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  #26  
Old 01-04-2015, 05:42 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Now that's much better. Except the fact that Gilneas already is Alliance. Replace it by Hillsbrad.
Gilneas is alliance in name only, they don't hold it militarily currently even if they should.

The Forsaken are too entrenched in Hillsbrad to realistically lose it right now.
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  #27  
Old 01-04-2015, 05:47 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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I don't see with the Horde should get Night Elves lands (Feralas) in exchange for Alliance getting back Alliance lands. The Horde should get back a zone that pretty much always should have been theirs and that is Thousand Needles.
The Hinterlands was never "Alliance."

Second, I don't see why the Horde should relinquish control of fertile lands (Arathi, Hillsbrad, etc.) in exchange for some big lake with rocks in it. If the Alliance are going to reclaim lands that never belonged to them (Hinterlands), I fully expect the Horde to do the same. If the Alliance expect to take healthy, green lands then I think the Horde would be retarded not to do the same.

Why should the Horde spend resources trying to capture a worthless salt lake from goblins, gnomes, pirates, and Grimtotems, when a much more valuable prize is right there? The Horde have as much of a presence in Feralas as the Alliance. Several tauren camps as well as an ogre stronghold. The night elves would do better to strengthen their grip on the lands closer to their capital than waste their efforts on lands closer to the Horde capitals.
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  #28  
Old 01-04-2015, 05:50 PM
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Yeah, because at the time you quoted me, I was totally talking about Hinterlands...

Hinterlands is the balance for Dustwallow.
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  #29  
Old 01-04-2015, 05:57 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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The Hinterlands was never "Alliance."

Second, I don't see why the Horde should relinquish control of fertile lands (Arathi, Hillsbrad, etc.) in exchange for some big lake with rocks in it. If the Alliance are going to reclaim lands that never belonged to them (Hinterlands), I fully expect the Horde to do the same. If the Alliance expect to take healthy, green lands then I think the Horde would be retarded not to do the same.

Why should the Horde spend resources trying to capture a worthless salt lake from goblins, gnomes, pirates, and Grimtotems, when a much more valuable prize is right there? The Horde have as much of a presence in Feralas as the Alliance. Several tauren camps as well as an ogre stronghold. The night elves would do better to strengthen their grip on the lands closer to their capital than waste their efforts on lands closer to the Horde capitals.
Thousand Needles won't always be worthless, it's oil rich, likely rich in other minerals, and could be converted to a sizeable port.


Frankly it's not realistic for the Horde to project that much power into Feralas at this point. The land's steeped in Green Dragons, Highborne Ruins, Mountain Giants, Treants, etc...

With the Ogres it can be contested but the Tauren likely aren't going to commit to a heavy offensive.

Frankly I think that it, like Hillsbrad or Un'goro, could be addressed later, but as a counterpart to the situation I've proposed in the Eastern Kingdoms Feralas doesn't fit well.
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  #30  
Old 01-04-2015, 05:57 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Yeah, because at the time you quoted me, I was totally talking about Hinterlands...

Hinterlands is the balance for Dustwallow.
Does it matter? You were in agreement of the Alliance taking Hinterlands like two posts after you made the post that I quoted. Not only that, but I had quoted you after reading that post and responded with that post in mind.

Balance for Dustwallow? So the Alliance get an entire lush region filled with Horde members while the Horde claims some shitty swamp that doesn't even have an Alliance presence anymore. Yeah, great balance. And you wonder why I call for the Horde to conquer Feralas.

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Thousand Needles won't always be worthless, it's oil rich, likely rich in other minerals, and could be converted to a sizeable port.


Frankly it's not realistic for the Horde to project that much power into Feralas at this point. The land's steeped in Green Dragons, Highborne Ruins, Mountain Giants, Treants, etc...

With the Ogres it can be contested but the Tauren likely aren't going to commit to a heavy offensive.

Frankly I think that it, like Hillsbrad or Un'goro, could be addressed later, but as a counterpart to the situation I've proposed in the Eastern Kingdoms Feralas doesn't fit well.
Where are you going to build this port? Why should the Horde waste their time trying to capture it now when, according to you, it won't be worth something until later? Is someone going to place an army there soon? Why does it need to be captured immediately? It is only inhabited by a gnome/goblin speedbarge, pirates, and Grimtotems. It can be claimed at any time.

