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  #10951  
Old 08-21-2017, 07:28 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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All of this controversy and violence over inanimate statues and flags just proves how toxic identity-politics has become. By (some) on the left you have an ugly alliance between postmodern relativism and some rather thuggish and reactionary protest movements; then by others on the right there's this paranoid and jingoistic embrace of white nationalism. Adorning one's self with the arbitrary symbols and romanticized histories of whatever particular tribe that makes you feel proud - pernicious nonsense, all of it.

But in the same way that I would abhor vandalism, on principle I do not wish to see statues defaced or destroyed to placate an angry mob. Nor do I believe it is politically or psychologically healthy to have a worshipful sentimentalism for nationalist icons.
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  #10952  
Old 08-21-2017, 07:32 PM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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All of this controversy and violence over inanimate statues and flags just proves how toxic identity-politics has become. By (some) on the left you have an ugly alliance between postmodern relativism and some rather thuggish and reactionary protest movements; then by others on the right there's this paranoid and jingoistic embrace of white nationalism. Adorning one's self with the arbitrary symbols and romanticized histories of whatever particular tribe that makes you feel proud - pernicious nonsense, all of it.

But in the same way that I would abhor vandalism, on principle I do not wish to see statues defaced or destroyed to placate an angry mob. Nor do I believe it is politically or psychologically healthy to have a worshipful sentimentalism for nationalist icons.
It's not difficult to separate the statues built and placed during the Jim Crow era with those placed during our reconciliation period. If councils and communities vote to remove the ones placed during the former I doubt there will be much legitimate concern. It's the older ones that have a good argument to be left alone.
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  #10953  
Old 08-21-2017, 07:49 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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They should vote to remove them or amend them in some way I think. The vandalism is just wrong in every way.

I just remember this in France:
http://www.dday.center/cemetery_de_lacambe.html



It didn't glorify the Nazis in anyway. It was just sad. Some of the grunts didn't really have a choice.
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  #10954  
Old 08-21-2017, 08:29 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Movie. "Blame Canada!" is from the movie.
Fun fact: I've never watched South Park, the show, South Park, the movie, or played either of the South Park games.
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  #10955  
Old 08-22-2017, 12:06 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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The guy who recorded the most popular video of the recent neonazi terrorist attack submitted an article about how he has been harassed and threatened since then and the ridiculous right-wing conspiracy theories swirling around him from state-sponsored media figures like Alex Jones and Sean Hannity and even a right-wing House rep.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...esville-215514
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  #10956  
Old 08-22-2017, 12:24 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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It didn't glorify the Nazis in anyway. It was just sad. Some of the grunts didn't really have a choice.
Thing is with those memorials is that the statues erected there tend not to depict Hitler all glorified, looking fabulous on horseback, but simply honour the fallen in some way.

This Confederate memorial and cemetary, that Ragny sent me the other day, is a perfect example of how to respectfully honour the ones who fought, without giving into the cult of personality worship regarding military leaders.

"Not for fame or reward -
Not for place or for rank -
Not lured by ambition -
Or goaded by necessity -
But in simple -
Obedience to duty -
As they understood it
These men suffered all -
Sacrificed All -
Dared all - And Died -"
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  #10957  
Old 08-22-2017, 01:01 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Thing is with those memorials is that the statues erected there tend not to depict Hitler all glorified, looking fabulous on horseback, but simply honour the fallen in some way.

This Confederate memorial and cemetary, that Ragny sent me the other day, is a perfect example of how to respectfully honour the ones who fought, without giving into the cult of personality worship regarding military leaders.

"Not for fame or reward -
Not for place or for rank -
Not lured by ambition -
Or goaded by necessity -
But in simple -
Obedience to duty -
As they understood it
These men suffered all -
Sacrificed All -
Dared all - And Died -"
There's a lot of statues that exist for the same purpose that one does, too. Problem is there's a bunch of other that were built a lot later in the Civil Rights era. If some of these local city council's had actual courage they would help the public and angry mobs distinguish between the two. Unfortunately that's in short supply.

Also worth noting that at the time, General Lee embodied that quote, as a southerner who spoke out against the rebellion and did everything he could to avoid it, but when his country called upon him he did what he understood as his duty. He was a unifying figure in that regard back then.
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  #10958  
Old 08-22-2017, 02:04 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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There are graves for German soldiers from WWII. I always thought we had Confederate Soldier monuments for similar reasons.

These monuments don't say anything endorsing slavery or white supremacy do they?
During the Nazi period, swastikas were required to be placed on gravestones regardless of your feelings about the Nazis or actual religious piety. Since then, many have seen been removed or replaced with new gravestones.
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  #10959  
Old 08-22-2017, 12:41 PM
SomeRandomEvilGuy SomeRandomEvilGuy is offline

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It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
- Father Dennis Edward O'Brian, USMC
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  #10960  
Old 08-22-2017, 04:53 PM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Prolly one of the most idiotic articles I've ever read.
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  #10961  
Old 08-22-2017, 08:43 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Prolly one of the most idiotic articles I've ever read.
This is what happens when people think if they can spend tens of thousands of dollars and make macaroni art for four years they should be able to run society.
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  #10962  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:07 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Prolly one of the most idiotic articles I've ever read.
Here's let's top it.
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  #10963  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:11 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I raise you this.
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  #10964  
Old 08-23-2017, 04:10 AM
SomeRandomEvilGuy SomeRandomEvilGuy is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
I don't even get the point they are trying to make.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakwakas
I raise you this.
In fairness that's a fringe website.

