Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > World of WarCraft Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #7526  
Old 01-19-2019, 09:39 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

Elune
C9H20's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,081

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
I agree with ARM about the breaking point analogy but Jorge isn't completely wrong either. Baine has been depicted extremely poorly as a leader up until now. It wouldnt have been a lot to ask that Baine at least actually said something in the many times past where shits happened he wasn't on board with, even just to the players if not the Warchief. Tel'drassil being a pretty fucking big one that was within this expansion.

That all being said, its hardly a problem unique to him. BFA's worst storytelling failure is probably is the lack of any subtlety or dissent in the huge factional shifts.
Its fucking dumb that Saurfang is literally alone in his defection from all thats happened in the Horde. Its even more insulting when characters who left the old Horde for less like Rexxar are apparently fully onboard with the current direction, without a hint of reservation. No-one bats an eye now, not even so much as so background npc chatter about not being 100% on board with the current manifesto but, if Mops history holds as it has so far, the moment the patch comes for Sylvanas to be toppled (and it will, don't kid yourself) there will suddenly and inexplicable be a huge swell of rebellion supporters who never uttered so much as a line against her beforehand all chomping at the bit for her downfall.
The Alliance isn't even much better. God-king Anduin assuming an unearned mantle without a hint of dissent is hardly decent storytelling either...

Overall its artificial and extremely lazy writing and it wouldn't even be difficult to fix. Some orc npcs talking behind a Forsakens back, a Night Elf refusing a humans orders maybe a worldquest to put down some Tauren who killed their commanding officer because he sacked a village including women and children. You could even throw in a choice after beating them down low health to kill them for their treachery or consider them "reprimanded" for their "crimes" and let them go.

A "Morally Grey" story isn't just one orc getting pissed and hiking out to a swamp to brood, its about showing the ripple effects across the board, ideally without just throwing past characterization into the trash (looking at you Nightborne).
Hear, hear.

I agree with everything you've said in principle, though ironically Rexxar whom you've picked as your example shows wariness of the path they are on after rescuing that Kul Tiran traitor woman.
Reply With Quote
  #7527  
Old 01-19-2019, 10:13 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,309
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

In the Stormsong Valley faction assault you command Rexxar, Rokan, Usha and a few others. You have them following you and you can tell them where to attack.

Pretty cool.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7528  
Old 01-19-2019, 11:49 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

Elune
Gurzog's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,032
BattleTag: Hulk#2393

Default

__________________
Btag is Hulk#23939
Reply With Quote
  #7529  
Old 01-21-2019, 01:58 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

Elune
C9H20's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,081

Default

I have been thinking that a 3rd faction might be a possibility lately.

It would be a good way to deal with evil shit in the Horde AND Alliance once and for all, have all the really dodgy elements (burning blade, the apothecaries, twilight and cult of the damned cultists, maybe druids of the flame... that sort of crowd).
They'd form the essentially edgelord faction, dedicated to power and ruthlessness. They'd be united by their dark ideology of power... and nothing else, very diverse and self-serving. It would both serve to give people who want to RP as bastards a place to do so guilt free and at the same time free other players of having to provide a room for them in the good guy factions.

Now obviously the main challenge is giving them an equal amount of content to the other two factions... to which I say, just don't. This is mostly a heavy duty RP choice so you ought to accept the downsides of not having the capital cities and all the questing hubs of the established powers
you can even go without giving them quest hubs in the old zones, at least before a world redesign, by just having them quest in other faction's zones and get quests remotely from an NPC like you could since Cata, essentially you are an agent acting covertly in enemy lands. So yeah keep the implementation of the faction low cost by having them suffer certain deprivations as the cost of playing on the "hardcore" faction. Some people may find these downsides unacceptable and that is fine, many won't and if they do it my way it won't cost Blizz much to implement what can easily be an expansion selling point. I foresee this faction would be smaller than the other two but they'd develop a close-knit "we are the elites" mindset.

