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  #56426  
Old 08-29-2017, 06:59 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Arpaio wasn't being charged with anything from that tabloid. He was pardoned for a misdemeanor for criminal neglect of a court ordering him to not target illegal immigrants. AFAIK.
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  #56427  
Old 08-29-2017, 07:10 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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He's talked about how totally badass the hurricane is?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...c37_story.html

EDIT: And some healthy hyperbole.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...sit/index.html


I mean... that's not quite accurate. At all.
I uhh. Think it might be. Harveys broken rainfall records in the continental US, AFAIK. Damage and cost is up in the air though.
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  #56428  
Old 08-29-2017, 07:24 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I uhh. Think it might be. Harveys broken rainfall records in the continental US, AFAIK. Damage and cost is up in the air though.
I shouldn't quibble because it doesn't really matter. It doesn't affect the current hurricane response. But here in Southeast Texas, we keep the 1900 Galveston storm (aka Isaac's Storm) ever-present in our minds.

http://amp.usatoday.com/story/606389001/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmu...uch-worse/amp/

Granted, I'm mainly thinking about body count. Let me read those articles I just posted to see how costs compare...
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  #56429  
Old 08-29-2017, 07:24 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Illegals deserve no protection under the law. Justice is defending the American people from what can only be described as an invasion. The rule of law is following the law, which Arpaio did. Illegals should be happy that they're only being deported.
So innocent American citizens being racially profiled and stopped for being brown are just an acceptable side effect for you? What about all the American citizens who suffered in his tent prison or his other draconian policies?

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Arpaio wasn't being charged with anything from that tabloid. He was pardoned for a misdemeanor for criminal neglect of a court ordering him to not target illegal immigrants. AFAIK.
PJ, not everyone who looks Mexican in ethnicity is an illegal immigrant. You can't just assume they all are, and I didn't think you were that bad. There's no such thing as "looking like an illegal immigrant," and stopping every brown person and forcing them to show their papers is a violation of the Constitution. Stop hating everything America stands for.
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  #56430  
Old 08-29-2017, 08:52 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Illegals deserve no protection under the law. Justice is defending the American people from what can only be described as an invasion. The rule of law is following the law, which Arpaio did. Illegals should be happy that they're only being deported.

FYI, the lovely laundry list of claims against Arpaio you posted a day or two ago comes from this website which is a tabloid. The founders of which are involved in this case.



They were involved in human trafficking.
1. That's insane, if i shoot or abuse a person I'm still charged with murder or assault, regardless of whether they're a citizen or not.

So they absolutely have legal protection moreover, Arpaio didn't just abuse illegal immigrants. He abused plenty of citizens

2. If they're guilty that's awful, but you're not providing actual evidence Arpaio didn't do those things, nor are they the only source

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/27/u...ff-pardon.html
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  #56431  
Old 08-29-2017, 09:02 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Looks like Mattis is showing a rebellious streak and temporarily freezing the president's order to ban trans people from the military.
"Once the panel reports its recommendations and following my consultation with the secretary of Homeland Security, I will provide my advice to the president concerning implementation of his policy direction. In the interim, current policy with respect to currently serving members will remain in place."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...udy/614711001/
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  #56432  
Old 08-29-2017, 09:34 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Looks like Mattis is showing a rebellious streak and temporarily freezing the president's order to ban trans people from the military.
"Once the panel reports its recommendations and following my consultation with the secretary of Homeland Security, I will provide my advice to the president concerning implementation of his policy direction. In the interim, current policy with respect to currently serving members will remain in place."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...udy/614711001/
Anyone who thinks Trump is going to use the military in some sort of fascist takeover: take a breath, look at the news, and calm down a little.

They don't like him either.
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  #56433  
Old 08-29-2017, 09:56 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Anyone who thinks Trump is going to use the military in some sort of fascist takeover: take a breath, look at the news, and calm down a little.

