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  #226  
Old 06-03-2011, 10:19 PM
Curll Curll is offline

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... And why not?
Alliance fans is not equal to Alliance fan boys. They are totally different people. For me, I am an Alliance fan, too. I love dwarves more than anyone here. But hey, I choose to discuss rationally. So, just take it easy.
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  #227  
Old 06-03-2011, 10:36 PM
SicilianNecktie SicilianNecktie is offline

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Wow, you can really tell that Summer has kicked in.
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  #228  
Old 06-03-2011, 11:05 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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If you were turned into part of an abomination, would you want to remember your former life?
I don't get what you're arguing here. That the Forsaken are doing them a favor by stealing their lives from them and imprisoning their souls inside abominations?

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And other people have done similar things and been treated as great heroes. Really, it's mostly a matter of who wins.
Nowhere on the same scale.
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  #229  
Old 06-04-2011, 02:57 AM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Cosmictimelion.
Lol, not only can Vyrin not enter a thread without turning it into something about the Forsaken and Lordaeron, he also can't go into a thread without mentioning me. Cute.

And I'm nowhere near as combative as you, Vyrin. I don't constantly derail threads into shitflinging contests. I guess the Story Forum wasn't enough for you. Vyrin won't rest until every thread on SoL has Lordaeron mentioned at least 10 times.

Last edited by Frostwolf; 06-04-2011 at 03:01 AM..
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  #230  
Old 06-04-2011, 05:40 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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I don't get what you're arguing here. That the Forsaken are doing them a favor by stealing their lives from them and imprisoning their souls inside abominations?
I'm saying that it's a war, and the Alliance people are going to die anyway. And what happens afterwards is irrelevant unless they're tortured after death, which being turned into an abomination doesn't seem to be.
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  #231  
Old 06-04-2011, 06:22 AM
Slywyn Slywyn is offline

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I'm saying that it's a war, and the Alliance people are going to die anyway. And what happens afterwards is irrelevant unless they're tortured after death, which being turned into an abomination doesn't seem to be.
Doesn't Thaddius scream and rail against it the whole time? And I'm pretty sure having your soul sucked out and put into a giant flesh-beast thing sucks hardcore.
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  #232  
Old 06-04-2011, 06:32 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Doesn't Thaddius scream and rail against it the whole time? And I'm pretty sure having your soul sucked out and put into a giant flesh-beast thing sucks hardcore.
Thaddius was a special case; whoever built it made sure that all of the souls making it up were still conscious, for some reason. No other abomination does that.
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  #233  
Old 06-04-2011, 06:49 AM
Slywyn Slywyn is offline

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Thaddius was a special case; whoever built it made sure that all of the souls making it up were still conscious, for some reason. No other abomination does that.
Even if it was a special case, Abominations are still amalgamations of other souls. Even if they don't remember, it still has to suck.
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  #234  
Old 06-04-2011, 06:58 AM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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I dunno... so many abominations are portrayed in the game as being loveable big dumb galoots with child like minds. I can think of atleast 5 that view most things as harmless fun or a game. Rarely are they shown as amalgamations of tortured souls.

Last edited by Sonneillon; 06-04-2011 at 07:21 AM..
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  #235  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:14 AM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

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I dunno... so many abominations are portrayed in the game as being loveable big dumb galoots with child like minds. I can think of atleast 5 that view most things as harmless fun or a game. Rarely are they shown as amalgamations of tortured souls.
Quoted for truth.

Most abominations are just giant retards with extra limbs and exposed digestive tracts.
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  #236  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:15 AM
Slywyn Slywyn is offline

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I dunno... so many abominations are portrayed in the game as being loveable big dumb galoots with child like minds. I can think of atleast 5 that view most things as harmless fun or a game. Rarely are they shown as amalgamations of tortured souls.
Because they're big, dumb, slow, and have their memories removed by force. But just because you don't remember something doesn't lessen the evilness of it.

If I were to come to your house, drug you so that you don't remember, and then cut your leg off... Just because you don't remember it makes it less bad? It's the same concept.
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  #237  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:17 AM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Yes, even when the abomination is specifically given the mind of an Alliance officer, it displays no signs of spiritual anguish. When you die, the spirit leaves the body. Who ever created Thaddius purposefully bound those souls together.

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  #238  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:17 AM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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I dunno... so many abominations are portrayed in the game as being loveable big dumb galoots with child like minds. I can think of atleast 5 that view most things as harmless fun or a game. Rarely are they shown as amalgamations of tortured souls.
THAT'S BECAUSE THEY CUT OUT HIS BRAIN YOU BLOODY BABOON!
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  #239  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:27 AM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Because they're big, dumb, slow, and have their memories removed by force. But just because you don't remember something doesn't lessen the evilness of it.

If I were to come to your house, drug you so that you don't remember, and then cut your leg off... Just because you don't remember it makes it less bad? It's the same concept.
I'm not saying what they are doing isn't wrong, but the idea that the souls are suffering just doesn't have evidence.

Most natural ghosts in game are often shown as suffering, tormented beings, vengeful wraiths or confused spectres. Not to mention to those that pass into the afterlife the Neather doesn't sound like that lovely a place. Based on its nature, its more a purgatory or a hell, even worse is the threat that the beings of the Dark Below might consume you. Wow doesn't seem to really have a heaven. Even the Naruu that elevate a soul and take them to a place of light, just seems to be stopping them from suffering.

