require Exalted with Mechagon.
  • New Heritage Armor - Goblin and Worgen
  • Auction House Redesign - Faster and more performant, no single stacks.
  • People can now purchase portions of a stack
  • You can favorite items and create a shopping list for yourself.
  • No need to undercut anymore, as auctions posted later (at the same price) are sold first.
  • Heroic Darkshore Warfront
  • New PvP season
  • New Mythic Keystone Affix - Corrupted: Black Empire Obelisks that you can interact with. Pulls you into an alternate world, defeat the Lieutenant and return to reality wherever you are standing when he is defeated. This allows you to do some interesting skips. If you don't take care of the obelisks, the minions will come find you at the final boss of the dungeon.


As the war to safeguard Azeroth’s future escalates, two new playable Allied Races will be ready to take up arms with the Horde and the Alliance—vulpera and mechagnomes—in the next content update.

Vulpera
Vulpera are cunning nomadic scavengers capable of turning what they find into opportunities to thrive.


Clever and resourceful, the vulpera of Vol’dun have survived amidst the sands for generations. Eager to join the ranks of the Horde, their caravans have departed from the dunes in search of adventure.

The serpentine sethrak have taken to subjugating anyone they can as slaves, and the vulpera are an easy target for their machinations. If you’ve taken steps to liberate the vulpera from these overseers, they’ll join the Horde on the battlefield.

Available Classes: Hunter, Mage, Monk, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, and Warrior

Racial Traits:

Bag of Tricks: Use a trick on an enemy to damage them, or an ally to heal them.
Rummage Your Bag: Change the contents of your Bag of Tricks. Now where did you put that… ?
Make Camp: Set your camp location outdoors.
Return to Camp: Teleport back to your camp location.
Nose for Trouble: Take less damage from the first strike inflicted by an enemy.
Vulpera Survival Kit: Find extra goods when you loot humanoids.
Fire Resistance: Take less damage from fire.


Racial abilities, effects, and icons are subject to change.

TO UNLOCK THIS ALLIED RACE:

Reach Exalted with Vuldunai
Earn Achievement Secrets in the Sands
Complete the following Vol’dun storylines: “Unlikely Allies,” “The Warguard’s Fate,” “The Three Keepers,” “Atul’Aman,” “Dangers in the Desert,” “A City of Secrets,” and “Storming the Spire.”


When the next content update goes live, players who’ve completed the requirements will gain access to a quest chain to recruit the vulpera as an Allied Race. Once you complete the chain, you’ll receive the achievement Allied Races: Vulpera and can create a new vulpera on the character selection screen. You’ll also unlock a new mount—the Caravan Hyena—for your collection at character creation, which all of your Horde characters can ride.

NEW HERITAGE ARMOR
Leveling your new vulpera from 20 to 120 will earn a cosmetic Heritage Armor set that is unique to this new Allied Race.

Mechagnomes
Scrappy and resourceful, mechagnomes have improved their fleshy forms with top-notch prosthetics.


Though they once sought to mechanize themselves completely, the mechagnomes now seek a balance between flesh and steel. Emerging from years of isolation on Mechagon, they bring both ingenuity and aptitude to the Alliance.

They left Gnomeregan to construct a metal metropolis, Mechagon. However, their once wise and ambitious ruler King Mechagon now ruthlessly rules over them with an iron fist.

Work together with the Rustbolt Resistance to overthrow their tyrant so these mechanical mavericks will join the Alliance.

Available Classes: Hunter, Mage, Monk, Priest, Rogue, Warlock, and Warrior

Racial Traits:

Re-Arm: Automatically heal yourself when your health drops to a low life total.
Combat Analysis: Get stronger as you fight the same enemy.
Hyper Organic Light Originator: Summon decoys of yourself to distract foes.
Skeleton Pinkie: Open locked chests.
Mastercraft: Function as a personal set of crafting tools for professions.


Racial abilities, effects, and icons are subject to change.

TO UNLOCK THIS ALLIED RACE:

Reach Exalted with the Rustbolt Resistance
Earn Achievement The Mechagonian Threat
Complete the following Mechagon Island quests: “The Legend of Mechagon,” “A Quick Ear Hustle,” “This is Our Vault Now,” “Let’s Get It Started,” “You Must be This Height,” “Machinations for Mechagon,” “Only the Best Will Do,” “To Mechagon!,” “Prospectus Bay,” “We Come in Peace…and Profit,” “The Resistance Needs YOU!,” “Rescuing the Resistance,” “My Father’s Armies,” “We Can Fix It,” “Drill Rig Construction,” “Send My Father a Message,” “Welcome to the Resistance,” “Operation: Mechagon – The Mechorginator.”


When the next content update goes live, players who’ve completed the requirements will gain access to a quest chain to recruit the mechagnomes as an Allied Race. Once you complete the chain, you’ll receive the achievement Allied Races: Mechagnomes and can create a new mechagnome on the character selection screen. You’ll also unlock a new mount—the Mechagon Mechanostrider—for your collection at character creation, which all of your Alliance characters can ride.