They don't like him either.
Trump's orders didn't include whether or not to kick out current serving transgenders members. He left that up to the DoD.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/u...gtype=Homepage

Before I left the service a lot of my co-workers were disappointed I was voting for Clinton. I can understand though why they would vote for Trump despite some of his odd public statements.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...tive-of-trump/

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/da...voters-n643501

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/inte...ug-3-2016.html

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/poll.../02/id/756721/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...on/exit-polls/

Voting for someone doesn't mean you would support some kind of coup though. Only liberals think personal feelings mean they can subvert the constitution and break the law to get what they want.

Last edited by PajamaSalad; 08-29-2017 at 10:05 PM..
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  #56434  
Old 08-29-2017, 10:05 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
1. That's insane, if i shoot or abuse a person I'm still charged with murder or assault, regardless of whether they're a citizen or not.

So they absolutely have legal protection moreover, Arpaio didn't just abuse illegal immigrants. He abused plenty of citizens

2. If they're guilty that's awful, but you're not providing actual evidence Arpaio didn't do those things, nor are they the only source

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/27/u...ff-pardon.html
Why shouldn't illegals be treated with contempt? They clearly do not think America, its laws, or Americans are worthy of respect.

If he did those things then he could easily be taken to court over them. If not then perhaps the DoJ lacks the evidence that those events actually occurred. Obama was not a fan of him and neither was Eric Holder, would they have no taken him down during their eight years in power?
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  #56435  
Old 08-29-2017, 10:32 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Why shouldn't illegals be treated with contempt? They clearly do not think America, its laws, or Americans are worthy of respect.

If he did those things then he could easily be taken to court over them. If not then perhaps the DoJ lacks the evidence that those events actually occurred. Obama was not a fan of him and neither was Eric Holder, would they have no taken him down during their eight years in power?
Are you saying you feel people should be able to beat and kill illegal immigrants without punishment from the law? Because that's heinous, I really hope I'm misunderstanding you here.

Moreover, Laws and how they are applied are also about what we value as a nation, and speak to our character. How you treat the poor, the hungry, the outcast, speaks to our values.


So you think it's some kind of liberal smear campaign? You have no actual evidence they're lying, you have lots of evidence he did these terrible things, you have numerous lawsuits where he has cost the state millions of dollars. What this speaks to is not that he didn't do it, but that the things he did, terrible as they are, are not technically 'crimes'.

This is a failing of our justice system and our legal code.
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  #56436  
Old 08-29-2017, 11:02 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Why shouldn't illegals be treated with contempt? They clearly do not think America, its laws, or Americans are worthy of respect.
Neither do you, but you don't see me clamoring to allow the police to harass everyone who looks like you.
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  #56437  
Old 08-29-2017, 11:36 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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You're not making any sense
The German word for mother is?...
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  #56438  
Old 08-30-2017, 04:17 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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What about laws that target whites? To my knowledge you care very little about those.
(1) No, whataboutism. (2) See (1) again.

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Only liberals think personal feelings mean they can subvert the constitution and break the law to get what they want.
Yes, just like how only a sith thinks in absolutes.
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  #56439  
Old 08-30-2017, 06:38 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Are you saying you feel people should be able to beat and kill illegal immigrants without punishment from the law? Because that's heinous, I really hope I'm misunderstanding you here.

Moreover, Laws and how they are applied are also about what we value as a nation, and speak to our character. How you treat the poor, the hungry, the outcast, speaks to our values.


So you think it's some kind of liberal smear campaign? You have no actual evidence they're lying, you have lots of evidence he did these terrible things, you have numerous lawsuits where he has cost the state millions of dollars. What this speaks to is not that he didn't do it, but that the things he did, terrible as they are, are not technically 'crimes'.

This is a failing of our justice system and our legal code.
Are you saying that American citizens shouldn't be able to defend their country from a group that clearly hates it, ignores the laws, and steals from the people? I really hope I'm misunderstanding you here because it means you hate America more than I thought. Self-defense is a human right.

I think that the Phoenix New Times is a tabloid, almost on par with the National Inquirer or the Huffington Post. One that has a vendetta against Joe Arpiao for locking up its owners for human trafficking. The New York Times did not report on even half of what the Phoenix New Times did. Arizona is doing something right because of their reduced illegal immigration, of which Joe Arpiao was apart of.