Most of those threats have been dealt with or aren't really threats in the first place. We know the orcs wiped out the primals and the breakers in the original timeline. What are a few treants and mountain giants against the might of the Horde?

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  #31  
Old 01-04-2015, 06:01 PM
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Does it matter? You were in agreement of the Alliance taking Hinterlands like two posts after you made the post that I quoted. Not only that, but I had quoted you after reading that post and responded with that post in mind.

Balance for Dustwallow? So the Alliance get an entire lush region filled with Horde members while the Horde claims some shitty swamp that doesn't even have an Alliance presence anymore. Yeah, great balance. And you wonder why I call for the Horde to conquer Feralas.
No Allaince presence anymore because the Horde killed them all in a brutish way, perhaps? Seems like a good tradeoff.
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  #32  
Old 01-04-2015, 06:08 PM
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Get me a true cataclysm, and I'll show you the perfect Sylvanas solution. Destroy everything, make old content accessible some way, for gameplay purposes only, and the survivors get to settle some new world. No more Lordaeron, no more Sylvanas problem.
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  #33  
Old 01-04-2015, 06:11 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Where are you going to build this port? Why should the Horde waste their time trying to capture it now when, according to you, it won't be worth something until later? Is someone going to place an army there soon? Why does it need to be captured immediately? It is only inhabited by a gnome/goblin speedbarge, pirates, and Grimtotems. It can be claimed at any time.

Most of those threats have been dealt with or aren't really threats in the first place. We know the orcs wiped out the primals and the breakers in the original timeline. What are a few treants and mountain giants against the might of the Horde?
Across what are now Splithoof Heights and the Southsea Holdfast.

Because it's not wasted time, oil's a valuable resource, so is resecuring the region's wyvern nests, I'm honestly not sure what your deal is with the whole 'it can be captured at any time', that's what I'm proposing, its capture -now-. I'm not saying Feralas will never be assaulted just that it doesn't really fit with what's going on currently.


Also comparing the Primals and Breakers to the First Horde, which had allof the clans united as well as the planet weakening from widespread fel magic usage is not really the same as the modern horde which is considerably weakened by recent conflicts, and a good chunk of the forces in that region are tauren who aren't likely to commit to longterm conflict with the night elves right now.

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Get me a true cataclysm, and I'll show you the perfect Sylvanas solution. Destroy everything, make old content accessible some way, for gameplay purposes only, and the survivors get to settle some new world. No more Lordaeron, no more Sylvanas problem.
Post that in the Eastern Kingdoms thread then silly not the Kalimdor one.
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  #34  
Old 01-04-2015, 06:16 PM
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Post that in the Eastern Kingdoms thread then silly not the Kalimdor one.
Didn't know there were two of them.

It still applies here tough. When I said everything, I meant everything. The Burning Legion using their planet buster on Azeroth, like they did on Xerrath, would solve all our problems, and we'd finally have enemies that feel powerful.
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  #35  
Old 01-04-2015, 06:20 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Across what are now Splithoof Heights and the Southsea Holdfast.

Because it's not wasted time, oil's a valuable resource, so is resecuring the region's wyvern nests, I'm honestly not sure what your deal is with the whole 'it can be captured at any time', that's what I'm proposing, its capture -now-. I'm not saying Feralas will never be assaulted just that it doesn't really fit with what's going on currently.
You're talking about a few pieces of land hugging the shore of this great salty lake. These few pieces of dirt are not comparable to entire regions loaded in natural resources. Allowing the Alliance to control the entirety of Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Arathi, and the Hinterlands, in exchange for a few bluffs is not smart. Seeing how the PC has already done much of the work in 1k, why would the Horde even need to send a massive army? It's work that could be accomplished by a few grunts and a ship.

