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  #326  
Old 02-06-2019, 03:58 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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3. Which again, just a confusing stance to take when I thought the whole argument for including High Elves had to do with their lore, not their physical appearance.
High elf talk has no bearing in this discussion, since void elves are not high elves, nor we are discussing ways to make high elves playable.

It's a very simple matter: Blizzard gave Alleria a pretty straightforward high elven appearance, plus an armor that could very well be the high elf heritage set, and then made an entire "race" based on her storyline but that doesn't look nor dress like her. You walk into Telogrus and Alleria looks completely out of place, unlike everyone else there. You see her by Umbric's side, and they are clearly not from the same race (and, given how they dress, not even the same thematic group).

Blizzard could have altered her appearance when she ate L'ura, or she could at least switch her gear to a purple/gold color scheme in later appearances to say "she's now a void elf", but she still has a high elven appearance and a high elven thematic gear.

You may call story similarities as a reason to call her a void elf, but this is a visual media. The reason we were given for "no high elves" was purely appearance (which is why we insist they can be made different), so, if that's what defines a race in-game, Alleria is clearly a high elf, not a void elf.

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It really does seem like a big campaign to just divorce one of the Void Elves' most important characters based entirely on her skin pigment, when I don't think that matters considering they both have the same properties about them and one just got to it in a far more masterful way than the other one.
It's a way to show the hypocrisy of negating a playable race based on appearance while making another "acceptable" just because it was colored blue.

It also shows that Blizzard sold Alleria as a preview of the void elves but delivered something that had nothing in common with what we had seen before.

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4. I don't think that's entirely necessary, but I certainly wouldn't mind her wearing more Void Elf-inspired colors and just embracing her new destiny as a leader of an exiled people. I think she wouldn't look that bad in black armor.
It would mean changing her classic look and making her unreckognizable. Or, instead, the void elves could have been made to look more like her instead. but Blizzard wants to have its cake and eat it while throwing crumbs at us.
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  #327  
Old 02-06-2019, 04:31 AM
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I really fail to see why high elves couldnt be part of the void elves.
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  #328  
Old 02-06-2019, 05:03 AM
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Alleria doesn't have any of the permanent physical changes that the void elves have. It'd be sort of similar to saying a Blood elf Warlock that can use metamorphosis is the same as a fel blood elf. One only presents physical changes when using a certain skill-set and it's always temporary, the other is stuck with permanent physical alterations.
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  #329  
Old 02-06-2019, 10:01 AM
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Not all physical changes are actually visible. In fact, most of them aren't.

Alleria certainly is not identical to the playable void elves, but despite looking as she did while a high elf, she definitely is not a high elf any more either.

Maybe it could be considered wrong to call her a void elf. Maybe she could be considered her own thing. Convergent magical evolution, if you will. But to call her a high elf would be just as wrong.

In the end, what truly matters with Thalassian elves is not so much their biology. It's what they consider themselves to be and with whom they align themselves.
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  #330  
Old 02-06-2019, 12:43 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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I really fail to see why high elves couldnt be part of the void elves.
There are to some extent but you're right, they should have made the Void Elf backstory more expansive than just exiled Blood Elves. They should have been seeded as early as 7.3 with Alleria's army becoming voidcursed as well.

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Alleria doesn't have any of the permanent physical changes that the void elves have. It'd be sort of similar to saying a Blood elf Warlock that can use metamorphosis is the same as a fel blood elf. One only presents physical changes when using a certain skill-set and it's always temporary, the other is stuck with permanent physical alterations.
She has an echo'd voice, whispers in her head that she can never turn off, and a void form that people interpret as a tool but really it's actually part of her genetic being.

A Blood Elf Warlock would be like a Fel Blood Elf or Demon Hunter if he actually got so in tune with fel magic that he decided to infuse himself with it. That's the difference. Warlocks and Shadow Priests only use their power as tools, Fel Blood Elves and Void Elves literally infuse themselves with it. For the record, I do actually consider Demon Hunters something more than just elves, they are half-demons. They have so much customization that they might as well be something of a new race along with being a new class.

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  #331  
Old 02-06-2019, 07:02 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Some people fail to see that Alleria is a high elf.

Other people fail to see that she is a Void elf.

She's both, it's quite clear to me.

Ren'dorei, sin'dorei, quel'dorei. These are practically the same race, just different divisions based on culture.
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  #332  
Old 02-07-2019, 03:37 AM
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Some people fail to see that Alleria is a high elf.

Other people fail to see that she is a Void elf.

She's both, it's quite clear to me.

Ren'dorei, sin'dorei, quel'dorei. These are practically the same race, just different divisions based on culture.
This. Alleria is clearly a high elf turned void elf, which is IMO the best route to develop both factions.

