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  #56701  
Old 09-07-2017, 08:47 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
That's two semesters. She had other money, to get the full ride.



Okay! But honestly, I wasn't offended at all - though your comment makes more sense now.
1. Ah now I see. Tbh my first instinct would be that she's being hyperbolic but it's likely she got other stuff too.

Regardless, can we agree that deporting longtime residents with no criminal activity and who pay taxes is counterproductive to the stated goals of bringing in hardworking intelligent immigrants?

2. Np, just wanted to clarify
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  #56702  
Old 09-07-2017, 09:16 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
You say that, but I wouldn't be surprised if the scholarship had specifically targeted Dreamers.

Which, I'm still undecided on politically. It has no relation to my opinion of this single individual.
I would rather scholarships be merit based instead of pity.
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  #56703  
Old 09-07-2017, 09:17 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Most of the Mexican people I've seen are hard working fellows. White people don't want to do their job.
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  #56704  
Old 09-07-2017, 09:25 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I would rather scholarships be merit based instead of pity.
I think it's arrogant of people to assume that they aren't based on merit already.
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  #56705  
Old 09-07-2017, 09:35 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Most of the Mexican people I've seen are hard working fellows. White people don't want to do their job.
Nothing wrong with Mexicans or Hispanics. Just illegal immigrants cutting in line and playing by a different set of rules.
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  #56706  
Old 09-07-2017, 09:55 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
You say that, but I wouldn't be surprised if the scholarship had specifically targeted Dreamers.

Which, I'm still undecided on politically. It has no relation to my opinion of this single individual.
Even if it didn't go to an American citizen. Perhaps it could have gone to a legal resident who equally needed the scholarship. If you have an issue with possible Russian meddling in our election, then should you not be concerned with individuals doing the same thing? Was it wrong for the Dole family and others to overthrow the Hawaiian government?

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
I'm gonna take a break because I just posted on this subject [all valedictorians get it, regardless of documented status and its been that way for years] and it's feeling like no one's reading what Im posting.

@Mertico, I think you and others are letting your dislike ascribe malice to whats really just a poorly worded tweet by a college student because they're undocumented as a kid, even though they now pay taxes
I acknowledged that all valedictorians received a scholarship. My question to Grackle was should they. Wherever this money is coming from.

It was extremely poorly worded. She is an uninvited guest and it is rude to insult your host, even if it was not unintentional. Paying taxes also means very little to me if she's still illegal.

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Regardless, can we agree that deporting longtime residents with no criminal activity and who pay taxes is counterproductive to the stated goals of bringing in hardworking intelligent immigrants?
Let's say we don't deport the DACA 'kids'. Should we still deport all other illegal aliens?
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  #56707  
Old 09-07-2017, 10:01 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Let's say we don't deport the DACA 'kids'. Should we still deport all other illegal aliens?
It's the "all" I take issue with.

We ought to deport criminals or people abusing their status who can be sent back to their home country without it being a death-sentence, frankly if ICE still has budget after that it'd be better spent helping revamp the immigration system so it's not so slow and terrible, rather than treating symptoms of the problem.

Once the root of the problem is stabilized then we can talk about deporting other illegal immigrants.
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  #56708  
Old 09-07-2017, 10:13 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
1. Ah now I see. Tbh my first instinct would be that she's being hyperbolic but it's likely she got other stuff too.

Regardless, can we agree that deporting longtime residents with no criminal activity and who pay taxes is counterproductive to the stated goals of bringing in hardworking intelligent immigrants?

2. Np, just wanted to clarify
Yeah, I agree those actions are at odds with those goals.

(She's also probably a nice enough person in real life. The internet makes us all terrible.)

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 09-07-2017 at 10:16 PM..
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  #56709  
Old 09-07-2017, 10:29 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Doing well in school doesn't always translate to doing well at a job and thus contributing to the economy. School is very different than industry.
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  #56710  
Old 09-07-2017, 10:39 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Doing well in school doesn't always translate to doing well at a job and thus contributing to the economy. School is very different than industry.
True. Yet, school is very similar to college school.
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  #56711  
Old 09-07-2017, 10:44 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post

Once the root of the problem is stabilized then we can talk about deporting other illegal immigrants.
What if I were to tell you that the only way that would work is if:America became a poverty ridden hole in the ground, Mexico Legalized all the drugs and hookers, or if Mexico magically became first world?

