Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > Scrolls of Lore > Halls of Lordaeron

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #10976  
Old 08-25-2017, 02:41 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

Added to the normal is something that needs to happen. Not a bunch of assorted interest groups but as an individual. Humans bond together based off of their identities but in this case it is bad because these things are innate and there is an expectation that those various groups should be working together. You can't just have women or minorities focus on just their identities either. Men and Caucasians are going to want a piece of that identity politics pie too. It simply sows division and discord among the population, especially when so much of it is based off of grievance mongering.

If you want society to work together focus on similarities. Foster a sense of civic duty and culture. People should value free speech and other constitutional values more than they value economic policy. Ensure a sense of shared fate so people feel investment in one another. Do these things and SJWs and white supremacists will go away. They are very similar anyways.
Reply With Quote
  #10977  
Old 08-25-2017, 02:47 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

Eternal
Taintedmage's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,809

Default

To be fair, I think people are confusing white with Anglo.
IIRC I think it was Jefferson that generally saw America as an Anglo country and did not want the "Swarthy" Spaniards or Greeks in it.

People are confusing ethno nationalism, which has had a good history due to the animosities of the various European peoples, with "racial nationalism" which is an Americanism: a by product of America.

The other issue is that many times people didn't really have much of a reason, there's a difference between a fear and "well here's statistical research that says half these people value faith over country, distrust us; Jews; and gays" complete with terrorism.

Arguably there have been other times I can think that would justify this, such as WWI and WW II and The Troubles but even then that was a byproduct of the desire for an Irish Republic. To be Catholic or Anglican meant allegiance to the Republic or to the UK. When that desire is instead for an expansionist Caliphate you run into a Clash of Civilizations.

Even then, I'm not advocating for Concentration camps for all Muslims.

Last edited by Taintedmage; 08-25-2017 at 02:53 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #10978  
Old 08-25-2017, 03:46 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

The US had non-white people in the US at its founding. They were forced to be here as slaves and most of them don't even know what country they are from because that heritage was taken from them. Race is something you are born with but culture is something that is taught. Language being the most obvious example. The US is the most sought after immigration destiny in the world and many of those people would be more grateful to be here than many of the people that are born here. If the US accepted everyone that wanted to be here our population would double and the things that make the US so appealing to migrate to would disappear.

The wealth and relative safety in the US isn't happenstance. It took a lot of work and sacrifice. It is the infrastructure and the factories that make our economy so efficiency. It is our professional class that has studied how to provide things other people need most effectively. A culture that promotes stability and doesn't just want to take from everyone else. Our society can afford some people that provide less than they consume but too many and our collective wealth will see noticeable drops. Lincoln had said he wanted to wipe idleness and useless labor out of existence and those are the kind of systematic inefficiencies we need to streamline if our goal is to improve the economy. Else you are just making our poor poorer.

People that can't contribute in meaningful ways to the economy just make everyone poorer. People that commit crime harm us in other ways. Assimilation promotes cooperation and people are less likely to be guilty of the former if they feel ashamed of doing it. The US has no obligation to dishonor all the people that built it by letting people reap the benefits. People that come here should be expected to assimilate and contribute in a meaningful way. Diversity quotas are bad policy but if a Buddhist or a Muslim from a trusted country with proper vetting wants to immigrate here that is something our economy needs I think we should take them. We should just give priority to people that know our constitution, the English language, and have some economic value to add. In the past we didn't have this generous welfare system or many other services so when people came to the US they weren't really able to take more than they gave.
Reply With Quote
  #10979  
Old 08-25-2017, 04:41 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

Elune
Mertico's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 7,261

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
As Mertico was hopefully paraphrasing "It's pay back for colonialism. It's not bad, you're just racist."
I was. Many of them say things like "your grandchildren will be brown" or "this X is replacing you".
Reply With Quote
  #10980  
Old 08-25-2017, 04:46 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
I was. Many of them say things like "your grandchildren will be brown" or "this X is replacing you".
They are a bunch of racists that don't get the scrutiny they deserve.
Reply With Quote
  #10981  
Old 08-25-2017, 04:47 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