I think a fair compromise would be to feature a questline where the Silver Covenant joins Umbric's Void Elves whilst somehow keeping their high elf aesthetics. This would make them a more heterogeneous group, give them more characters (Vereesa, at least) and probably satisfy some of the more avid demands for high elves.

To make it worthwhile, a few more Quel'dorei customization options would have to be added to void elves, such as blonde or light blue hair, pale-white skin and more transmog sets for each armor class that combine both Thalassian and void elements.

I'd also welcome a void unicorn or dragonhawk mount with dark blue and silvery armor as an addition to complement the race.
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  #333  
Old 02-07-2019, 10:36 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Perhaps Alleria’s transformation isn’t complete. She very well may become aVoid Elf as we know them.
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  #334  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Perhaps Alleria’s transformation isn’t complete. She very well may become aVoid Elf as we know them.
This is what I'm expecting to happen.

Void elf origins are still being told, after all. They are not a true "race" yet.
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  #335  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:23 PM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Not all physical changes are actually visible. In fact, most of them aren't.

Alleria certainly is not identical to the playable void elves, but despite looking as she did while a high elf, she definitely is not a high elf any more either.

Maybe it could be considered wrong to call her a void elf. Maybe she could be considered her own thing. Convergent magical evolution, if you will. But to call her a high elf would be just as wrong.

In the end, what truly matters with Thalassian elves is not so much their biology. It's what they consider themselves to be and with whom they align themselves.
I'd agree she shouldn't be a high elf by virtue of elves apparently suffering changes worthy of being considered a new race by just being near certain types of magic(like the blood elves got green eyes and tanner or paler skin, I forget), but with Alleria I see none of that, unless you can specify anything in particular. And fair enough about the Thalassian elves and their alingments but does she consider herself a void elf? She's agreed to lead them but I never got the impression she actually thought herself one of them as opposed to a high elf.

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
She has an echo'd voice, whispers in her head that she can never turn off, and a void form that people interpret as a tool but really it's actually part of her genetic being.

A Blood Elf Warlock would be like a Fel Blood Elf or Demon Hunter if he actually got so in tune with fel magic that he decided to infuse himself with it. That's the difference. Warlocks and Shadow Priests only use their power as tools, Fel Blood Elves and Void Elves literally infuse themselves with it. For the record, I do actually consider Demon Hunters something more than just elves, they are half-demons. They have so much customization that they might as well be something of a new race along with being a new class.
I don't remember the permanent echo'd voice like the void elves have? The whispers she can't turn off are common to anyone who deals with the void at a high level, it has to do with her choice of magic, and I don't see where it says the void form is part of her genetic template. As far as I can tell none of those are said to be genetically transmissible.
Gonna need a citation for the the Blood elf warlock part. I've seen no indication that being able to use metamorphosis for a short while makes a blood elf automatically a fel blood elf or like the demon hunters, especially since I believe there actually is at least one blood elf NPC follower that can use meta. And then there's the question of blood elf shadow priests, they imbue themselves with void energies too when they use their shadow form, are they void elves all of a sudden?
Alleria may well be on her way of becoming a void elf at some point but genetically/physically she seems every bit a high elf to me.
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  #336  
Old 04-19-2019, 01:49 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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  #337  
Old 05-27-2019, 08:18 PM
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This is a theory of mine about how Blizzard may actually planned to deal with the high elf issue:

I started with the following premises:
- The lack of void elf development is intentional
- The little we have of void elf lore right now hints at a story direction
- Void elves were introduced for a purpose in BfA's story
- Void elves were made out of blood elves for a reason
- Blizzard don't talk about high elves not because they don't have plans, but because they won't spoil the story

Ok, then I elaborated each premise with a possible outcome:
- Void elves lack development because Blizzard does not want us to get too attached to Umbric and his group.
- Alliance seeing Umbric being all polite and helpful while knowing next to nothing about void elves, while the Horde only sees void elves going crazy about feeding souls to the void or summoning void creatures is intentional: they are hiding their true nature to the Alliance.
- Since the void elves' purpose has not been disclosed so far, they must be important in the ending of BfA.
- Void elves were made out of blood elves because there would be no reason for general high elf population to be converted willingly. However, the current void elf origin does not make them a true race.
- Blizzard had plans for high elves from the start, and that means becoming void elves unwillingly.