NEW HERITAGE ARMOR
Leveling your new mechagnome from 20 to 120 will earn a cosmetic Heritage Armor set that is unique to this new Allied Race.
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Last edited by Krainz; 10-07-2019 at 08:17 PM..
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  #8204  
Old 10-07-2019, 10:29 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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I see people already complaining, but Calia and Darek leading the Forsaken might have some interesting developments.

Vulpera and Mek-Gnomes becoming Allied Races has been a no-brainer for months. (Mek-Gnomes scenario will 100%ly feature Gelbin getin tranformed into one to be "healed" from his BoD injuries.)

oh and @

Azshara wanting to use the Weifu Blade to imprison N'Zoth:

Funny, some people actually speculated Sylvanas doing it. But using the Blade during a Raid encounter actually makes sense.

Azshara will most likely survive also the events of this raid. Blizzard seeming doesn't want to waste her. She imo either escapes or gets imprisoned by Alliance/Horde to escape later.


By the way:

Any idea.... who Shaw's poential love interest could be?

Also, Blizzard is seemingly shipping Lorthemar and Thalyssra.

Last edited by Vineyard; 10-07-2019 at 10:41 PM..
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  #8205  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:06 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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After so much tease around Lordaeron, I'm looking forward to just being done with the tentacle plot thread.
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  #8206  
Old 10-08-2019, 04:47 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Calia Menethil The new Forsaken Leader - Patch 8.3 Questline (Horde)
Calia Menethil The new Forsaken Leader - Patch 8.3 Questline (Alliance)

Delaryn is one of the people who meets with Calia! I guess it will be the new military leader of the forsaken instead of nathanos
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  #8207  
Old 10-08-2019, 05:43 AM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
After so much tease around Lordaeron, I'm looking forward to just being done with the tentacle plot thread.
I feel the cosmic plots way too shallow and uninteresting. I like when we learn comic stuff that makes mortals feel small, but whenever these threats surface they feel rushed and are easily done with. I think mortal stuff works way better as actual antagonists and plot-drivers.
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  #8208  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:58 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Rhllor View Post
Calia Menethil The new Forsaken Leader - Patch 8.3 Questline (Horde)


Delaryn is one of the people who meets with Calia! I guess it will be the new military leader of the forsaken instead of nathanos


To hell with Calia and Delaryn.

Who is this for?
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  #8209  
Old 10-08-2019, 12:32 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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We were all happy BfA was on its death bed, but it still had one last nasty surprise in store for us.
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  #8210  
Old 10-09-2019, 05:54 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
We were all happy BfA was on its death bed, but it still had one last nasty surprise in store for us.
... one last nasty surprise in store for us... so far.
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:00 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Alliance Flag

The corpse will fill up with gas and explode in our face, showering us in gore. Or so they say.

To be completely honest, I think there's still a chance that the Forsaken won't be saddled with a leader they do not want and that the Alliance will not be losing two characters that they would rather keep. I could see Calia and Derek simply going on a pilgrimage to heal the undead, without actually joining the Horde. If you think about it, what exactly would leading the Forsaken accomplish that they can't already accomplish by simply talking with them? They set out to heal, not to lead and provide all the answers.

But I simply don't have it in me to naively go into 9.0 with rose coloured glasses. Not anymore.

(I sure hope that Tyrande will just get Jaina'd, rather than something even worse.)
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  #8212  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Rhllor View Post
Calia Menethil The new Forsaken Leader - Patch 8.3 Questline (Horde)
I can't decide whether this is pro-Lordaeron/Fojar or anti-Lordaeron/Fojar. I guess we'll tell based upon whether Calia redesigns the lamp posts.
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  #8213  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:27 PM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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I suppose this is a hint that we are mostly abandoning the factions. Calia and Derek aren't joining the Horde. They are leading the Forsaken. Who are no longer strictly Horde, because no one will be soon.
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:33 PM
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I suppose this is a hint that we are mostly abandoning the factions. Calia and Derek aren't joining the Horde. They are leading the Forsaken. Who are no longer strictly Horde, because no one will be soon.
Either that or their efforts will result in the Forsaken fracturing, giving us an Alliance 9.0 Allied Race. Some might find that idea absurd, but how many would imagine the Nightborne strictly on the Horde or the Lightforged strictly on the Alliance before 8.0's announcement?
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:22 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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If we were abandoning the factions then it wouldn't make much sense to make Vulpera talk about them in their silly emotes.
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:41 PM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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More of an unofficial fracturing.

Would be nice to see Forsaken and Night Elves being more independent of their official factions.
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  #8217  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:44 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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If we were abandoning the factions then it wouldn't make much sense to make Vulpera talk about them in their silly emotes.
Mostly is the key word. We are never going to see the factions go completely away, but we can easily see some unofficial fracturing lorewise accompanied by some changes to the system.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:53 PM
Ardeiute Ardeiute is offline

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Saw an idea for the proposal of the doing away with factions, that being the reason they added faction symbols next to character names, that some races will be able to join either faction.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:05 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
I can't decide whether this is pro-Lordaeron/Fojar or anti-Lordaeron/Fojar. I guess we'll tell based upon whether Calia redesigns the lamp posts.
He had a huge meltdown in the SoL discord, was kinda funny to watch. Because first he was very happy about Calia and even goody lightforged undead and the Alliance taking back the Lordaeron story because this is what he was sure is coming. Ofc he was wrecked when Blizzard's impressive incompetence brought him back down.