Because those are pretty much the only way anything will be fixed.
'
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  #56712  
Old 09-07-2017, 11:34 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I demand to know who changed the thread title because now I'm craving fudge.
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  #56713  
Old 09-08-2017, 12:31 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Taintedmage View Post
What if I were to tell you that the only way that would work is if:America became a poverty ridden hole in the ground, Mexico Legalized all the drugs and hookers, or if Mexico magically became first world?

Because those are pretty much the only way anything will be fixed.
'
I'd say you have a somewhat bleak and overly simplistic outlook.

No things aren't going to magically get fixed all at once, but there are several steps we can take that will alleviate the problem.


In no particular order
1. Legalize drugs like Marijuana which are no worse (and in some cases less dangerous) for folks than cigarettes or alcohol

2. Go after higher-up drug purchasers in the US for hard drugs rather than having people running all over central/south america trying to find their suppliers

3. Go after companies that hire illegal immigrants and apply the appropriate fines so they begin training and hiring citizens instead.


This one's a tad iffy but...
4. Begin exploring investment opportunities in Mexico for crops that might be affected by climate change and won't grow easily in the US.

Gives them something else to focus on as the cartels lose power from decreased drug demand.

If flooding their markets with cheap corn from NAFTA was part of the problem it's possible there's something we can do that'll make trade part of the solution as well.


Obviously none of this is a magic cure-all that'll solve everything over night but I feel they'd be steps in the right direction.
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  #56714  
Old 09-08-2017, 06:56 AM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
I'd say you have a somewhat bleak and overly simplistic outlook.

No things aren't going to magically get fixed all at once, but there are several steps we can take that will alleviate the problem.

In no particular order
1. Legalize drugs like Marijuana which are no worse (and in some cases less dangerous) for folks than cigarettes or alcohol
2. Go after higher-up drug purchasers in the US for hard drugs rather than having people running all over central/south america trying to find their suppliers
3. Go after companies that hire illegal immigrants and apply the appropriate fines so they begin training and hiring citizens instead.

This one's a tad iffy but...
4. Begin exploring investment opportunities in Mexico for crops that might be affected by climate change and won't grow easily in the US.

Gives them something else to focus on as the cartels lose power from decreased drug demand.

If flooding their markets with cheap corn from NAFTA was part of the problem it's possible there's something we can do that'll make trade part of the solution as well.


Obviously none of this is a magic cure-all that'll solve everything over night but I feel they'd be steps in the right direction.
There's a number of reasons why those are difficult..
1. Isn't the US's issue. the reason the US is such a strong drug market for Mexico is because it's got so much disposable income. If Mexico legalized all the drugs this would help prevent violent crime by bringing things into the legal area as opposed to the illicit market.
2.Same for number 2
3.actually would work although I favour a one-two punch. Do that and deport.
4. There's an alternative already given for number 4 that's been spouted by conservatives: end the argicultural subsidies. The reason that US corn is so much cheaper than Mexican is because it's heavily subsidized. If the US were to pull the plug on that it would fix that issue. This is an issue much of the developed world happens to have as subsidies towards agriculture is pretty common, particularly in the EU.
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  #56715  
Old 09-08-2017, 08:46 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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People would be more sympathetic to DACA if it was passed by Congress and it didn't seem like the Democrats wanted open borders and unlimited illegal immigration.
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  #56716  
Old 09-08-2017, 08:47 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Taintedmage View Post
There's a number of reasons why those are difficult..
1. Isn't the US's issue. the reason the US is such a strong drug market for Mexico is because it's got so much disposable income. If Mexico legalized all the drugs this would help prevent violent crime by bringing things into the legal area as opposed to the illicit market.


