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  #26  
Old 05-07-2014, 09:21 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Orc honor. Orc honor. We cannot emphasize that enough.

Orc honor. As in, he died in protecting his master long enough for an evil spell to be cast in a befouled temple, so that infinite worlds could be ravaged and mercilessly destroyed by an insatiably conquering Horde.

Kilrogg's last heroic effort was to hold back the Alliance long enough so that, hopefully, untold innocent worlds could be ravaged and burned by his own monsters. "Psychos who kidnap people" is at least in the same ballpark.
That's funny, because his dying words were actually
Quote:
“By my blood…the Horde…lives,” the orc managed to gasp out, his voice a bubbling whisper. “Ancestors…I come….”
Which, in addition to his concern for the life of Draenor, suggests that his honor dealt more with the defense of the future long-term well-being of orcs.
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  #27  
Old 05-07-2014, 09:52 PM
Lutinz Lutinz is offline

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I came to the conclusion for me that the reason that Im just not getting into the lore in WoD is that all the orc lore and character development doesn't seem relevant to my horde.

SoO set up some huge social issues and interracial tensions that I really was hoping to be explored. The horde, more than firepower, needs to get its own relations between its members and its identity sorted.

Thrall, cant do that. He's never been a good representation of the horde at large. I like the character and all but he can learn all the lessons he wants and it will still mean nothing to the horde at large. He is the wrong lens for this story.

The orc lore in this game just doesn't feel relevant to the horde. Its part of a past that has no identity in the current horde and its a past that most of the horde simply wont interact with. How this is supposed to help the horde sort out its identity is lost on me.

Case in point is the Bleeding Hollow. They seem more like Trolls than any orcs we actually have had in the horde. The Bleeding Hollow we are seeing in WoD has no context to build an identifying context to. Perhaps if we had a character like Jorin Deadeye to give us a contrast it would work but you could practically change most of the orc clans in old Dreanor for purple smurfs and it would still feel as relevant.

Honestly, the alternate dimension thing is a huge can of worms for them to be messing with, particularly if they wish to avoid conflicts with established lore on timelines. I really hope they thought it through carefully or it could really come back and bite them on the butt.

Last edited by Lutinz; 05-07-2014 at 09:55 PM..
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  #28  
Old 05-07-2014, 09:57 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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You may want to raise that concern with the developers on Twitter.
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  #29  
Old 05-08-2014, 06:20 AM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

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Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
I came to the conclusion for me that the reason that Im just not getting into the lore in WoD is that all the orc lore and character development doesn't seem relevant to my horde.

SoO set up some huge social issues and interracial tensions that I really was hoping to be explored. The horde, more than firepower, needs to get its own relations between its members and its identity sorted.
Blizz and Metzen don't want to deal with that plot. That plot isn't "cool."
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  #30  
Old 05-08-2014, 06:29 AM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

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Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
I hope that too. It would turn all WoD's worldbuilding into trash.
Why do you think so? This new lore will be still relevant to the AU Draenor. I'm more afraid about the possible giant wave of retcons even of the WoW era material, that may come, if they decide to mark this new lore as canon to the MU Draenor as well.
But come to think of it, the main problem is entirely different. The problem is that they've introduced the storyline of WoD without thinking it out thoroughly. They are still not 100% sure of whether they should make Draenor part of an entire AU, or make it separate from its original universe. The same goes for this problem of different backgrounds of various orcish clans and their characters.
I am really afraid, that their real motivation for this storyline was the infamous rule of cool. Because if it was more about creating a new logical plot twist or creating a well developed stroy arc, they would have already decided how to work with all of these problems.
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  #31  
Old 05-08-2014, 06:39 AM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
That's funny, because his dying words were actually
Which, in addition to his concern for the life of Draenor, suggests that his honor dealt more with the defense of the future long-term well-being of orcs.
At the expense of everyone else lol
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  #32  
Old 05-08-2014, 07:37 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
That's funny, because his dying words were actually
Which, in addition to his concern for the life of Draenor, suggests that his honor dealt more with the defense of the future long-term well-being of orcs.
Indeed, Kilrogg said both of those quotes in the same passage. It's almost a Horde thematic at this point to answer the question: "Do you love your family enough to kill innocent strangers, if it's the only way your family will be protected?"

The Alliance never has to answer that question. The Horde never gets to stop answering it. That question led to the First War, Second War, Dark Portal War, Invasion of Kalimdor, Cataclysm, and probably many more conflicts in which the Horde had to attack somebody to avoid starving or otherwise spontaneously dying. I dunno, maybe it's Blizzard's fault.
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  #33  
Old 05-08-2014, 07:49 AM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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^ The Horde never looks for alternatives to killing others. It's never been that they HAD to do it. It's always been that they WANTED to.
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  #34  
Old 05-08-2014, 08:13 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Indeed, Kilrogg said both of those quotes in the same passage. It's almost a Horde thematic at this point to answer the question: "Do you love your family enough to kill innocent strangers, if it's the only way your family will be protected?"

The Alliance never has to answer that question. The Horde never gets to stop answering it. That question led to the First War, Second War, Dark Portal War, Invasion of Kalimdor, Cataclysm, and probably many more conflicts in which the Horde had to attack somebody to avoid starving or otherwise spontaneously dying. I dunno, maybe it's Blizzard's fault.
Too be fair, Arthas got that choice.
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  #35  
Old 05-08-2014, 08:16 AM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Too be fair, Arthas got that choice.
When was that?
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  #36  
Old 05-08-2014, 08:19 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Too be fair, Arthas got that choice.
Meh.... Arthas got to answer the question: "Can you see enough of the big picture to kill A FEW INNOCENT MEMBERS of your family in order to save the rest, if it's the only way most of your family will be protected?"

As far as I know, the Horde does NOT ever sacrifice a few of its innocent members in order to save the rest. The Horde will kill enemies. The Horde will kill its own family members if they turn evil and can't be redeemed. The Horde will kill innocents, so long as they are strangers. Is that accurate?


EDIT: Though they will sacrifice themselves, of course. Everyone is game for self sacrifice.
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  #37  
Old 05-08-2014, 08:46 AM
Arterius Arterius is offline

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Originally Posted by Westlee View Post
When was that?
I'd personally say Stratholme counts. He was willing to kill everyone in the city, even if there were still people who had not eaten the infected grain, in order to stop the spread of the plague there. In the end, he did not succeed, but he was asked the question and his answer was an emphatic yes.
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