Though he is right in saying that just about no one is happy about this. I wanted a new direction of the Forsaken but lead by someone from within, like Belmont or Lydon, though I would even prefer that anime garbage called Voss to Calia. But sadly Blizz can't do subtle, so a slow movement of Forsaken from their Sylvanas cult into something more moderate and interesting will not be happening, Calia might just become their next racial blackhole but I guess anything is better than Sylvanas so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardeiute View Post
Saw an idea for the proposal of the doing away with factions, that being the reason they added faction symbols next to character names, that some races will be able to join either faction.
Remember just about anytime people got excited for massive changes in WoW and how that went? Scourge third faction? Alliance taking Orgrimmar in MoP? World update in BfA to reflect the war? And I am sure there are more.

The faction split is just too deep in game design and game spirit and advertising to go away. So I am very sure it won't happen, but we will see.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:11 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Originally Posted by Xarthat View Post
I suppose this is a hint that we are mostly abandoning the factions. Calia and Derek aren't joining the Horde. They are leading the Forsaken. Who are no longer strictly Horde, because no one will be soon.
this.

is what I think will happen the factions will dissolve at the lore and pve level
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:36 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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When do the armor sets named after next expansion's continents start showing up? Arem't they about due by now?
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  #8222  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:05 AM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
When do the armor sets named after next expansion's continents start showing up? Arem't they about due by now?
That was unique to Legion/BfA.

From memory, MoP had an “Iron Horde” texture in the files. Also, two store mounts hinted at WoD: the fey dragon and the iron skyreaver. (Grinning Reaver also, but that one was revealed after WoD).

WoD had a “Cloak of Suramar” in Kazzak’s loot drops. There was also another store mount, the Mysthic Runesaber. Plus, Gul’dan surviving in thend cinematic, released way before Legion’s reveal.

Legion had the kul tirans and zandalari in Azsuna, then later the datamined armor pieces and icons. Later, we had the allied races found in the races database.

I think the latest store mounts this time (vulpine familiar and dream dragon) may be hints of next expansion’s mobs, but not necessarily its main theme.
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  #8223  
Old 10-10-2019, 12:03 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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The issue with Calia is that Blizzard wants us to believe that her being undead means that she can not only understand the mindset of the Forsaken but also free them of their doubts and darker urges, but what exactly makes her qualified to do so?

Yes, she is undead like them, but not only the manner in which they were raise but also the kind of undead they are couldn't be more different. They were forcibly raised, mind-controlled and forced to kill their loved ones, and are tainted by the very nature of the spells used to re-animate their corpses. She was raised by her own volition, suffers no negative repercussions, and the only thing she has in common with them besides being undead is that she is a survivor of the Scourge and Lordaeronian.

So how is she going to achieve it? Supposedly she gives people hope. Of what? That the undead can be accepted by the living? That being undead does not mean that you have to be a monster? So are the Forsaken and Death Knights now supposed to be oblivious to the fact that she's the way she is due to not being raised via shadow magic? That no matter how hard they try, they will never not have to fight against their urges and will always be somewhat monstrous, while she has to put in no effort? Do most of the Forsaken even want to give up their way of life?

The Forsaken complying to Calia's lofty standards or Calia being brought down to theirs can't work for long. Not unless some of the older lore is retconned. And even if either of these worked without retcons, do we want saintly Forsaken? Would they have any reason to refrain from re-joining the Alliance? And if Calia becomes tainted by Blizzard's odd fixation of turning the Horde (and especially the Forsaken) evil, what exactly was the point of this exercise? To prove that anyone can fall from grace if they associate with the Horde?
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  #8224  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:10 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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The issue with Calia is that Blizzard wants us to believe that her being undead means that she can not only understand the mindset of the Forsaken but also free them of their doubts and darker urges, but what exactly makes her qualified to do so?
The main problem is Calia is such a nothing character. She's a name. She hasn't been present for what... 7 expansions of storytelling? It's a shallow twist. I dunno if it was because they wanted to move on from Sylvanas (which is probably a mistake since Sylvanas is probably one of the most omni-present characters in WoW lore) and wanted a noteworthy leader to replace her.

This story is so off the rails I don't even know what a GOOD way to handle it would have been.
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  #8225  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:29 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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What i've noticed is during Cataclysm analytical lore fans were ragging about how unrealistic the horde numbers were compared to aliance. But now i don't see anyone talking about it. Everyone seems to accept that the horde and alliance start BFA just as strong. Is their some truth most now just look at it like strongholds/land = might?
Meh, the Alliance was on record for having lost 50,000 soldiers during the war in Northrend. At the time, we didn't really know how significant those numbers were but given that the Alliance held a sizable vigil for the fallen in Stormwind, it's safe to assume that 50,000 wasn't a negligible number.

Things have just spiraled out of control since then since Blizzard determined that the numbers and populations would ebb and flow as the story needed.
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