2. There's an alternative already given for number 4 that's been spouted by conservatives: end the argicultural subsidies. The reason that US corn is so much cheaper than Mexican is because it's heavily subsidized. If the US were to pull the plug on that it would fix that issue. This is an issue much of the developed world happens to have as subsidies towards agriculture is pretty common, particularly in the EU.
1. I feel it's at least partially our issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.0692d38c7936

Quote:
Mexico provides more than 90 percent of America’s heroin, up from less than 10 percent in 2003, when Colombia was the main supplier. Poppy production has expanded by about 800 percent in a decade as U.S. demand has soared. The western state of Guerrero is the center of this business, producing more than half of Mexico’s opium poppies, the base ingredient for heroin. Guerrero also has become the most violent state in Mexico, with more than 2,200 killings last year.

“These groups have transformed themselves into a super-criminal power,” said Ricardo Mejia Berdeja, the head of the security committee in the Guerrero state congress. “The anchor for organized crime is heroin poppy.”

Guerrero has produced marijuana and poppies for decades. But organized crime used to be more organized, with one main cartel in the state quietly paying off police and officials and moving drugs. The booming heroin business has encouraged the rise of new gun-toting trafficking bands, which in turn has triggered the rise of citizen militias.

2. Perhaps the best compromise is to change agricultural subsidies, we have more corn than we'll ever need, but with climates changing we can explore other crops that might be reduced in their normal locations.

I once saw the concept of farm-towers, where there's a big skyscraper type building but each floor is used like a greenhouse with idealized conditions for different kinds of plants.
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  #56717  
Old 09-08-2017, 08:56 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
It's the "all" I take issue with.

We ought to deport criminals or people abusing their status who can be sent back to their home country without it being a death-sentence, frankly if ICE still has budget after that it'd be better spent helping revamp the immigration system so it's not so slow and terrible, rather than treating symptoms of the problem.

Once the root of the problem is stabilized then we can talk about deporting other illegal immigrants.
Good news. They're all criminals. And once the wall is built it will stabilize the problem. If you ever wonder why conservative become reactionaries, your post is why.
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  #56718  
Old 09-08-2017, 09:09 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Good news. They're all criminals.

And once the wall is built it will stabilize the problem.

If you ever wonder why conservative become reactionaries, your post is why.
1. Only by technicality in many cases.

2. The wall's not going to work. It's a huge, impractical, project that will cost billions and not really affect much.

3. I very much doubt that.
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  #56719  
Old 09-08-2017, 09:23 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Good news. They're all criminals. And once the wall is built it will stabilize the problem. If you ever wonder why conservative become reactionaries, your post is why.
And people like you turn moderates into communists.
I don't understand how the wall is suppose to stop people from legally crossing the border, anyway. I guess you just want to waste taxpayer money?
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  #56720  
Old 09-08-2017, 10:58 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Good news. They're all criminals. And once the wall is built it will stabilize the problem. If you ever wonder why conservative become reactionaries, your post is why.
Some posters here would make good recruiters for the Republican party.
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  #56721  
Old 09-08-2017, 12:03 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
1. Only by technicality in many cases.
What is this suppose to imply?
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  #56722  
Old 09-08-2017, 12:05 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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What is this suppose to imply?
If they're brought here when they're kids they don't really have the choice to be breaking the law or not.
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  #56723  
Old 09-08-2017, 12:58 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Some posters here would make good recruiters for the Republican party.
Saying that the Great Wall of America will make everything better is good recruitment material?

I mean, people aren't still taking that idea seriously, are they?
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #56724  
Old 09-08-2017, 01:23 PM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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Saying that the Great Wall of America will make everything better is good recruitment material?

I mean, people aren't still taking that idea seriously, are they?
Let's hope not.
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  #56725  
Old 09-08-2017, 03:33 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
If they're brought here when they're kids they don't really have the choice to be breaking the law or not.
There are roughly 800k people protected by DACA. There is somewhere between 10 and 25 million illegals currently in the US. The majority of illegals are not protected by DACA. 'Many cases' are the minority. An extreme minority. For the record, Syria has a population of about 18.5 million.

Last edited by Mertico; 09-08-2017 at 03:38 PM..
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