While the Horde is busy with that, the Alliance is dismantling the Horde's hold on the Eastern Kingdoms, claiming lands rich in lumber, ore, and game, and further cementing their position as "Azeroth's sole superpower." For the Horde, that's bad news. Which is precisely why the Horde would be brain-dead to let the Alliance do such a thing while they focus on some salt cliffs in Kalimdor's buttcrack.
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  #36  
Old 01-04-2015, 06:24 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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You're talking about a few pieces of land hugging the shore of this great salty lake. These few pieces of dirt are not comparable to entire regions loaded in natural resources. Allowing the Alliance to control the entirety of Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Arathi, and the Hinterlands, in exchange for a few bluffs is not smart. Seeing how the PC has already done much of the work in 1k, why would the Horde even need to send a massive army? It's work that could be accomplished by a few grunts and a ship.

While the Horde is busy with that, the Alliance is dismantling the Horde's hold on the Eastern Kingdoms, claiming lands rich in lumber, ore, and game, and further cementing their position as "Azeroth's sole superpower." For the Horde, that's bad news. Which is precisely why the Horde would be brain-dead to let the Alliance do such a thing while they focus on some salt cliffs in Kalimdor's buttcrack.
Dude, I never said anything about a massive army for 1K needles alone. I'm done talking to you if you're just going to shove words into my mouth.

You're like Kyn in that you're super abrasive and unpleasant to discuss with.
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  #37  
Old 01-04-2015, 06:27 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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How else am I supposed to assume all these lands are being taken if not by force of arms? Like, really? Why don't you clarify instead of pussing out.
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  #38  
Old 01-04-2015, 06:27 PM
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  #39  
Old 01-04-2015, 07:54 PM
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I'm still rather confused as to why the Hinterlands would be on the table, but it's not particularly relevant to Kalimdor.

A more pertinent goal for the Horde should be to increase their presence on parts of Kalimdor which aren't held by the Alliance and never have been. This is partly why I'm so interested in the idea of having the Horde get a stronger grip on the Eastern coast of Kalimdor and into Un'Goro.

Get a deal going with the Dunemaul, Steamwheedle and Farraki to work with/for the Horde presence in Un'Goro and bring both zones to fly Horde colours. Hell, set up a sort of preferential trade deal between the Horde and Steamwheedle, and get them closer together and between Ratchet, Booty Bay, Everlook and Azshara Harbor, you've made it that no one does inter-continental business without money making its way into Horde hands.
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  #40  
Old 01-04-2015, 07:57 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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How else am I supposed to assume all these lands are being taken if not by force of arms? Like, really? Why don't you clarify instead of pussing out.
Because you're a bully and I don't owe you an explanation if you can't be halfway civil when discussing a video game.

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  #41  
Old 01-04-2015, 08:59 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Because you're a bully and I don't owe you an explanation if you can't be halfway civil when discussing a video game.
Oh, please. If you're going to be a big sensitive crybaby about things then I thank you for sparing me a discussion with you.
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  #42  
Old 01-04-2015, 09:04 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Oh, please. If you're going to be a big sensitive crybaby about things then I thank you for sparing me a discussion with you.
I wish I could help you or that someone else could but sadly I don't think it's ever going to happen.
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  #43  
Old 01-04-2015, 09:11 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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I wish I could help you or that someone else could but sadly I don't think it's ever going to happen.


I'll remember to put up a trigger warning next time.
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  #44  
Old 01-04-2015, 09:14 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I'll remember to put up a trigger warning next time.
Why do you make this about me being "too sensitive"?

You're not fun to talk to, I opt not to talk to you, and you get all bothered because you feel entitled to be able to talk to people however you want to.

You're the one being sensitive and entitled here.
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  #45  
Old 01-04-2015, 09:22 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Why do you make this about me being "too sensitive"?

You're not fun to talk to, I opt not to talk to you, and you get all bothered because you feel entitled to be able to talk to people however you want to.

You're the one being sensitive and entitled here.
Post #29. You initiated conversation. Not me. If you don't want to talk to me: don't respond to my fucking posts. You quoted me and I replied. If you don't want to talk to me, that's fine. I don't give two shits. Really, I don't. But that's not what happened. You suddenly decide "I don't want to talk to you because reasons" and then you try to pin me as the one starting something.