The Guardian is a mainstream newspaper usually regarded as being of decent quality.
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It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
- Father Dennis Edward O'Brian, USMC
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  #10965  
Old 08-23-2017, 08:45 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomEvilGuy View Post
I don't even get the point they are trying to make.
From what I could gather from it, the author doesn't believe America is a white country and that all of the problems of the country stem from that.
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  #10966  
Old 08-24-2017, 05:04 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...=todayinmil.sm

Apparently a new ISIS video shows a 10 year old American boy who vows to defeat Trump and calls Trump "puppet of the Jews."
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  #10967  
Old 08-24-2017, 06:33 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...=todayinmil.sm

Apparently a new ISIS video shows a 10 year old American boy who vows to defeat Trump and calls Trump "puppet of the Jews."
Scraping the bottom of the barrel, eh?
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #10968  
Old 08-24-2017, 08:23 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Scraping the bottom of the barrel, eh?
You are welcome.
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  #10969  
Old 08-25-2017, 07:23 AM
SomeRandomEvilGuy SomeRandomEvilGuy is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
From what I could gather from it, the author doesn't believe America is a white country and that all of the problems of the country stem from that.
If the country is, and has been from its founding, majority white how is it not a white country?

Also I have never understood why wanting your country to remain majority X ethnicity/race/whatever is problematic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/08/24/isis-video-purports-show-american-boy-10-vowing-defeat-trump.html?ESRC=todayinmil.sm

Apparently a new ISIS video shows a 10 year old American boy who vows to defeat Trump and calls Trump "puppet of the Jews."
It amuses me that they're so keen on fighting the puppet of the Jews but won't actually face Israel.
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It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
- Father Dennis Edward O'Brian, USMC
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  #10970  
Old 08-25-2017, 09:01 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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They can't influence the Israel electorate with propaganda as easily as the US.
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  #10971  
Old 08-25-2017, 10:08 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
They can't influence the Israel electorate with propaganda as easily as the US.
But people already hate Trump. What do they think this is going to accomplish?

I was talking about ISIS, for clarification, when I said 'scraping the bottom of the barrel.' ISIS is doing the scraping, not you.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #10972  
Old 08-25-2017, 10:51 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomEvilGuy View Post
If the country is, and has been from its founding, majority white how is it not a white country?

Also I have never understood why wanting your country to remain majority X ethnicity/race/whatever is problematic.
You see this was never a white country, so that's racist. White are just afraid. It's pay back for colonialism. It's not bad, you're just racist. Everyone is from Africa so it doesn't matter. Ect.
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  #10973  
Old 08-25-2017, 11:04 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
But people already hate Trump. What do they think this is going to accomplish?

I was talking about ISIS, for clarification, when I said 'scraping the bottom of the barrel.' ISIS is doing the scraping, not you.
I don't think they know much about Trump. It is just the American figure head.

They are scraping the bottom of the barrel because I helped beat them up!
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  #10974  
Old 08-25-2017, 01:54 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeRandomEvilGuy View Post
If the country is, and has been from its founding, majority white how is it not a white country?

Also I have never understood why wanting your country to remain majority X ethnicity/race/whatever is problematic.
I think it's more that we've seen this a hundred times. Every generation it's "those damn dirty Krauts/Micks/Wops/Chinks/Spics/etc" that will never integrate and are going to ruin the country and we have to stop them from flooding across our border before they take control of everything. I don't think it has ever had any real basis in reality.
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  #10975  
Old 08-25-2017, 02:20 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeRandomEvilGuy View Post
If the country is, and has been from its founding, majority white how is it not a white country?

Also I have never understood why wanting your country to remain majority X ethnicity/race/whatever is problematic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
I think it's more that we've seen this a hundred times. Every generation it's "those damn dirty Krauts/Micks/Wops/Chinks/Spics/etc" that will never integrate and are going to ruin the country and we have to stop them from flooding across our border before they take control of everything. I don't think it has ever had any real basis in reality.
The problem that is coming about now is an anti-integration pro-segregation attitude that favors anyone who can come across as a minority.

Racism (to some) now equals not only racial bigotry but prejudice plus power plus privilege, and no minority has had or will ever have institutional privilege or power. So give them more. So they say.

"White" has had a fluid definition throughout colonial history as more ethnicities were added to it, until it truly meant the skin tone. It usually had the implication of "considered normal" or more grimly "considered fully human."

Now some woman and minorities, contrary to what came out of the old civil rights movement, do not want to be added to the "normal" society at large. They want to be both special and normal at the same time, essentially becoming a small ruling class as back-pay for old hatreds. As Mertico was hopefully paraphrasing "It's pay back for colonialism. It's not bad, you're just racist."
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