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
(1) No, whataboutism. (2) See (1) again.
You're suggesting that a law is unfair because it targets PoC when PoC are the ones committing the crime. Besides, Hispanic isn't a race.

Last edited by Mertico; 08-30-2017 at 06:41 AM..
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  #56440  
Old 08-30-2017, 07:03 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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You're suggesting that a law is unfair because it targets PoC when PoC are the ones committing the crime. Besides, Hispanic isn't a race.
I am not saying that it is. Your original statement to Mutterscrawl used the term "PoC," which was accurate, and that is what I also used in my reply to you. And if you add "unfairly targets PoC" to your post, then your assessment would be more accurate, though it is not the law that I find unfair but how, when, and against whom its enforcers have selectively applied it. The key phrase was "unfairly targets." The problem that is up for discussion here, Mertico, is not the criminality of undocumented immigratants, but, rather, that the law against unauthorized immigrants is not applied equally to all pertinent groups. And I do think that the root of Arpaio's motivation was not a desire to uphold the law in equal measure, but a racially-motivated desire to descriminate in a malicious and unjust application of the law.
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  #56441  
Old 08-30-2017, 07:33 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Anyone who thinks Trump is going to use the military in some sort of fascist takeover: take a breath, look at the news, and calm down a little.

They don't like him either.
You'd be hilariously surprised.
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  #56442  
Old 08-30-2017, 08:49 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Are you saying that American citizens shouldn't be able to defend their country from a group that clearly hates it, ignores the laws, and steals from the people? I really hope I'm misunderstanding you here because it means you hate America more than I thought. Self-defense is a human right.

I think that the Phoenix New Times is a tabloid, almost on par with the National Inquirer or the Huffington Post. One that has a vendetta against Joe Arpiao for locking up its owners for human trafficking. The New York Times did not report on even half of what the Phoenix New Times did. Arizona is doing something right because of their reduced illegal immigration, of which Joe Arpiao was apart of.

1. Are you like Dylan Roof, who think you can just kill people because you don't like them?

Because killing people just for being illegal immigrants isn't self defense, it's bigotry and ethnic cleansing. Illegal immigrants don't all 'hate america' and steal, many of them pay taxes that they don't get benefits from. This is not an invasion, but lots of people will play it up like it is because it's easier to hate people and see them as an enemy, as something to fight, rather than as part of a complex social/economic system.

I don't hate America, I love our country and its values, I will not see people like you sell its soul out of misguided hate because you scapegoat all your problems onto "THE EVIL OTHER".

Now answer my Questions Mertico: Do you think you have the right to kill and abuse people, to break the laws that ALREADY APPLY to them, just because they're illegal immigrants?


2. No, Joe Arpaio flagrantly assaulted civil rights, there are numerous accounts, aside from the Phoenix New Times, which you have yet to even provide evidence was wrong in their story aside from your own conspiracy-theory speculation.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...rights/538119/

Quote:
"Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Phoenix-based department repeatedly arrested Latinos illegally, abused them in the county jails and failed to investigate hundreds of sexual assaults, the Justice Department charged after a three-year civil rights investigation," the Los Angeles Times reported. The investigation found "432 cases of sexual assault and child molestation, often involving Latinos, that were not properly investigated over a three-year period." Additionally, "one Latino was intentionally hit by a patrol car and dragged, with instructions for other deputies to 'leave him there ... A Latino motorist was incarcerated for 13 days for not using his turn signal. Emails written by deputies caricatured Mexicans as being from 'Mexifornia,' and deputies derided Latino inmates as 'wetbacks,' 'Mexican bitches,' 'stupid Mexicans' and other epithets."(The Los Angeles Times)

"Maricopa County Sheriff's officials misspent $99.5 million in restricted jail funds over the last eight years ... discrepancies existed for years between sheriff's employees' actual duties and the duties reported in county payroll records." (The Arizona Republic)
"A federal judge has sided with inmates' claims that conditions in Maricopa County jails continue to violate their constitutional rights." (The Arizona Republic)