Elune
Kakwakas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 8,387

Darkmoon Card: Elementals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
I was. Many of them say things like "your grandchildren will be brown" or "this X is replacing you".
What's wrong with your grandchildren being brown? Are nonwhites incapable of being Real Americans™ or something?
__________________
Member #14
Reply With Quote
  #10982  
Old 08-25-2017, 04:59 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default


Minorities or women guilty of wrong think are treated extra harsh.
Reply With Quote
  #10983  
Old 08-25-2017, 10:04 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

Elune
Kakwakas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 8,387

Darkmoon Card: Elementals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
"White" has had a fluid definition throughout colonial history as more ethnicities were added to it, until it truly meant the skin tone.
What skin tone are the following ethnicities and are they considered white:
Irish
Sicilian
Persian
Japanese
__________________
Member #14
Reply With Quote
  #10984  
Old 08-26-2017, 08:51 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

With all the Democrats embracing Antifa I wonder if it is a new terrorist arm of the Democratic party much like the KKK was in the past fighting off Republican rule.
Reply With Quote
  #10985  
Old 08-26-2017, 01:31 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

Elune
Kakwakas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 8,387

Darkmoon Card: Elementals

So, I've yet to find someone who can put up a reasonable argument against allowing trans people in the military. It seems to just rely on an underlying belief of "they're icky."
__________________
Member #14
Reply With Quote
  #10986  
Old 08-26-2017, 02:35 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,503

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
With all the Democrats embracing Antifa I wonder if it is a new terrorist arm of the Democratic party much like the KKK was in the past fighting off Republican rule.
They're not really comparable at all
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10987  
Old 08-26-2017, 03:23 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

Elune
Mertico's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 7,261

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
They're not really comparable at all
In what way are they not comparable?
Reply With Quote
  #10988  
Old 08-26-2017, 03:34 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,503

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
In what way are they not comparable?
Well for one thing the KKK lynched several thousand people.

EDIT:

Whereas Antifa is mostly property damage, admittedly not for lack of trying but even so they're mostly at protest events and such, they don't go out and string up Republicans.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10989  
Old 08-26-2017, 03:44 PM
Joeygiggles Joeygiggles is offline

Arch-Druid
Joeygiggles's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,150
BattleTag: Joeygiggles#1104

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Well for one thing the KKK lynched several thousand people.

EDIT:

Whereas Antifa is mostly property damage, admittedly not for lack of trying but even so they're mostly at protest events and such, they don't go out and string up Republicans.
Probably because people wouldnt allow it, but they are close enough with inciting violence. I dont think they bring bats,clubs,chains,shields, and whatever else just to look cool.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10990  
Old 08-26-2017, 04:10 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,503

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeygiggles View Post
Probably because people wouldnt allow it, but they are close enough with inciting violence. I dont think they bring bats,clubs,chains,shields, and whatever else just to look cool.
I really don't think they are, the scale is just far too different.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10991  
Old 08-26-2017, 04:26 PM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

Poor Soldier
Ragnahar's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 12,430
BattleTag: Mathias#1221

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeygiggles View Post
Probably because people wouldnt allow it, but they are close enough with inciting violence. I dont think they bring bats,clubs,chains,shields, and whatever else just to look cool.
They bring all those things except maybe shields. There's plenty of evidence showing them bashing peoples heads in, hitting them with weapons and committing plenty of violence against innocents. They've been doing it for months.
__________________
Game over, man. Game over.
Reply With Quote
  #10992  
Old 08-26-2017, 04:58 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnahar View Post
They bring all those things except maybe shields. There's plenty of evidence showing them bashing peoples heads in, hitting them with weapons and committing plenty of violence against innocents. They've been doing it for months.
They are Bernie Sander's supporters that blame the rest of the world for their problems and think it is unfair that other people don't give them their money.
Reply With Quote
  #10993  
Old 08-26-2017, 04:59 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,503

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
They are Bernie Sander's supporters that blame the rest of the world for their problems and think it is unfair that other people don't give them their money.
Nah, I think they're just fed up with the free pass white nationalist groups have been getting.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10994  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:03 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

Elune
Ruinshin's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 21,145

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
I really don't think they are, the scale is just far too different.
No, its not.

The difference is todays technology allows for digital lynching. witch hunts that claim peoples jobs, cause families to hide, etc
They cause violence and pain at rallies, go home with the pictures they took, and hunt the people in them down, calling families, calling childrens schools, calling jobs, etc.

