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  #3876  
Old 03-11-2014, 04:42 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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So true it hurts.
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  #3877  
Old 03-11-2014, 05:09 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
That's precisly what the communists want you to think! They are very very sneaky.... very sneaky...
You could be right, Comrade. That would explain why my father wants me to read Marx.
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  #3878  
Old 03-11-2014, 06:48 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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You could be right, Comrade. That would explain why my father wants me to read Marx.
Everyone should read the mad thoughts of influential villains to understand them. Ignorance is evil, afterall.
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  #3879  
Old 03-11-2014, 08:43 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
You could be right, Comrade. That would explain why my father wants me to read Marx.
I liked him better as a 80's soft pop musician....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...food-shortages

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...rming-22839674

Congrats Canada, you have officially joined the US as the nefarious behind the scene manipulators of the food shortages in Venezuela!

Evidently the protests are still going on, they've just added the chronic food shortages to the list of things that Venezuelans are upset about.
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  #3880  
Old 03-11-2014, 09:18 AM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
I liked him better as a 80's soft pop musician....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...food-shortages

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...rming-22839674

Congrats Canada, you have officially joined the US as the nefarious behind the scene manipulators of the food shortages in Venezuela!

Evidently the protests are still going on, they've just added the chronic food shortages to the list of things that Venezuelans are upset about.
Maduro announced a rations' system. Like Cuba.
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  #3881  
Old 03-11-2014, 10:12 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/TZ10pxY.jpg[IMG]
Ohhh, tell me about how threatened Russian people are in Ukraine.


(I don't know if people got it by now, but I am exactly one of those Russian-speaking Ukrainians Putin declares to protect. I want no "protection" of his)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
Crimean independence referendum will illegal, because they need acknowledgement from the central gov't. Territorial integrity is above self-determination in International law (but of course, States tend to forgot about that in some cases for convenience, like in Kosovo).

Precisely because of Kosovo, Russia says the West are hipocrits when they proclaim international law regardidng Crimean's referendum.

The funny thing is that if Crimea is annexed to Russia, this will likely end with the world divided between those who will accept the annexation and those wo won't (just like Kosovo's acceptance as an independent state by the international community).
Well, Ukraine recognized neither NATO's Kosovo, nor Russia's Osetia and Abkhazia, so you can't call us hypocrites. Dangerous precedent and all that...

Last edited by Kir the Wizard; 03-11-2014 at 10:14 AM..
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  #3882  
Old 03-11-2014, 10:50 AM
Zato Zato is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Well, Ukraine recognized neither NATO's Kosovo, nor Russia's Osetia and Abkhazia, so you can't call us hypocrites. Dangerous precedent and all that...
Oh, Kir, can you tell us about your new Donetsk's governor, Sergey Taruta?
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  #3883  
Old 03-11-2014, 11:18 AM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Well, Ukraine recognized neither NATO's Kosovo, nor Russia's Osetia and Abkhazia, so you can't call us hypocrites. Dangerous precedent and all that...
When I referred to the West, I meant USA and some of the UE countries, of course. I'm not calling Ukrainians hypocrites; the central gov't resistance to the referendum is legal, as I said.

However, both Russia and some of the Western countries have been hypocrites. (At this point the only thing that makes Kosovo more legitimate is the opinion of the ICJ, who said the independence was legal).
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  #3884  
Old 03-11-2014, 11:21 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
This seems to forget all the people who made a fuss about those wars.
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  #3885  
Old 03-11-2014, 11:49 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
Everyone should read the mad thoughts of influential villains to understand them. Ignorance is evil, afterall.
But what if we become the villain?
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #3886  
Old 03-11-2014, 12:01 PM
Korath Korath is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Ohhh, tell me about how threatened Russian people are in Ukraine.


(I don't know if people got it by now, but I am exactly one of those Russian-speaking Ukrainians Putin declares to protect. I want no "protection" of his)



Well, Ukraine recognized neither NATO's Kosovo, nor Russia's Osetia and Abkhazia, so you can't call us hypocrites. Dangerous precedent and all that...
Hey Kir : I heard that the Cossacks have been let wild in Crimea. Is that true ? And How are the things going in Donetsk ?
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  #3887  
Old 03-11-2014, 12:10 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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Originally Posted by Korath View Post
Hey Kir : I heard that the Cossacks have been let wild in Crimea. Is that true ? And How are the things going in Donetsk ?
I'm fairly certain that the Kuban Cossacks are out and about in the Crimea.
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  #3888  
Old 03-11-2014, 12:12 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Dude are you safe in Ukraine?
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  #3889  
Old 03-11-2014, 12:17 PM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Ohhh, tell me about how threatened Russian people are in Ukraine.


