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  #10326  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:57 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I actually meant to, let's say, "reprimand" Kakwakas yesterday, but other preoccupations led me to forget doing so. I'm sorry, mea culpa.

That said, it is about time we all calm down. Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.
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  #10327  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:59 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
Hammer gets permabanned because he can't keep his mouth shut about disliking Muslims.
It was about behavior, not opinions. Hammer may have been a racist, but he was only banned for being an asshole.

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Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
It's interesting to see this perspective, because I personally always thought political threads here were much, much more right-leaning than anything (note that I do not strongly identify as either left or right). There were times where I considered posting in the political threads, but due to the nature of my post being pretty much against what was said there I decided against it, since it would've probably resulted in people jumping on me, or ridiculing me or something similar happening, as I've observed it several times happening already - example: everytime Mutterscrawl said pretty much anything, ever.
Now isn't this interesting. And yet you didn't feel like you had to flee the forum?
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.

Last edited by Anansi; 07-17-2017 at 07:02 AM..
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  #10328  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:08 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
It's interesting to see this perspective, because I personally always thought political threads here were much, much more right-leaning than anything (note that I do not strongly identify as either left or right). There were times where I considered posting in the political threads, but due to the nature of my post being pretty much against what was said there I decided against it, since it would've probably resulted in people jumping on me, or ridiculing me or something similar happening, as I've observed it several times happening already - example: everytime Mutterscrawl said pretty much anything, ever.
I agree that SoL originally used to have a conservative/right-wing/whatever majority. I've had a whole to think about this situation and one of my thoughts was "Are we just reacting poorly to more liberal/left/whatever posters appearing?" But no, there has definitely been an attitude shift. Mutter would be ganged up on, but there were always other posters like Miffy who would come up the rear either to argue against their points or defend others directly.

Even after this whole mess conservative posters by my guesstimates were either matching or still outnumbering others.

Quote:
I do agree however that it seemed that the moderation cracked down harder on the right-leaning or conservative or whatever you called them posters, but I'm unsure if it really was out of political bias or because these certain posters were always very openly aggressive, abusive and hostile in the politics threads. I do also agree that Kakwakas very passive-aggressive tone in the political threads only ever added fuel to the fire.
I don't think anybody shouted as loud as Hammerbrew but no, the 'other side' always had people like Kak and Miffy shouting, albeit not as much as Hammer, shouting at least as loud as the runners up on the Right.

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Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
This "Us vs. Them" mentality has plagued this forum to the point where every action undertaken, every post made is interpreted by "The Other side" in worst possible way and as a snide specifically against them. Politics were, and continue to be, a mistake.
Pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
It was about behavior, not opinions. Hammer may have been a racist, but he was only banned for being an asshole.
That just makes his permaban even more ludicrous then.
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you're the edgemaster 9000 with the leet memes who's close second to Gurzog in shitposting.
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  #10329  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:12 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
That just makes his permaban even more ludicrous then.
How so? The entire point was that in spite of warnings and temp bans he showed no willingness to reform his behavior.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #10330  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:18 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
I actually meant to, let's say, "reprimand" Kakwakas yesterday, but other preoccupations led me to forget doing so. I'm sorry, mea culpa.

That said, it is about time we all calm down. Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.
All a reprimand would have to be is a friendly reminder. You can even send me a PM if you think I am stepping out of line or warn me more publicly if you want to. It isn't exactly something that has ever happened in my eight years being here. Admin criticism against me as revolved around liking blood elves, manipulating men to white knight me, blonde avatars, and essentially being dismissed and belittled as unimportant for sharing the wrong views. My not uncommon opinions could have been ignored or disputed but instead my character was disparaged.

If candor is appreciated I would never go to Cantus to resolve issues of harassment or breaking of the rules. I think going around him is the best course of action but he would just write me off directly and if he knew I had a problem he would start building a case against me to undermine that. I already know he doesn't think I belong here.

FrostWolf asked a perfectly innocent question and Kakwakas and Anansi felt emboldened to ridicule him. They know they don't have to play by the rules because they share the right opinions. I don't dislike Anansi at all but I don't think a light water bottle spray or slap on the wrist would hurt him too bad. Let Frostwolf share his post, give him an answer, and then let everyone be on their way. Sometimes all people need to be told it to knock it off.
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  #10331  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:20 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
I do agree however that it seemed that the moderation cracked down harder on the right-leaning or conservative or whatever you called them posters, but I'm unsure if it really was out of political bias or because these certain posters were always very openly aggressive, abusive and hostile in the politics threads. I do also agree that Kakwakas very passive-aggressive tone in the political threads only ever added fuel to the fire.
Right wing posters are/were more vocal about their positions and did so in the wrong manner. There are plenty of times that left wing posters have said things similar to what the right wing posters have gotten in trouble for but have continued on without so much as a slap on the wrist. Is saying nigger really worse than threatening to kill people? No, it's not. Gladus is the eternal example of all of this. Gladus had some pretty out there ideas even by my standards but he was banned for them while he was not hostile to anyone about his views.