The races you could see in this faction potentially are: fel/chaos orcs, orcs with demon/blackrock tattoos/customization, evil blood elves with arcane/demon customization, felblood elves, ragnarosian dark irons, ogres, forest trolls, evil jungle troll tribes, most kinds of trolls really , grimtotem, merc goblins, humans (possible cultist/defias/syndicate/pirate customizations), dark rangers, the evil part of the Forsaken, leper gnomes, fire night elves, wild worgen, various mongrel races like satyr, gnoll, etc... and if they choose to bring in demons and undead in a big way to the faction (though this could clash with future raiding opportunities) various undead and demons.

OFC the last question that remains is the lore, who made this organization... well the most obvious person and one who got me thinking is Sylvanas after she is expelled from the Horde.
But Sylvanas is a very polarizing character, people either love her or hate her and I fear as such she could drive a way a big portion of the players who would be interested in playing the "edgelord faction"
Since this is meant to be a banding together of various nasty factions in fear of the A&H's near total dominance then their leaders could help ameliorate Sylvanas' presence (people like High Justice Grimstone, Neeru Fireblade, Thermaplug, Magatha...) and if we involve demons or the undead as I've said then charismatic characters like Kel'Thuzzard and some of the cooler demons become available.

So yeah, implementation and lore could go many ways but the gist of the idea is to have a low cost 3rd faction that comes with some disadvantages but also unique opportunities and a place for people who are tired of the "champion" dynamic. As I've said I see this faction ultimately having fewer people than H or A but those people will probably love it a lot.
Let me know if you think this idea has any potential
Reply With Quote
  #7530  
Old 01-21-2019, 03:08 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,842

Default

Having three completely separate hard factions seems unfeasible. The playerbase is already divided as it is, plus numerous balancing issues do not help either. However, if it was done as with for example Elder Scrolls Online, ie in PvE, factions virtually do not exist mechanically (though they still exist storywise), and they only have actual gameplay relevance in PvP, I could see it working, especially with War Mode and Mercenary Mode in place. Hell, in that case, I could even imagine more factions than just 3.
Reply With Quote
  #7531  
Old 01-21-2019, 11:05 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

Eternal
Ethenil's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,625

Default

So I had a concept a few months ago where I divided up the Horde and the Alliance into other lore factions, in a system similar to what Marthen is describing:

The Alliance of Lordaeron: Kingdom of Stormwind, United Kingdom of Ironforge, Shadowforge and Aerie Peak, Tinkerdom of Gnomeregan, the Exodari, the Tushui, the Army of the Light;

The Horde: The Orcish Clans of Orgrimmar, the United Tauren Tribes, the Darkspear Tribe, the Bilgewater Cartel, the Huojin, the Mag'har Orcish Clans of Draenor, the Empire of Zandalar, the Highmountain Tribes;

The Concord of Thorns: The Kaldorei People, Kingdom of Kul Tiras, Kingdom of Gilneas;

The Forsaken: The Forsaken Kingdom of Lordaeron;

The Union of the Highborne: High Kingdom of Quel'Thalas, Grand Magistrate of Suramar.

Basically, Jaina would join Tyrande in her lust for revenge against the Horde, breaking away from the Alliance's inaction. Genn Greymane would die, and thus Anduin would lose support from Gilneas, who under Queen Tess are much closer to the Kaldorei. Meanwhile, Queen Calia Menethil leads the Forsaken Kingdom of Lordaeron, away from both Horde and Alliance.
__________________
Daelin was right.
Reply With Quote
  #7532  
Old 01-21-2019, 01:13 PM
Moonrunner Moonrunner is offline

Demon Hunter
Moonrunner's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montpellier
Posts: 494

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
So I had a concept a few months ago where I divided up the Horde and the Alliance into other lore factions, in a system similar to what Marthen is describing:

The Alliance of Lordaeron: Kingdom of Stormwind, United Kingdom of Ironforge, Shadowforge and Aerie Peak, Tinkerdom of Gnomeregan, the Exodari, the Tushui, the Army of the Light;