(I don't know if people got it by now, but I am exactly one of those Russian-speaking Ukrainians Putin declares to protect. I want no "protection" of his)



Well, Ukraine recognized neither NATO's Kosovo, nor Russia's Osetia and Abkhazia, so you can't call us hypocrites. Dangerous precedent and all that...
If you're able to, would you like to maybe enlighten SoL and give us a better explanation as what is happening in Ukraine? You, as Russian-talking Ukrainier, surely must know more.
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  #3890  
Old 03-11-2014, 12:29 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Zato View Post
Oh, Kir, can you tell us about your new Donetsk's governor, Sergey Taruta?
Well, he's a fifty-meters tall, flaming sign telling you exactly who financed all of the ex-Opposition. As in: our very own oligarchs, and no "evil hand of the West". Said oligarchs all supported Yanukovich's rise to power (even the usually pro-Orange Poroshenko's "5th Channel" seemed quite friendly to Yanuk on 2009), but felt incredibly cheated when their expenses on him ended up wasted and Yanuk started to create his own oligarch clan ("The Family"). Yanuk's own greediness ended up isolating him from the major levers of power.

Taruta precisely was (actually is?) the boss of the Industrial Alliance of Donbass, one of the major nineties' rogues-turned-business powers in the region, alongside System Capital Management belonging to Rinat Akhmetov, the wealthiest man in Ukraine. Taruta and Akhmetov are close friends and partners, both own Donetsk's two football clubs (Taruta's "Metalurg" and Akhmetov's "Shakhtar"). Some would even call Taruta Akhmetov's right hand man, but I'll just say that the two share interests.

Being oligarchs, the two already control Donetsk Region's economy, and, naturally, economy dictates politics, so it is quite hard to get into power in the region without having the oligarchs' support. Yanukovich's Party of Regions had this support for quite some time until recent events which I described.

Funnily, as soon as Taruta and Akhmetov came back from Kyiv, our mayor Olexander Lukyanchenko instantly started anti-riot rhetorics (whereas earlier he was singing to the choir) and everyone's got their long-suspended paychecks and pensions! Money suddenly found.

From the way Taruta governed so far he seems... strangely police-state rightist? He ended up quietly, but effectively registering the crimes and then taking down the main organizers of the "seps" one by one, and actually cleaned up after them so hard that today all tent camps are gone. I think they'll return, but today's been safe and sound.

Economically, I can't judge his governance right now, but, as I said, we got our payments. Strictly speaking, I never had a problem with any of Donetsk's governors, largely from the fact that I live in, well, Donetsk itself. Their modus operandi have always been keeping Donetsk and some other large cities rich and happy, while small towns and villages are poor and shitty. I doubt Maidan, or anything but the rise of Lyashko-level village radical party to the power is going to change that. Yatsenyuk also promised "The Effective Village" during the last presidential campaign, but he's a liar and a hypocrite no better than Yanuk himself.

Overall, Dnepropetrovsk and Donetsk are now under "Direct Oligarchate".
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  #3891  
Old 03-11-2014, 02:49 PM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
This seems to forget all the people who made a fuss about those wars.
It forgets a lot of things, it's a pretty dumb picture.
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  #3892  
Old 03-11-2014, 03:01 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Ragemantle View Post
It forgets a lot of things, it's a pretty dumb picture.
It is almost like the world is full of many different kinds of individuals with different opinions. Decision makers can not make everyone happy.
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  #3893  
Old 03-11-2014, 03:15 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Originally Posted by Ragemantle View Post
It forgets a lot of things, it's a pretty dumb picture.
Very simplistic, indeed.
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  #3894  
Old 03-11-2014, 03:31 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
It is almost like the world is full of many different kinds of individuals with different opinions. Decision makers can not make everyone happy.
I think you're in agreement with Ragemantle and I. The picture is dumb because it ignores most of the data.
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  #3895  
Old 03-11-2014, 03:41 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Well, he's a fifty-meters tall, flaming sign telling you exactly who financed all of the ex-Opposition. As in: our very own oligarchs, and no "evil hand of the West". Said oligarchs all supported Yanukovich's rise to power (even the usually pro-Orange Poroshenko's "5th Channel" seemed quite friendly to Yanuk on 2009), but felt incredibly cheated when their expenses on him ended up wasted and Yanuk started to create his own oligarch clan ("The Family"). Yanuk's own greediness ended up isolating him from the major levers of power.