Just the other day in Discord Gurzog asked about wearing a Pepe shirt. Miffy made some comment about wanting to punch him in the face for wearing a nazi frog shirt. Obviously, this comment was ignored.
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  #10332  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:24 AM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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Can we go back to the good old time when everything was interpreted through the prism of who you supported as legal inheritor of Lordaeron ?
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  #10333  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:26 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
How so? The entire point was that in spite of warnings and temp bans he showed no willingness to reform his behavior.
Because almost nobody gets warned/banned for being an arsehole here. Half the bloody active memberbase would be Ass'ed right now if that were a case. Hell, it took about five of us to point out Genya was constantly and blatantly attacking Grim to get him bloody warning.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt View Post
Can we go back to the good old time when everything was interpreted through the prism of who you supported as legal inheritor of Lordaeron ?
I'm going to break the record until it's powder and say it again. Ban any and all political discussion. No 'exile to the Halls', no 'only certain members can discuss it', just do what just about every rational website has done and ban it outright. Then maybe in a few months after the nuclear fallout has settled people might start coming back.
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you're the edgemaster 9000 with the leet memes who's close second to Gurzog in shitposting.

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  #10334  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:31 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I don't even like the left/right distinction. I don't talk about things in terms of race or religion. It is my criticism of media/academia/bureaucracy and support of defense/free markets/law enforcement that puts me in that camp. People may find the former to be sacred in their lives but there are many people who feel the same about the later.
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  #10335  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:35 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
FrostWolf asked a perfectly innocent question and Kakwakas and Anansi felt emboldened to ridicule him. They know they don't have to play by the rules because they share the right opinions. I don't dislike Anansi at all but I don't think a light water bottle spray or slap on the wrist would hurt him too bad. Let Frostwolf share his post, give him an answer, and then let everyone be on their way. Sometimes all people need to be told it to knock it off.
Perfectly innocent my ass, he's been trying to start shit like this since Hammer got banned. This isn't the first time he dredged up some ancient bullshit as an excuse to complain about people he doesn't like, and I doubt it will be the last.

That said, it's not like he's this sensitive snowflake I need to be afraid of hurting with my unkind words. He's a big guy, he can take it. I have faith in my old friend Cosmictimelion that a few jeers aren't going to drive him off. And he did share his post, he did get an answer, and he did go on his way. So I really don't see the problem here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Just the other day in Discord Gurzog asked about wearing a Pepe shirt. Miffy made some comment about wanting to punch him in the face for wearing a nazi frog shirt. Obviously, this comment was ignored.
That's Skytotem's domain, and I think he thought he was joking. Knowing Miffy, I wouldn't be too sure.

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
Because almost nobody gets warned/banned for being an arsehole here. Half the bloody active memberbase would be Ass'ed right now if that were a case. Hell, it took about five of us to point out Genya was constantly and blatantly attacking Grim to get him bloody warning.
Yeah, we're assholes. We've always been assholes. We've always been able to take it, too.

But Hammer (and I'll join you in saying "Genya too!") crossed even our big fat line. He wouldn't disengage, even across different threads and unrelated conversations. He'd keep shitting on the same people over and over again, unprovoked. If he didn't hate you, you probably don't have a great sense of what I mean.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #10336  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:37 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
Because almost nobody gets warned/banned for being an arsehole here.
Almost nobody here calls people "fucking autists" repeatedly.

Again, and this can't be stressed enough it seems, there's a difference between being a snarky smartass and being an outright hostile asshole. Hammer, despite several temporary bans and warnings in the past, never showed any inclination towards changing his hostile behaviour.

Most other posters get the hint if they've overstepped a line and receive warnings, and act accordingly. Those who don't are reprimanded one way or another (Genya sporting an ass for calling people "retarded" or whatever it was, is one example I guess).
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  #10337  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:39 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Now you just make my loins sad for Noitora.
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  #10338  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:41 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Just the other day in Discord Gurzog asked about wearing a Pepe shirt. Miffy made some comment about wanting to punch him in the face for wearing a nazi frog shirt. Obviously, this comment was ignored.
I hadn't actually seen this message. Once too many new messages accumulate whilst you're offline, having to scroll up till you find the first new message gets a bit too tedious.

That said, please bring up these issues in the discord itself or, if you must, in the discord thread. Although some of SoL's modmins are also mods on the discord, it is not controlled by us. Furthermore, I'd prefer actually reading offending messages instead of reaction to what the gist of them might or might not be.
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  #10339  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:44 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
No 'exile to the Halls', no 'only certain members can discuss it', just do what just about every rational website has done and ban it outright. Then maybe in a few months after the nuclear fallout has settled people might start coming back.
Yeah when that environmental post was made in the General Discussion section I think that is a sample of what a politics ban would look like. The ban wouldn't be universal. At least that is the impression I would get. I rather it just be a privilege than an outright ban or we would be back in the rules thread about how "X doesn't count as politics but only when people disagree with X it becomes politics!"

