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Old 02-16-2014, 03:44 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Default The Iron Horde

So, I'd like to ask y'all some questions that have been on my mind since the whole WoD announcement dropped. I realize that we're still a long way off from getting any meaningful lore information but it still makes me wonder.

Since the Iron Horde is a union of the uncorrupted Orc clans thanks to Garrosh and his Iron Star technology, that means that they have no external force, I.E the Burning Legion, driving them to attack and slaughter en masse the Draenei of AU Draenor.

So...why are they doing it? From what we've seen of the orcs of AU Draenor, they weren't the "peaceful, shamanistic" people describe of the pre-First War mag'har. They seem to be aggressive imperialistic savages bent on conquest and death for...no reason.

What reasons would they have to go to war? I mean, there's no Kil'jaeden driving them on. There's no demon corruption aside from Gul'dan and his Stormreavers, and the BL is probably not happy about that, but the majority of the Iron Horde are pure mag'har. And yet they still act like the Old Horde did, minus warlock magic - only now they enslave gronn and what not.

So yeah. Maybe I'm missing something but I dunno. It seems like the Iron Horde, even without demonic corruption, which a lot of people have justified saying "the orcs were peaceful before demon corruption", are warlike and aggressive without any real reason.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:48 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Garrosh stopped the Orcs from drinking the blood. He didn't prevent from being manipulated early on as they killed Draenei. Also, the Ogres are enslaving the Orcs, so that's a reason to fight. It's also technically their planet, so they might be pissed off at Draenei.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:51 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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I guess it's just confusing because:

a) the Orcs never cared the Draenei lived there before, even when they were high on demon crack.

b) You'd think that even if someone as boneheaded as Garrosh told you "If you drink demon blood you'll destroy the planet", you'd stop and rethink what's going on instead of saying "Let's just go kill all the squids without demon blood and with your awesome technology! YAAAY!"

c) It just seems so...I dunno. Sad? That so many orcish heroes are being made out to be just generic evil Iron Horde guys again.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:54 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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What Noitora said. They had originally already started annihilating the Draenei under Ner'zhul's rule.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:54 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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So...why are they doing it?
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:56 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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What Noitora said. They had originally already started annihilating the Draenei under Ner'zhul's rule.
I get that, but you'd think that if someone said that it was all a big trap, you wouldn't keep merrily genociding the Draenei just without the demon blood, would you? It seems like they just threw away the Legion for free squid hunting machines.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:57 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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To be honest, it's actually a good question and I hope that they'll explore it just a little. We know things are getting out of control fast and Ogrim's getting involved. Maybe there will be some reflection about what motivates them. The major characters so far are Grom, Blackhand, both of them who love war, and Ner'zhul who apparently is a little nuts.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:57 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Well, Garrosh is bringing in modern weapons and magic, right? That would give the orcs a substantial advantage in any battlefield. Given that they're already used to fighting, and have combat as something of a cultural expectation, I can see them using it to expand their territory at the expense of other races.

I'm still bothered by the Iron Horde name. There are too many factions that already include the word "iron" in their title.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:58 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Do these people actually use iron? You'd think they'd start using steel and shit.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:58 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
To be honest, it's actually a good question and I hope that they'll explore it just a little. We know things are getting out of control fast and Ogrim's getting involved. Maybe there will be some reflection about what motivates them. The major characters so far are Grom, Blackhand, both of them who love war, and Ner'zhul who apparently is a little nuts.
Durotan chose to not join the IH because he wanted to focus on his people, but since the Horde and Alliance are enemies the Frostwolves will presumably gladly fight the AU Draenei too. It just smacks of oddity that the mag'har are kinda like Hellscream in that they're all capslock warriors who love war and death - at least it seems that way.

Hell, Grom was supposed to be smarter then braindead Junior.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:59 PM
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Do these people actually use iron? You'd think they'd start using steel and shit.
Steel Horde would be a better name.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:59 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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They haven't got the demonic corruption thrown their way, but at least some of the early manipulation seems to have gone off. We're not sure, but the timeline split was apparently somewhere after the purge of the draenei started, but before the drinking of the blood.

In addition, I'd argue that it's unclear at this present time whether or not the iron horde represents the orcish race. Of the, I think it's seventeen or eighteen known orc clans (though not all existed at the time. It's still in the teens though), there's apparently only four in the iron horde (warsong, bleeding hollow, blackrock and shattered hand), with two more trying to join (thunderlord, shadowmoon). We have gotten precisely zero information on where any clan but those and the frostwolf are.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:59 PM
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I get that, but you'd think that if someone said that it was all a big trap, you wouldn't keep merrily genociding the Draenei just without the demon blood, would you? It seems like they just threw away the Legion for free squid hunting machines.
Well, why would Garrosh go that far? He only cares about their purity, and the draenei won't just stop retaliating because the orcs tell them they're sorry. They've also been his enemies for a very long time.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:01 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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They haven't got the demonic corruption thrown their way, but at least some of the early manipulation seems to have gone off. We're not sure, but the timeline split was apparently somewhere after the purge of the draenei started, but before the drinking of the blood.