Taruta precisely was (actually is?) the boss of the Industrial Alliance of Donbass, one of the major nineties' rogues-turned-business powers in the region, alongside System Capital Management belonging to Rinat Akhmetov, the wealthiest man in Ukraine. Taruta and Akhmetov are close friends and partners, both own Donetsk's two football clubs (Taruta's "Metalurg" and Akhmetov's "Shakhtar"). Some would even call Taruta Akhmetov's right hand man, but I'll just say that the two share interests.

Being oligarchs, the two already control Donetsk Region's economy, and, naturally, economy dictates politics, so it is quite hard to get into power in the region without having the oligarchs' support. Yanukovich's Party of Regions had this support for quite some time until recent events which I described.

Funnily, as soon as Taruta and Akhmetov came back from Kyiv, our mayor Olexander Lukyanchenko instantly started anti-riot rhetorics (whereas earlier he was singing to the choir) and everyone's got their long-suspended paychecks and pensions! Money suddenly found.

From the way Taruta governed so far he seems... strangely police-state rightist? He ended up quietly, but effectively registering the crimes and then taking down the main organizers of the "seps" one by one, and actually cleaned up after them so hard that today all tent camps are gone. I think they'll return, but today's been safe and sound.

Economically, I can't judge his governance right now, but, as I said, we got our payments. Strictly speaking, I never had a problem with any of Donetsk's governors, largely from the fact that I live in, well, Donetsk itself. Their modus operandi have always been keeping Donetsk and some other large cities rich and happy, while small towns and villages are poor and shitty. I doubt Maidan, or anything but the rise of Lyashko-level village radical party to the power is going to change that. Yatsenyuk also promised "The Effective Village" during the last presidential campaign, but he's a liar and a hypocrite no better than Yanuk himself.

Overall, Dnepropetrovsk and Donetsk are now under "Direct Oligarchate".
Sums up the information I've gotten. Good to know my sources are still sound.
I wonder what the Maidan people really think about the Oligarchs still being in powwer,, the ones they wanted to remove.
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  #3896  
Old 03-11-2014, 05:21 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
Sums up the information I've gotten. Good to know my sources are still sound.
I wonder what the Maidan people really think about the Oligarchs still being in powwer,, the ones they wanted to remove.
The Oligarchs, though, have decent ideas. They are focused on profit, no doubt. They realise their industries are uncompetitive on the global market because of false reliance on Russia as an export market, and that they are at the mercy of Russia in this regard. They know that if they join the EU, or at least sign some sort of agreement, modernisation of their industries and the political system will inevitably follow. This will result in more profit for them, industries which do not rely on Russia and which are competitive, and more security for their investments.
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  #3897  
Old 03-11-2014, 05:23 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by Eagan View Post
The Oligarchs, though, have decent ideas. They are focused on profit, no doubt. They realise their industries are uncompetitive on the global market because of false reliance on Russia as an export market, and that they are at the mercy of Russia in this regard. They know that if they join the EU, or at least sign some sort of agreement, modernisation of their industries and the political system will inevitably follow. This will result in more profit for them, industries which do not rely on Russia and which are competitive, and more security for their investments.
They're still the main source of corruption in Ukraine, the main reason for the more violent protests.
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  #3898  
Old 03-11-2014, 05:39 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
They're still the main source of corruption in Ukraine, the main reason for the more violent protests.
And yet, they were the main reason President Y fell.
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  #3899  
Old 03-11-2014, 05:57 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Ousted Ukrainian leader warns of civil war; Russia adds to forces


I don't think Putin is the kind of guy that can be bought over with friendship.
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  #3900  
Old 03-11-2014, 08:17 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Serious Question:

After this is all said and done, however it turns out, will the Ukraine think about joining NATO or pray that Putin doesn't get anymore grabby?
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