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Perfectly innocent my ass, he's been trying to start shit like this since Hammer got banned. This isn't the first time he dredged up some ancient bullshit as an excuse to complain about people he doesn't like, and I doubt it will be the last.

That said, it's not like he's this sensitive snowflake I need to be afraid of hurting with my unkind words. He's a big guy, he can take it. I have faith in my old friend Cosmictimelion that a few jeers aren't going to drive him off. And he did share his post, he did get an answer, and he did go on his way. So I really don't see the problem here.
He isn't a sensitive snowflake. I don't see why this isn't a defense of any sort of hostility then. Why can't HammerBrew call people a cunt or autist if people aren't sensitive? It is a double standard. You may not like what was expressed or may imagine insincere motivations but I think he could have easily said it, not got a reaction, and then it would have been over.

You knock it off Anansi!
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  #10340  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:58 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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@Anansi:
Had I not known that Spidey has been using that signature for months, I too could have assumed that he started using it as a reaction to Hammer's ban. Especially given that he wouldn't have been the first poster to do something of the sort.

Ignore whom it came from for a second and just focus on the message. Perfectly reasonable, isn't it?

@Everyone:
I'm probably overstepping my authority, but I'm going to close the thread for the time being.
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  #10341  
Old 07-17-2017, 01:36 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Being serious for a moment...

Ive been holding off on recruiting attempts until this stuff went away, and I was starting to think it was calm enough to start, but obviously not.

I think Discords had an adverse effect on the forums in that its steering traffic there. More, its only semi-officia SoL, which is just going to make issues like the political bias complaints worse when its not upheld across the board. See the mentioned miffy incident.

That isnt meant to disparage or downplay it.

Id like to suggest maybe making Mutters a special rank as (Discord Admin) so he can be involved the rule discussions at some level.

I believe rulesets for the two places, regardless of everything else, need to be as close to the same as possible.

The same goes for the Minecraft server (which ima try and join) and other things that pop up. Not official powers, just "These people run our other branches, lets keep them involved".

Further, I think Admin staff should pass on to Warlock the possibility lf maybe trying to integrate discord into the forums if its at all possible.Same with Minecraft.

Not to be able to chat, but include strings in profiles to lock in usernames, a "whos currently on chat/minecraft/whatever" widget.

The idea was, if im correct, to expand into general geekery or other topics to bring in more people. I think this type of integration will become more important the more we diversify. Otherwise an active community looks dead because only one section is being shown.
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  #10342  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:11 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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The important thing is to remember that there used to and ought to be more to this forum than political bullshit.

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Now you just make my loins sad for Noitora.
There, there. All our loins miss him.

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Yeah when that environmental post was made in the General Discussion section I think that is a sample of what a politics ban would look like. The ban wouldn't be universal. At least that is the impression I would get. I rather it just be a privilege than an outright ban or we would be back in the rules thread about how "X doesn't count as politics but only when people disagree with X it becomes politics!"
I suppose we could go a step further and ban 'controversial topics,' but banning controversy seems like a weird, scary thing to do.

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
He isn't a sensitive snowflake.
I know he's not. That's what I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Why can't HammerBrew call people a cunt or autist if people aren't sensitive?
He could have, if he left it at that. But he followed people around in other threads, repeating the same old shit, and never letting go. I understand that's why the mods decided to draw a line.

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
I think he could have easily said it, not got a reaction, and then it would have been over.
Yeah, and I think I would have let it go without comment, but K had already engaged.

What I'm saying is it's all K's fault. We can all agree on that point, right? See? Common ground!

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You knock it off Anansi!
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #10343  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:12 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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I think that Discord and Minecraft are probably the future for this community. There's very little reason to post here when all the same discussions occur on Discord, at a much faster pace. I imagine it's the same with the Minecraft server.

There's a lot of baggage in the SoL forums now, and I think that's made people reluctant to talk. And I will say that I while I think the new rules are in order, there is some doubt as to how reliably/consistently they'll be enforced. I won't say here whether or not that doubt is justified; suffice to say, it exists and needs to be acknowledged.
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  #10344  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:15 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by HlaaluStyle View Post
I think that Discord and Minecraft are probably the future for this community. There's very little reason to post here when all the same discussions occur on Discord, at a much faster pace. I imagine it's the same with the Minecraft server.
Faster pace, hooey. It's nigh impossible to catch up on conversations in Discord, and Minecraft keeps no logs to my knowledge.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #10345  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:19 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Faster pace, hooey. It's nigh impossible to catch up on conversations in Discord, and Minecraft keeps no logs to my knowledge.
Fair point, but there's a lot more activity there than here. It's a much more relaxed atmosphere.
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  #10346  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:25 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by HlaaluStyle View Post
I think that Discord and Minecraft are probably the future for this community. There's very little reason to post here when all the same discussions occur on Discord, at a much faster pace. I imagine it's the same with the Minecraft server.