Don't sit here and play the victim. If you don't want to talk to me, then don't. Ignore me. That's what the function is for.
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  #46  
Old 01-04-2015, 09:25 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Am I the only one that thought Frostwolves icon was some weird thing with a helmet with antlers and not an orc riding a wolf?

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It could of been like a boss from that game Castle Crashers with the big and long heads.

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  #47  
Old 01-04-2015, 09:29 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Post #29. You initiated conversation. Not me. If you don't want to talk to me: don't respond to my fucking posts. You quoted me and I replied. If you don't want to talk to me, that's fine. I don't give two shits. Really, I don't. But that's not what happened. You suddenly decide "I don't want to talk to you because reasons" and then you try to pin me as the one starting something.

Don't sit here and play the victim. If you don't want to talk to me, then don't. Ignore me. That's what the function is for.
That's because I'm fine talking to you if you can be civil.

But as time passes it becomes apparent you're not interested in a civil discussion.

And that's where I decide to bow out, because it's not fun, it's not relaxing and it's not interesting.

And that's where I get annoyed because you decide to insult me for it and act like I've somehow wronged you, like I owe you a discussion just because I was speaking with you up till then.

I am free to initiate and stop conversation at my own discretion, I owe you nothing.

If the fact that your behavior causes people to stop associating with you bothers you perhaps that's something you need to reflect on.

I'm not the one playing the victim, you are. I "wronged" you somehow by deciding not to sit here and let you tell me how stupid I am for not seeing videogame lore the same way you do.

I'm willing to talk this out with you man, but I'm not going to discuss videogames with you only for you to accuse me of "pussing out" if I don't enjoy you acting like it's somehow my fault you're making assumptions and being generally unpleasant.
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  #48  
Old 01-04-2015, 09:36 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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That's because I'm fine talking to you if you can be civil.

But as time passes it becomes apparent you're not interested in a civil discussion.

And that's where I decide to bow out, because it's not fun, it's not relaxing and it's not interesting.

And that's where I get annoyed because you decide to insult me for it and act like I've somehow wronged you, like I owe you a discussion just because I was speaking with you up till then.

I am free to initiate and stop conversation at my own discretion, I owe you nothing.

If the fact that your behavior causes people to stop associating with you bothers you perhaps that's something you need to reflect on.

I'm not the one playing the victim, you are. I "wronged" you somehow by deciding not to sit here and let you tell me how stupid I am for not seeing videogame lore the same way you do.

I'm willing to talk this out with you man, but I'm not going to discuss videogames with you only for you to accuse me of "pussing out" if I don't enjoy you acting like it's somehow my fault you're making assumptions and being generally unpleasant.
Oh, my god. When does it end? All this self-righteous fluff. You may not enjoy discussing video games with me but you sure like propping yourself up and reminding me you don't owe me a discussion or explanation while providing me with discussion and an explanation. Like, dude. You already said you didn't want to talk to me. So, why are you? Do you get off on this preachy "my body, my rules" bullshit?

I don't care about talking this out with you. I don't get off on this victimwank bullshit. If my words on the internet trigger your self-diagnosed PTSD then by all means use the ignore function.
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  #49  
Old 01-04-2015, 09:42 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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  #50  
Old 01-04-2015, 09:52 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Oh, my god. When does it end? All this self-righteous fluff. You may not enjoy discussing video games with me but you sure like propping yourself up and reminding me you don't owe me a discussion or explanation while providing me with discussion and an explanation. Like, dude. You already said you didn't want to talk to me. So, why are you? Do you get off on this preachy "my body, my rules" bullshit?

I don't care about talking this out with you. I don't get off on this victimwank bullshit. If my words on the internet trigger your self-diagnosed PTSD then by all means use the ignore function.
Dude it's not about me or PTSD or whatever the hell, I get it, You think I'm weak or whiny or whatever the hell and that "offends" you because if I'd lived a "real" life like you and had "real" problems I wouldn't be this way.

I'm not trying to be self righteous I'm a tired antisocial jerk.

I'm hoping I can get you to tone it the fuck down so I can have my goddamn thread discussions in peace since even if I ignore you I'm going to have to talk around you in the thread.

Man I just don't know what the fuck to about you, I wanna talk about the lore and have a good time.
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