The Horde: The Orcish Clans of Orgrimmar, the United Tauren Tribes, the Darkspear Tribe, the Bilgewater Cartel, the Huojin, the Mag'har Orcish Clans of Draenor, the Empire of Zandalar, the Highmountain Tribes;

The Concord of Thorns: The Kaldorei People, Kingdom of Kul Tiras, Kingdom of Gilneas;

The Forsaken: The Forsaken Kingdom of Lordaeron;

The Union of the Highborne: High Kingdom of Quel'Thalas, Grand Magistrate of Suramar.

Basically, Jaina would join Tyrande in her lust for revenge against the Horde, breaking away from the Alliance's inaction. Genn Greymane would die, and thus Anduin would lose support from Gilneas, who under Queen Tess are much closer to the Kaldorei. Meanwhile, Queen Calia Menethil leads the Forsaken Kingdom of Lordaeron, away from both Horde and Alliance.
The Alliance of Lordaeron without Lordaeron ?
Calia Menethil has to be Alliance.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoshadow View Post
tell them only, that the lich king is dead, and that alliance lore, died with him.
Reply With Quote
  #7533  
Old 01-21-2019, 02:02 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,842

Default

Well, the "of Lordaeron" in the Alliance of Lordaeron has not been directly related to the kingdom of Lordaeron, at least if the game the term comes from (Warcraft II) has any say in this, but to the continent of Lordaeron.

But still, I agree that if anything Calia should not be the Queen of the Forsaken, just as I do not see Kul Tiras allied with the nelves instead of throwing its lot with the Alliance. Even Gilneas is debatable.
Reply With Quote
  #7534  
Old 01-21-2019, 05:29 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,309
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

How I see the factions shaping up post BFA

Horde---|-------|---Alliance
Vol'jin----|Saint|---Calia
Saurfang-|Hero|-Genn
Thrall---|Leader|---Anduin

Calia and Vol'jin are looking to be some sorts of spiritual/divine mentors
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7535  
Old Yesterday, 02:25 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

Elune
Gurzog's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,032
BattleTag: Hulk#2393

Default

I just want a horde leader that isnt all about "honor" or all about conquest.

I want one that is basically both.

Garrosh was the closest we got (mostly in that stonetalon questline)
__________________
Btag is Hulk#23939
Reply With Quote
  #7536  
Old Yesterday, 05:22 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,309
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

“We weren’t surprised that [Alliance players] felt betrayed,” Burke says. “We had the same reaction happen internally here. We had to make a choice, and both sides had very interesting arguments to make. We knew whoever didn’t get the Nightborne would feel a tinge of loss.”


https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/21/18...user-interview
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7537  
Old Yesterday, 05:52 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is online now

Arch-Druid
Jon Targaryen's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,398

Default

I think they fit on the Horde better.
Reply With Quote
  #7538  
Old Yesterday, 07:27 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

Elune
Lord Grimtale's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Slaughtered Lamb
Posts: 22,011
BattleTag: Grimtale67#1407

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
How I see the factions shaping up post BFA

Horde---|-------|---Alliance
Vol'jin----|Saint|---Calia
Saurfang-|Hero|-Genn
Thrall---|Leader|---Anduin

Calia and Vol'jin are looking to be some sorts of spiritual/divine mentors
Doesn't quite line up with the amount of screentime each character is getting (Saurfang and Anduin are getting the most screentime whereas everyone else are playing supporting bit parts) but I wouldn't mind if something like this happened.