There's a lot of baggage in the SoL forums now, and I think that's made people reluctant to talk. And I will say that I while I think the new rules are in order, there is some doubt as to how reliably/consistently they'll be enforced. I won't say here whether or not that doubt is justified; suffice to say, it exists and needs to be acknowledged.
I think (I dont know how the MC thing is) they would be great supplements, but not the future.

For instance..

Discuss project goals and benchmarks of Solthis on the site.
Discuss ongoing or ideas on discord.
Build the place in minecraft.

Release the server and attract people to the forum.

Just for one instance.

Like, not knowing how minecraft works, why cant we make a "Scrollsoflore" server cluster about fandoms and shit?

Same for other similar games?

Post archives of joint stories, art, ect here, but discuss and plan on the more flexible discord?
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  #10347  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:35 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
I think (I dont know how the MC thing is) they would be great supplements, but not the future.

For instance..

Discuss project goals and benchmarks of Solthis on the site.
Discuss ongoing or ideas on discord.
Build the place in minecraft.

Release the server and attract people to the forum.

Just for one instance.

Like, not knowing how minecraft works, why cant we make a "Scrollsoflore" server cluster about fandoms and shit?

Same for other similar games?

Post archives of joint stories, art, ect here, but discuss and plan on the more flexible discord?
I think that could work. Right now, there's not much traffic on SoL. Some of this has to do with the polarization—parts of the forum have become an unpleasant environment. Some of it has to do with questions as to how well the rules will be enforced.

Again, I am not making a statement on my opinion regarding the moderators—generally, my interactions with them have been cordial, even if I do not agree with all of their decisions. I think they are making a good faith effort at improving the site. But there is major doubt within the community, and effort needs to be made to win over those with doubts if this forum is to thrive.

Personally, I'm kind of private with my creative projects, but I think that sharing project ideas and efforts is a great idea. Cooperative ventures like Solthris or Minecraft can help ease the divisions.
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  #10348  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:36 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostwolf View Post
So, I see Spidey has some quote of Hammerbrew's in his signature. What's the reasoning behind this? To remind us Hammerbrew said mean things?
To me that quote signifies the moment discussion on this forum hit rock bottom. I put it in my sig as soon as Hammer had posted it, lest it be lost to the cacophony of insults and shitposting that the political threads were back then.
It's sort of a cautious reminder now but if the majority of the board prefers I remove it, I am willing to do so.
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  #10349  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:39 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
To me that quote signifies the moment discussion on this forum hit rock bottom. I put it in my sig as soon as Hammer had posted it, lest it be lost to the cacophony of insults and shitposting that the political threads were back then.
It's sort of a cautious reminder now but if the majority of the board prefers I remove it, I am willing to do so.
Let's not pretend you put it there for any other reason than to bait him further.

Hammer's gone now anyway, so there's no point in keeping it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltongue View Post
you're the edgemaster 9000 with the leet memes who's close second to Gurzog in shitposting.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:47 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
Being serious for a moment...

Ive been holding off on recruiting attempts until this stuff went away, and I was starting to think it was calm enough to start, but obviously not.

I think Discords had an adverse effect on the forums in that its steering traffic there. More, its only semi-officia SoL, which is just going to make issues like the political bias complaints worse when its not upheld across the board. See the mentioned miffy incident.

It's not two different Rulesets, Neither Mertico nor Gurzog said anything about it at the time to me or any of the mods. (Mertico stuck a little green heart on it for chrissakes) and Miffy didn't say -he- would punch anyone, and it wasn't said as a threat. Mertico is being disingenuous at best and deceptive at worst, in saying Miffy said he personally would punch Gurzog for 'wearing a nazi frog'.


Quote:
gurzog - Last Wednesday at 8:24 PM
considering buying this https://www.redbubble.com/people/mis...location=front
Redbubble
‘Feels Bad Man’ T-Shirt by MisterNightmare


Kak of the Wakas - Last Wednesday at 8:25 PM
don't

gurzog - Last Wednesday at 8:29 PM
Why not?

Miffy - Last Wednesday at 8:34 PM
because some1 like me will punch your lights out thinking your Spencer
💚1

Kak of the Wakas - Last Wednesday at 8:35 PM
internet memes and real life do not mix

gurzog - Last Wednesday at 8:37 PM
ok
It was an exchange that took place over the course of 13minutes, what would you have had anyone do Ruin?
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