"The Maricopa County Sheriff's Office failed to adequately investigate more than 400 sex-crime cases, including dozens in El Mirage, over a two-year period because of poor oversight and former Chief Deputy David Hendershott's desire to protect a key investigator from bad publicity, according to documents pertaining to a recent internal investigation released by the Sheriff's Office." (The Arizona Republic)

"A federal investigation found that deputies had used stun guns on prisoners already strapped into a 'restraint chair.' The family of one man who died after being forced into the restraint chair was awarded more than six million dollars as the result of a suit... The family of another man killed in the restraint chair got $8.25 million in a pre-trial settlement. (This deal was reached after the discovery of a surveillance video that showed fourteen guards beating, shocking, and suffocating the prisoner, and after the sheriff's office was accused of discarding evidence, including the crushed larynx of the deceased.) To date, lawsuits brought against Arpaio's office have cost Maricopa County taxpayers forty-three million dollars, according to some estimates. But the Sheriff has never acknowledged any wrongdoing in his jails, never apologized to victims or their families. In fact, many of the officers involved have been promoted." (The New Yorker)

"The Phoenix New Times ran an investigation of Arpaio's real-estate dealings that included Arpaio's home address, which he argued was possibly a violation of state law. When the paper revealed that it had received an impossibly broad subpoena, demanding, among other things, the Internet records of all visitors to its Web site in the previous two and a half years, sheriff's deputies staged late-night raids on the homes of Michael Lacey and James Larkin, executives of Village Voice Media, which owns the New Times. The deputies arrested both men for, they said, violating grand-jury secrecy. The county attorney declined to prosecute, and it turned out that the subpoenas were issued unlawfully." (The New Yorker)

On numerous occasions Arpaio put political opponents in his cross-hairs, eventually prompting an FBI investigation that began in the last days of the Bush Administration.

That was a highly abridged account of Sheriff Arpaio’s misdeeds. But it gives a sense of the man that Trump pardoned––a man every bit as cruel, immoral, and flagrant in his disregard for the rule of law and basic standards of propriety as Trump himself.
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  #56443  
Old 08-30-2017, 09:19 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Yes, just like how only a sith thinks in absolutes.
I am just frustrated with the idea that people can break the law based off of their personal feelings. It isn't an alternative to losing an election to try and get what you want.
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  #56444  
Old 08-30-2017, 09:24 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I am just frustrated with the idea that people can break the law based off of their personal feelings. It isn't an alternative to losing an election to try and get what you want.
Laws are made by people.

Laws, such as in the case of Jim Crow and similar laws, can be unjust.
And in the case of Sheriff Arpaio, there is unjust and unequal APPLICATION of law.

It is civic duty to oppose unjust laws and push for them to be changed by highlighting their inhumanity.
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  #56445  
Old 08-30-2017, 09:47 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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I am just frustrated with the idea that people can break the law based off of their personal feelings.
Like appealing to their religious feelings and convictions as a means to break or circumvent the law?
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  #56446  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:08 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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The German word for mother is?...
Wench do I look German to you? Are you teaching me German?

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You'd be hilariously surprised.
Why do I believe that you're assuming that you and your friends' view of the President represent the majority of the military?
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Last edited by Noitora; 08-30-2017 at 10:22 AM..
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  #56447  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:21 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Wench do I look German to you? Are you teaching me German?
No, the correct answer is "Mutter". What you said doesn't even sound very German.
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  #56448  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:25 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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No, the correct answer is "Mutter". What you said doesn't even sound very German.
I despise you immensely.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #56449  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:40 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Besides, Hispanic isn't a race.
It's a good thing people don't get identified as Hispanic based on the color of their skin and/or facial features, without ever opening their mouths.

(Except they totally do.)
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  #56450  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:52 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Reminder that these under-handed right-wing argument tactics are nothing new:
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for arguing is past." Jean-Paul Sartre, 1945
Conservatives know that racial profiling is illegal and wrong. They just don't care and know the only way to try to justify it is to make the entire argument look ridiculous and encourage the "muh both sides" argument from fence-sitters.
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