It isnt death, no. But its ruined lives.

And its easy to see this shit coordinated. Hosted on reddit, full doxxes on twitter for months.
__________________
Fucking Epic :X
Reply With Quote
  #10995  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:09 PM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

Poor Soldier
Ragnahar's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 12,430
BattleTag: Mathias#1221

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
They are Bernie Sander's supporters that blame the rest of the world for their problems and think it is unfair that other people don't give them their money.
I mean, you can see how easily people validate and excuse their violence and hatred right here on these boards.
__________________
Game over, man. Game over.
Reply With Quote
  #10996  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:17 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,503

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
No, its not.

The difference is todays technology allows for digital lynching. witch hunts that claim peoples jobs, cause families to hide, etc
They cause violence and pain at rallies, go home with the pictures they took, and hunt the people in them down, calling families, calling childrens schools, calling jobs, etc.

It isnt death, no. But its ruined lives.

And its easy to see this shit coordinated. Hosted on reddit, full doxxes on twitter for months.

False equivalence, doxxing is bad but it's not comparable.

The KKK systematically affected life in the south while it was active, it was in churches, businesses, etc.

Antifa is pretty much just active at protests and isn't burning prominent Republicans houses down or murdering them.

@Rag, yeah we can see PJ tell herself every day that Democrats are selfish lazy and evil over and over and over again.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10997  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:21 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

Elune
Mertico's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 7,261

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Well for one thing the KKK lynched several thousand people.

EDIT:

Whereas Antifa is mostly property damage, admittedly not for lack of trying but even so they're mostly at protest events and such, they don't go out and string up Republicans.
-hate people because of their skin
-wear masks
-are tools of the Democrats
-hate people because of their beliefs

Sounds like the KKK to me.
Reply With Quote
  #10998  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:24 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnahar View Post
I mean, you can see how easily people validate and excuse their violence and hatred right here on these boards.
There is certainly a lot of post hoc rationalization and tribalism. There is no understanding of the importance of rule of law or empathy towards other people. It is all about them. If they could understand ambiguity they would be able to see that just because someone has a different idea on how to do something it doesn't mean you need to threaten them with violence or try to censor them. Don't try to associate dissent with punishment for wrong think. If our schools actually made people into proper democratic citizens instead of indoctrinated drones they would understand that.

There is something particularly about Bernie Sander's policies and violence though. He does generally call for a revolution which are typically violent especially in the context of socialism. His rhetoric attempts to absolve people of any sort of personal responsibility and directs all those negative feelings towards an other who happens to have the sort of material things they want. It wasn't Clinton supporters or the GOP that embraced that sort of masked and random violence.
Reply With Quote
  #10999  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:32 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,503

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
There is certainly a lot of post hoc rationalization and tribalism.

If they could understand ambiguity

There is something particularly about Bernie Sander's policies and violence though. He does generally call for a revolution which are typically violent especially in the context of socialism. His rhetoric attempts to absolve people of any sort of personal responsibility and directs all those negative feelings towards an other who happens to have the sort of material things they want. It wasn't Clinton supporters or the GOP that embraced that sort of masked and random violence.
1. Don't you think that's a bit hypocritical? Talking about tribalism when you can't go a week without hating on Democrats for being lazy / evil, etc?

2. You certainly don't seem to, moreover you seem very dismissive and arrogant of anyone who doesn't think like you.

3. This is a lie. I dunno what your deal is with him beyond him wanting to reduce military funding but he's been one of the most consistent politicians in the US for years and has not incited anyone to violence. He's called out companies for immoral practices and greed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
-hate people because of their skin

-are tools of the Democrats
-hate people because of their beliefs

Sounds like the KKK to me.
1. No they don't.

2. Definitely aren't.

3. Well yeah if folks beliefs are "Jews belong in ovens" I'd hate them too.

4. You ignore all sense of scale and the way the groups are organized and behave.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/

Last edited by Mutterscrawl; 08-26-2017 at 05:35 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #11000  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:34 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

Elune
Kakwakas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 8,387

Darkmoon Card: Elementals

Come on, even the Dalai Lama is on the same page here.
__________________
Member #14
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
realspace, serious business

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.