I could be wrong, maybe being a ghost is all fun and giggles, but at any rate, that doesn't change how the Abominations are generally portrayed, like it or not.

Now, I'm not condoning the actions used in making them. I'm not saying its good, nor am I suggesting that the act is happy fun time. But we are talking about DEAD SUFFERING SOULS, being fused and put into a child like state to provide unlife to a sewn together monstrosity. Sure its unlife, sure its against their will, but that doesn't change its portrayal.

Last edited by Sonneillon; 06-04-2011 at 07:38 AM..
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  #240  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:33 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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I'm not saying what they are doing isn't wrong, but the idea that the souls are suffering just doesn't have evidence.

Most natural ghosts in game are often shown as suffering, tormented beings, vengeful wraiths or confused spectres. Not to mention to those that pass into the afterlife the Neather doesn't sound like that lovely a place. Based on its nature, its more a purgatory or a hell, even worse is the threat that the beings of the Dark Below might consume you. Wow doesn't seem to really have a heaven. Even the Naruu that elevate a soul and take them to a place of light, just seems to be stopping them from suffering.

I could be wrong, maybe being a ghost is all fun and giggles, but at any rate, that doesn't change how the Abominations are generally portrayed, like it or not.

Now, I'm not condoning the actions used in making them. I'm not saying its good, nor am I suggesting that the act is happy fun time. But we are talking about DEAD SUFFERING SOULS, being fused and put into a child like state to provide unlife to a sewn together monstrosity. Sure its unlife, sure its against their will, but that doesn't change its portrayal.
All this probably contributes to the loyalty of those Forsaken whose minds stay intact. It seems highly likely that they really, really don't want to die again.
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  #241  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:47 AM
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All this probably contributes to the loyalty of those Forsaken whose minds stay intact. It seems highly likely that they really, really don't want to die again.
Who would? Death is never a good thing, you don't see any of the mortal races saying "MAN! I cannot wait to die, its going to be fucking awesome, lets all drink the special koolaid.".

Immortality in a physical body seems to be popular. The Nightelves seem to have the whole dying thing the best out of ALL the mortal races. They become nature spirits, yet, they clinged to immortality for thousands of years.

No one wants to die. Your remark on the forsaken is a good one, they consider their unlife a curse however... which, I can see being a valid argument against your point. But I think the aspect of the unlife the forsaken are granted that is curse like is their eternal melancholy (Something that seems to come with being a spirit) being trapped in a rotting husk, they do however seem to be happy not to be in the spirit world however.

This all comes down to how people VIEW the forsaken. I've seen most rabid anti-forsaken posters constantly throw around the word "Their Zombies". Which they are not, they are conscious beings in dead bodies. But it sure beats being dead.

Last edited by Sonneillon; 06-04-2011 at 07:55 AM..
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  #242  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:52 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Who would? Death is never a good thing.
Exactly. Which is why the assertion that val'kyr resurrection makes the Forsaken worse, somehow, is confusing.
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  #243  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:53 AM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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I guess there are worse fates than being a hideous retard. I mean sure you're forever alone but at least they have the Forsaken to depend on, who have the compassion and love of an abusive drunk father...wait...I'm failing to see the good side in this.
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  #244  
Old 06-04-2011, 08:01 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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I guess there are worse fates than being a hideous retard. I mean sure you're forever alone but at least they have the Forsaken to depend on, who have the compassion and love of an abusive drunk father...wait...I'm failing to see the good side in this.
The Forsaken are only that vicious to the Alliance; they can be quite compassionate to each other. The only examples I've heard of where Forsaken turned on each other like that are renegade apothecaries and Lord Godfrey.
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  #245  
Old 06-04-2011, 08:02 AM
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I guess there are worse fates than being a hideous retard.
Yeah, you could debate the details of lampposts in video games for all eternity.
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  #246  
Old 06-04-2011, 08:04 AM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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The Forsaken are only that vicious to the Alliance; they can be quite compassionate to each other. The only examples I've heard of where Forsaken turned on each other like that are renegade apothecaries and Lord Godfrey.
Aren't abominations made from the corpses of dead Alliance soldiers? I'm pretty sure the Forsaken showing the Alliance what they do with "corpses" they can't use isn't meant as a mercy.
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  #247  
Old 06-04-2011, 08:06 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Aren't abominations made from the corpses of dead Alliance soldiers? I'm pretty sure the Forsaken showing the Alliance what they do with "corpses" they can't use isn't meant as a mercy.
Well, not to the Alliance, at any rate.
But corpses are inert matter. I don't see abominations as being morally worse at all than golems.
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  #248  
Old 06-04-2011, 08:14 AM
Slywyn Slywyn is offline

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Well, not to the Alliance, at any rate.
But corpses are inert matter. I don't see abominations as being morally worse at all than golems.
So if I took a bunch of your family members, killed them, and then turned them into a giant mush-zombie that wouldn't be morally reprehensible in the slightest?
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  #249  
Old 06-04-2011, 08:16 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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So if I took a bunch of your family members, killed them, and then turned them into a giant mush-zombie that wouldn't be morally reprehensible in the slightest?
How could you tell they were your family members?
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  #250  
Old 06-04-2011, 08:18 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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So if I took a bunch of your family members, killed them, and then turned them into a giant mush-zombie that wouldn't be morally reprehensible in the slightest?
If they were soldiers at war with you, not really, unless the war was inherently reprehensible.
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