In addition, I'd argue that it's unclear at this present time whether or not the iron horde represents the orcish race. Of the, I think it's seventeen or eighteen known orc clans (though not all existed at the time. It's still in the teens though), there's apparently only four in the iron horde (warsong, bleeding hollow, blackrock and shattered hand), with two more trying to join (thunderlord, shadowmoon). We have gotten precisely zero information on where any clan but those and the frostwolf are.
That makes sense I guess. It seems odd that AU Draenor would only have about seven clans when there were as you said, a bunch of them in our Draenor. I dunno, maybe the rest of the clans are kind of just on the sidelines or saying "yeah no this ain't worth it" to the whole thing. After all, just cause the Iron Horde is united -now-, who's to say that it won't fall apart due to infighting just like the other Horde?


Edit: From what I've read, there's the following clans:

Shadowmoon
Thunderlord
Warsong
Blackrock
Frostwolf
Bleeding Hollow
Shattered Hand
Stormreavers

..Am I missing any?
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Last edited by Quirnheim; 02-16-2014 at 04:05 PM..
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:11 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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That makes sense I guess. It seems odd that AU Draenor would only have about seven clans when there were as you said, a bunch of them in our Draenor. I dunno, maybe the rest of the clans are kind of just on the sidelines or saying "yeah no this ain't worth it" to the whole thing. After all, just cause the Iron Horde is united -now-, who's to say that it won't fall apart due to infighting just like the other Horde?


Edit: From what I've read, there's the following clans:

Shadowmoon
Thunderlord
Warsong
Blackrock
Frostwolf
Bleeding Hollow
Shattered Hand
Stormreavers

..Am I missing any?
Think that's all that got mentioned. Stormreavers are a bit odd, since the original stormreaver clan was only formed after the horde entered Azeroth. Guess Gul'dan had the name swimming around in his head for a while.

If we're going to see the other clans, I'm guessing they'll either be refugees, slaves or independent hostiles. Grackle has his dreams of ogre juggernauts, I have my dreams of a questline where you start a whiteclaw/bladewind uprising.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:14 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Edit: From what I've read, there's the following clans:

Shadowmoon
Thunderlord
Warsong
Blackrock
Frostwolf
Bleeding Hollow
Shattered Hand
Stormreavers

..Am I missing any?
I think those are all we've heard about.

Anyways, it kind of makes sense to continue fighting the draenei, if Garrpsh wants to sell them the idea that an Horde could conquer other worlds. He needs to show them how strong they can be. Killing the draenei is what forges the IH's bonds, just like it did in the (other) past.

Last edited by Nazja; 02-16-2014 at 04:21 PM..
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:15 PM
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Even despite exposing the Legion's plans to corrupt the orcs, Garrosh probably still reinforces the fear of the unknown that originally led the orcs to turn on the draenei.

Plus based on the previews, pre-shattering Draenor could be a #savage, brutal world for the orcs to live in, so the idea of becoming strong enough to force their will upon their enemies and dominate the planet on their terms instead of struggling to survive against a world full of bigger, stronger monsters probably continues to appeal to many of the orcs.

"The demons are bad so go back to getting pushed around by ogres and gronn" wasn't likely to set in once the orcs had a taste of what it's like to be strong, and coupled with the longstanding uneasiness toward the draenei (even before, they thought the draenei were strange and inscrutable), Garrosh probably whipped them up into a frenzy on the premise of taming Draenor.

Now, convincing them that it's worth running off to conquer Azeroth (let alone without first totally conquering Draenor) is a different kettle of worms and remains a pretty shaky premise.

In the same vein, the very existence of an entire second "ogre homeland" continent to the southwest that the orcs never invaded (and the possibility of even more continents elsewhere on the planet) pokes rather large holes in the original Horde's reasoning behind their need for a new, unspoiled world to conquer and settle, let alone how Garrosh would convince the Iron Horde to abandon Draenor when they aren't even despoiling it with fel magic this time around. If a whole other landmass containing an empire lay just across the sea waiting to be engaged and conquered in glorious battle, why did they just ignore it and decide Gul'dan's promise of a new world with all sorts of attached uncertainties was a surer bet?

For all the orcs knew, Azeroth wasn't really even out there; they knew the hated ogres and their gronn masters existed, yet decided to just forget generations of abuse at their ancestral enemies' hands and leave them alone to go invade a mythological alien planet that they only knew about on Gul'dan's word alone. And when it comes down to it, the same questions arise when considering Garrosh's plan to bring the Iron Horde to Azeroth.

Even when one wrangles the lore to figure out how the Iron Horde exists, there remains no particularly good reason for them to care one whit about invading Azeroth - even less so with Draenor turning out to be larger and more full of opportunities for conquest against enemies they already hate than we'd previously been led to believe.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:26 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Do these people actually use iron? You'd think they'd start using steel and shit.
Since steel comes from iron, we often use the latter when we mean the former.

The Iron Age describes a time when steel weapons were used. Also, though Bismarck made reference to "Iron and Blood" (the phrase "Blood and Iron" is often remembered because of it, and we have those words specifically used in this WoD expansion), you can bet the Germans had access to steel.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:29 PM
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Eisen klingt halt besser als Stahl.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:34 PM
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Eisen klingt halt besser als Stahl.
What you said about my momma?
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:35 PM
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Eisen klingt halt besser als Stahl.
Not in German, it doesn't.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:38 PM
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Not in German, it doesn't.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:49 PM
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This thread needs subtitles.
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:09 PM
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Vielleicht für dich. Nicht für uns.
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:10 PM
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Vielleicht für dich. Nicht für uns.
"Mayhaps for thou, but not for our kindred.
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