Anyway, it seems like based on that article about Void Elves and Nightborne, they've finally given up on Worgen being the Alliance's "dark side" and just moved on to making it Void Elves instead.
Reply With Quote
  #7539  
Old Yesterday, 08:31 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,309
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

Bombing an Alliance city with a cannon
That's the kind of stuff I've wanted to see in Warcraft for years https://i.imgur.com/TIXhxB2.png
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7540  
Old Yesterday, 09:56 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

Elune
Gurzog's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,032
BattleTag: Hulk#2393

Default

rastakhan cinematic was ok i guess , only above mediocre because of the jaina stuff.
__________________
Btag is Hulk#23939
Reply With Quote
  #7541  
Old Yesterday, 01:18 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,089

Default

Both of the cinematics are nice but none feel specially awesome. I heard that's all the raid contains, but I would hope there's another, final cinematic for after Jaina's defeat that ends this raid properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
“We weren’t surprised that [Alliance players] felt betrayed,” Burke says. “We had the same reaction happen internally here. We had to make a choice, and both sides had very interesting arguments to make. We knew whoever didn’t get the Nightborne would feel a tinge of loss.”


https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/21/18...user-interview
Thanks. Nice to know they won't be forgotten. Still hoping they get model updates, thought.

Also intrigued why Blizzard can't be forthcoming and say "more void elves are being created throught X way".

"They start as a small group"
"They are not recruiting"
"Like-minded elves seek them in hopes of being transformed by a similar process"

This makes me more confident that the way to create more void elves (and make them a proper race) will actually be a pretty big plot point ahead.
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).
Reply With Quote
  #7542  
Old Yesterday, 03:30 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,309
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

They did say they're using a similar ritual.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7543  
Old Yesterday, 03:41 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

Elune
Lord Grimtale's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Slaughtered Lamb
Posts: 22,011
BattleTag: Grimtale67#1407

Default

I don't know if I actually agree with the idea that Nightborne somehow solidified the Blood Elves feeling more natural to the Horde. To me Blood Elves still stick out like a sore thumb and don't fit the Horde much at all and Nightborne are an even more jarring fit with nothing in common with the rest of the Horde except for some level of kinship with Blood Elves. To me, Void Elves bring way more flavor to the Alliance than Nightborne do the Horde since there's not really anything Nightborne do that Blood Elves can't do. (Even the robot golems and such that Nightborne have is something Blood Elves have with blood golems as well.)

Probably doesn't help that Sylvanas's actions should be considered alienating to the Blood Elves, with how Arthas-lite she's become. Especially characters like Liadrin who says nothing about it to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if she just kisses Sylvanas's ass the next time she gets the spotlight.

Anyway, I wish they had said anything about future plans for Void Elves like they did with Nightborne. I won't entirely rule out they'll be involved in Old God stuff pretty soon but it's still nice to hear something. I really like how active they are in the war campaign and incursions at least, that does help more to make them seem like a good fit for the Alliance.
Reply With Quote
  #7544  
Old Yesterday, 04:46 PM
Moomaul the Great Moomaul the Great is offline

Priestess of the Moon
Moomaul the Great's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 509

Default

Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7545  
Old Yesterday, 05:19 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

Elune
Lord Grimtale's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Slaughtered Lamb
Posts: 22,011
BattleTag: Grimtale67#1407

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moomaul the Great View Post
Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves Elves
I will go on to say that if Void Elves had been any other race related to the Void and put on the Alliance I would have liked them all the same.

Though yeah, it seems like BfA is being set-up to be another elf-dominated expansion like Legion was. The writers just don't want to seem to focus on the more misbegotten races like Tauren, Worgen, Darkspear, or Dwarves.
Reply With Quote
  #7546  
Old Yesterday, 07:08 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,089

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
They did say they're using a similar ritual.
The exact words were:
“But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.”

It's not told there is a similar process. "Would see if they could undergo", to me, only hints at it being researched.

He could have just said plain and clearly: "Oh, they are creating more, yes. They found a way to do so", instead he subtly evaded the issue and essentially told us what we already knew from Telogrus: that some elves are seeking the void elves to learn about the Void.
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alliance whining, azeroth literally dying, battle for azeroth, for the whored, mop 2.0 sucks, mop sucks, quilboar bias, world of warcraft

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.