Put all together, and I ended up with this theory:
- Last patch will involve high elves and void elves working together. Probably a Quel'thalas battle or something, that will make most high elves be rallied to fight.
- Umbric is a traitor, as are most of the void elves. "The boy king serves at the master's table" because the Alliance has been an unwitting paw of the void. The ren'dorei will do a Wrathgate-like event of treason, and spring a trap to high elves.
- Alliance heroes stops the transformation of the high elves, but it's too late, they are all transformed. We deal with Umbric somehow (either questline or raid boss), but now the high elves are almost entirely turned into void elves. This second generation of void elves now have numbers to be considered race, and is comprised mostly of elves that never wanted to deal with the void, adding a tragic element to their story. Void elf culture must now cope with that betrayal and the Alliance being wary of them.

My fears can be placated enough if that comes with more "high elf-like" customization representing this "second generation", and, more importantly, if the story is well-handled and done with the proper care for the fans and respect to the character's involved.

Of course, this is all theory, and depends entirely on all premises being true, but I think it fits very well as the easiest to implement (but probably hardest to sell) "solution" to the high elf controversy.
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  #338  
Old 05-27-2019, 08:42 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
This is a theory of mine about how Blizzard may actually planned to deal with the high elf issue:

I started with the following premises:
- The lack of void elf development is intentional
- The little we have of void elf lore right now hints at a story direction
- Void elves were introduced for a purpose in BfA's story
- Void elves were made out of blood elves for a reason
- Blizzard don't talk about high elves not because they don't have plans, but because they won't spoil the story

Ok, then I elaborated each premise with a possible outcome:
- Void elves lack development because Blizzard does not want us to get too attached to Umbric and his group.
- Alliance seeing Umbric being all polite and helpful while knowing next to nothing about void elves, while the Horde only sees void elves going crazy about feeding souls to the void or summoning void creatures is intentional: they are hiding their true nature to the Alliance.
- Since the void elves' purpose has not been disclosed so far, they must be important in the ending of BfA.
- Void elves were made out of blood elves because there would be no reason for general high elf population to be converted willingly. However, the current void elf origin does not make them a true race.
- Blizzard had plans for high elves from the start, and that means becoming void elves unwillingly.

Put all together, and I ended up with this theory:
- Last patch will involve high elves and void elves working together. Probably a Quel'thalas battle or something, that will make most high elves be rallied to fight.
- Umbric is a traitor, as are most of the void elves. "The boy king serves at the master's table" because the Alliance has been an unwitting paw of the void. The ren'dorei will do a Wrathgate-like event of treason, and spring a trap to high elves.
- Alliance heroes stops the transformation of the high elves, but it's too late, they are all transformed. We deal with Umbric somehow (either questline or raid boss), but now the high elves are almost entirely turned into void elves. This second generation of void elves now have numbers to be considered race, and is comprised mostly of elves that never wanted to deal with the void, adding a tragic element to their story. Void elf culture must now cope with that betrayal and the Alliance being wary of them.

My fears can be placated enough if that comes with more "high elf-like" customization representing this "second generation", and, more importantly, if the story is well-handled and done with the proper care for the fans and respect to the character's involved.

Of course, this is all theory, and depends entirely on all premises being true, but I think it fits very well as the easiest to implement (but probably hardest to sell) "solution" to the high elf controversy.
...........



I like it. I do. There's one issue that's bothering me with Umbric being a traitor/sleeper agent: he works for us. As in he literally is one of our errand boys. I don't see Blizzard taking away one of our mission table followers, and it would be super-awkward for me to get back from his betrayal quest/scenario/what-have-you and then turn him around so that he can go investigate the barrens and bring home a Tiragarde Sound Commendation.

Other than that, it's great.

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  #339  
Old 05-27-2019, 11:54 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Step 1. Blizz makes high elves an unlockable blood elf customization like night warriors are.

Step 2. Everyone goes crazy.

Step 3. Profit
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  #340  
Old 05-28-2019, 12:03 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
...........



I like it. I do. There's one issue that's bothering me with Umbric being a traitor/sleeper agent: he works for us. As in he literally is one of our errand boys. I don't see Blizzard taking away one of our mission table followers, and it would be super-awkward for me to get back from his betrayal quest/scenario/what-have-you and then turn him around so that he can go investigate the barrens and bring home a Tiragarde Sound Commendation.

Other than that, it's great.
In the same vein, the whole faction Zuldazar assault would arguably have to be redone Alliance-side, since multiple associated WQ's involve helping Umbric and he's the questgiver for the finale.
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  #341  
Old 05-28-2019, 12:05 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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I could see this happening, only with Umbric and his followers being unwilling pawns themselves instead of traitors. Somehow can't see that part happening at this point.
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  #342  
Old 05-28-2019, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
...........



I like it. I do. There's one issue that's bothering me with Umbric being a traitor/sleeper agent: he works for us. As in he literally is one of our errand boys. I don't see Blizzard taking away one of our mission table followers, and it would be super-awkward for me to get back from his betrayal quest/scenario/what-have-you and then turn him around so that he can go investigate the barrens and bring home a Tiragarde Sound Commendation.

Other than that, it's great.
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In the same vein, the whole faction Zuldazar assault would arguably have to be redone Alliance-side, since multiple associated WQ's involve helping Umbric and he's the questgiver for the finale.
Those are in the past, isn't that how things always worked?

Besides, Umbric is the only named void elf we interact with, there's no other possible traitor.
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  #343  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:35 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Those are in the past, isn't that how things always worked?

Besides, Umbric is the only named void elf we interact with, there's no other possible traitor.
I think a slip in control would be simpler and easier to pull off than treason.
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  #344  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
I think a slip in control would be simpler and easier to pull off than treason.
He being evil from the start makes more sense to me. His behavior is too good to be true.

And that N’Zoth icon on their tabard isn’t there by coincidence.

As for him as errand boy, maybe after completing his quest you replace him with a new follower?
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  #345  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:54 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
This is a theory of mine about how Blizzard may actually planned to deal with the high elf issue:

I started with the following premises:
- The lack of void elf development is intentional
- The little we have of void elf lore right now hints at a story direction
- Void elves were introduced for a purpose in BfA's story
- Void elves were made out of blood elves for a reason
- Blizzard don't talk about high elves not because they don't have plans, but because they won't spoil the story

Ok, then I elaborated each premise with a possible outcome:
- Void elves lack development because Blizzard does not want us to get too attached to Umbric and his group.
- Alliance seeing Umbric being all polite and helpful while knowing next to nothing about void elves, while the Horde only sees void elves going crazy about feeding souls to the void or summoning void creatures is intentional: they are hiding their true nature to the Alliance.
- Since the void elves' purpose has not been disclosed so far, they must be important in the ending of BfA.
- Void elves were made out of blood elves because there would be no reason for general high elf population to be converted willingly. However, the current void elf origin does not make them a true race.
- Blizzard had plans for high elves from the start, and that means becoming void elves unwillingly.

Put all together, and I ended up with this theory:
- Last patch will involve high elves and void elves working together. Probably a Quel'thalas battle or something, that will make most high elves be rallied to fight.
- Umbric is a traitor, as are most of the void elves. "The boy king serves at the master's table" because the Alliance has been an unwitting paw of the void. The ren'dorei will do a Wrathgate-like event of treason, and spring a trap to high elves.
- Alliance heroes stops the transformation of the high elves, but it's too late, they are all transformed. We deal with Umbric somehow (either questline or raid boss), but now the high elves are almost entirely turned into void elves. This second generation of void elves now have numbers to be considered race, and is comprised mostly of elves that never wanted to deal with the void, adding a tragic element to their story. Void elf culture must now cope with that betrayal and the Alliance being wary of them.

My fears can be placated enough if that comes with more "high elf-like" customization representing this "second generation", and, more importantly, if the story is well-handled and done with the proper care for the fans and respect to the character's involved.

Of course, this is all theory, and depends entirely on all premises being true, but I think it fits very well as the easiest to implement (but probably hardest to sell) "solution" to the high elf controversy.
I don't think we will see Umbric becoming an antagonist, at least not anytime soon.

Althought I do think that theory of yours might end up happening, just with another person as the lead.
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  #346  
Old 05-30-2019, 01:34 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Sorry, Deicide, but making the void race be evil and corrupted would be kind of lame.
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  #347  
Old 05-30-2019, 08:23 AM
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Sorry, Deicide, but making the void race be evil and corrupted would be kind of lame.
Yeah, it'd be so unoriginal and expected that in the end I wouldn't like that either. Though I'd like to see more Alliance members being suspicious of them, and maybe - just maybe - a questline where a high-ranking Void Elf falls prey to darkness and the player needs to find some sort of unorthodox cure for his/her mind.
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  #348  
Old 05-30-2019, 08:01 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Honestly they have a perfectly good conflict seeded for them. They are made to be foil to the Born Again Light Worshipping Blood Elves. The Blood Elves are inherently prejudiced against them, but there are good reasons for that.

Perhaps Alleria, Umbric, and the Void Elves are going to screw up Lor’themar’s tacit cooperation. Throw the burgeoning Anti-Sylvanas coalition into chaos.
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  #349  
Old 05-31-2019, 04:31 AM
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Since Blood Elves can have golden eyes now, I really don‘t see a reason to implement High Elves.
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  #350  
Old 05-31-2019, 05:37 AM
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